Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
- - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-08 16:00
I just received a note from a moderator that a post of mine had been deleted "because personal insults are not permitted."  What a hoot.  If you look through the threads I have been participating in, I have been called about every name in the book, with nary a post going MIA.  I have no idea what I wrote that would be objectionable, particularly if it was compared to what has been sent my way.  However, I suppose this is _one_ way to slowly quash the Rybka discussions.   Which is fine by me.  I've not whined to the moderators one time in response to all the insults hurled my way.  In any case, perhaps it _is_ time to slow down (or go away) here, since this is a new "low" in quashing discussion...

Obviously the "process" will continue.  And the "discussions" will continue elsewhere.  And you can live in a "sanitized" world here oblivious to what is really happening in computer chess...
Parent - - By h.g.muller (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-08 16:07 Edited 2011-08-08 16:09
Your stamina in this has been remarkable, and frankly I wonder what makes you waste your time on these people... By now you must be bored stiff seeing the same mindless comments time after time after time... Surely you must have more important and /or pleasant things to do!

If you really can't thinkof anything, you could always make a version of Crafty that plays Spartan Chess.:wink:

Parent - - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 13:52
H.G. Muller, you have made my history book as the #1 endorser of Computer Chess Variants of our times!! :grin:  I think I will have to play me a game of Spartan Chess now (soooon)! :surprised:  You know I got me a disk for the Zillions of Games a few months back I will have to find. :cool:
Parent - - By h.g.muller (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-09 19:12
Well, Fairy-Max plays it too (under WinBoard). :cool: Not to  forget Daniel Shawul's Nebiyu engine, which really whips Fairy-Max.
Parent - - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 19:43
So I clicked on:
"Download WinBoard 4.5 installer (2.9MB)"

from here:
http://www.open-aurec.com/wbforum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=51528

And how do I load eg. Fairy-Max or Stockfish, or Critter, or Komodo to do analysis with Chess positions in WinBoard 4.5.2?

> Daniel Shawul's Nebiyu engine


Do you have an important irect link for this or shall I search Google?
Parent - - By h.g.muller (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-10 11:27 Edited 2011-08-10 11:36
Fairy-Max is already included in the install; You should even find it in the WinBoard group of the Windows start menu, under Chess Engines. To play Spartan Chess with it, just select "Spartan" from the File -> New Variant menu of WinBoard.

Unfortunately WinBoard 4.5.2 does not have a Load Engine dialog yet, and you would have to type the engine line in the edit box you get from the Engine -> Install 1st (or 2nd) menu. The line for an UCI engine would have to look similar to that of the (pre-installed) Fruit:

"ENGINE.exe" /fd="ENGINEFOLDER" /fUCI

where ENGINE.exe is the name of the executable (e.g. Houdini_1.5a_w32.exe or something like that), and ENGINEFOLDER is where you have it in your file system (e.g. "C:\\Chess\Engines\Houdini"). The quotes around the names are only required if the names conatin spaces (which in Windows is frequently the case...) After you added this to the list, you should be able to select it from a combobox when you start WinBoard through its Startup dialog (for which there also is a menu item in the Windows Start menu.)

If you think this is too cumbersome, I can recommend the WinBoard-4.5-TM version (downloadable from http://hgm.nubati.net/WinBoard-4.5TM.exe ); there you can simply load new engines by browsing to them from a menu dialog:



This version also allows you to change engine during the session (in 4.5.2 you must choose one at startup, and then you are stuck with it...), and has a built in tournament manager.

I don't have a link handy for Nebiyu, but if you Google for Nebiyu + Shawul you will find it immediately. (I do host a combined Nebiyu + WinBoard package, but if you already have another WinBoard installed, they might mess each other up. Although I think I took care to rename the WinBoard executable in that install to something else. Anyway, that can be found at http://hgm.nubati.net/WinBoard-Nebiyu.exe .)
Parent - - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-12 23:00

> If you think this is too cumbersome, I can recommend the WinBoard-4.5-TM version (downloadable from http://hgm.nubati.net/WinBoard-4.5TM.exe ); there you can simply load new engines by browsing to them from a menu dialog:


I took this option H.G..  Thank-you for recommending it.

Okay, well I just played Fairy-Max vs Fairy-Max in Spartan Chess.  White won and it was a very strange game.  Wild...

[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2011.08.12"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Fairy-Max 4.8R"]
[Black "Fairy-Max 4.8R"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
[Variant "spartan"]
[Annotator "1. -0.72   1... +0.95"]

1. d3 {-0.72/8} Hef6 {+0.95/8 14} 2. Nc3 {-0.75/8 6} Lc6 {+1.05/8 7} 3. h4
{-0.70/8 7} Cd6 {+0.94/8 4} 4. Nf3 {-0.78/8 6} Cee6 {+0.91/9 12} 5. g4
{-0.82/8 5} Hbd5 {+0.87/9 12} 6. Bg2 {-0.73/8 6} Hc5 {+0.71/8 5} 7. O-O
{-0.58/8 6} We7 {+0.83/8 5} 8. e4 {-0.71/8 11} Hhg6 {+0.77/7 6} 9. exd5
{-0.48/8 5} Cxd5 {+0.45/9 4} 10. h5 {-0.40/9 8} Lg8 {+0.30/8 6} 11. h6
{-0.25/8 5} Hdf5 {+0.14/7 4} 12. a3 {+0.03/8 21} Hg5 {+0.02/6 4} 13. Nxd5
{-0.10/9 22} Lxd5 {-0.04/9 6} 14. Nh4 {+0.09/8 5} Hxg4 {-0.19/9 4} 15. Bxd5
{+0.11/9 6} Wxd5 {-0.41/10 4} 16. Nxf5 {+0.46/10 7} Hf6 {-0.45/10 10} 17.
Ne3 {+0.39/10 6} Wc6 {-0.46/10 7} 18. Qxg4 {+0.41/9 4} We5 {-0.40/9 4} 19.
Qd1 {+0.48/9 4} Wd6 {-0.50/9 6} 20. Rb1 {+0.47/8 3} Lh7 {-0.48/9 7} 21. Bd2
{+0.49/8 4} Gb5 {-0.42/9 10} 22. f4 {+0.41/8 3} Hf5 {-0.42/9 7} 23. Nd5
{+0.39/8 4} Gc6 {-0.40/9 20} 24. Qf3 {+0.40/9 6} Wb5 {-0.40/8 4} 25. Bc3
{+0.32/9 12} Lg6 {-0.31/8 5} 26. Qh1 {+0.42/8 3} Gd6 {-0.42/8 4} 27. Ne3
{+0.41/8 4} Gd8 {-0.42/8 4} 28. Rbe1 {+0.40/8 6} Wc6 {-0.45/8 4} 29. Qh2
{+0.44/8 4} Cd6 {-0.50/8 7} 30. Ng4 {+0.52/8 4} Lh7 {-0.52/9 5} 31. Ne5
{+0.44/9 5} Wd5 {-0.48/9 9} 32. Bb4 {+0.65/9 5} He6 {-0.69/8 4} 33. Ng4
{+0.58/10 7} Wb7 {-0.63/9 4} 34. c3 {+0.46/9 5} Ke7 {-0.50/8 4} 35. Qh4
{+0.35/9 5} Gg8 {-0.29/9 6} 36. d4 {+0.32/9 4} Cd5 {-0.32/9 4} 37. Re3
{+0.39/9 7} Cb5 {-0.40/9 14} 38. dxc5 {+0.32/9 4} Cxc5 {-0.40/9 4} 39. Rg3
{+0.38/10 7} Gf8 {-0.39/9 4} 40. Nf2 {+0.42/9 4} Hd6 {-0.49/9 3} 41. Nh3
{+0.55/10 5} Hxf4 {-0.61/10 9} 42. Nxf4 {+0.56/10 7} Ce5 {-0.45/10 16} 43.
Ng6 {+0.49/9 7} Lxg6 {-0.59/11 6} 44. Rxg6 {+0.68/10 5} We4 {-0.78/10 6}
45. Rg4 {+1.06/10 5} Wh7 {-1.09/10 5} 46. Rg7 {+0.89/10 8} Wd3 {-0.93/9 5}
47. Rf2 {+1.01/9 11} Hc5 {-1.06/9 13} 48. Qh1 {+1.18/9 8} Kb8 {-1.26/9 6}
49. Qg2 {+1.01/9 6} Kf7 {-1.15/10 7} 50. Qc6 {+1.02/10 9} We4 {-1.09/10 6}
51. Qd7 {+1.13/10 4} Ce7 {-1.15/10 15} 52. Qd4 {+1.02/11 12} Ce5
{-1.03/10 4} 53. Rg4 {+1.20/11 6} Wh7 {-1.25/11 8} 54. Bxc5 {+1.08/11 6}
Cxc5 {-1.40/12 9} 55. Qxc5 {+1.32/12 13} Gc8 {-1.33/11 7} 56. Qh5
{+1.35/11 4} Gd7 {-1.30/11 8} 57. Rfg2 {+1.74/11 10} He5 {-1.75/10 5} 58.
Rg7 {+2.32/12 6} Kxg7 {-2.76/13 5} 59. Rxg7 {+2.29/13 6} Wf6 {-2.52/13 10}
60. Qf3 {+2.56/12 5} Gxg7+ {-2.66/14 8} 61. hxg7 {+2.69/14 5} Wxg7
{-2.71/13 5} 62. Qf7 {+2.69/13 4} Wh6 {-2.92/14 7} 63. Qxe6 {+3.00/14 11}
We3+ {-3.00/14 15} 64. Kh1 {+3.14/13 18} Kb7 {-3.23/12 4} 65. Qe7+
{+3.36/12 11} Ka6 {-3.30/12 8} 66. Qxe5 {+3.26/13 10} Wf2+ {-3.38/13 7} 67.
Kg2 {+3.25/12 6} Wh4+ {-3.40/13 6} 68. Kf1 {+3.46/13 10} Wd8 {-3.54/13 7}
69. Qe2+ {+3.66/12 9} Ka7 {-3.68/12 10} 70. c4 {+3.65/13 8} Wc7
{-3.58/12 8} 71. Qe7 {+3.74/13 9} Ka8 {-3.65/12 7} 72. Qf8+ {+3.55/12 8}
Ka7 {-3.61/12 6} 73. Qg7 {+3.51/12 7} Kb8 {-3.56/12 6} 74. Qh8+
{+3.52/12 8} Ka7 {-3.64/11 4} 75. Qh7 {+3.61/13 6} Ka6 {-3.61/12 5} 76.
Qg6+ {+3.56/12 3} Ka7 {-3.88/12 20} 77. Qf7 {+3.42/12 4} Ka6 {-3.65/12 8}
78. Qf6+ {+3.50/12 8} Ka7 {-3.62/11 5} 79. Qh4 {+3.41/11 5} Kb7
{-3.56/11 5} 80. Qe4+ {+3.60/12 9} Kb8 {-3.41/11 6} 81. Qg2 {+3.18/11 4}
We5 {-3.17/12 9} 82. Qg8+ {+3.19/11 6} Kc7 {-3.30/11 7} 83. Qh7+
{+3.28/11 6} Kd6 {-3.23/11 9} 84. Qh4 {+3.27/11 4} Wd3+ {-3.30/11 5} 85.
Kg2 {+3.43/11 10} We5 {-3.65/11 6} 86. Qd8+ {+3.61/11 4} Ke6 {-3.75/11 5}
87. Qe8+ {+3.76/12 13} Kf5 {-3.78/11 11} 88. Qf8+ {+3.51/11 6} Kg5
{-3.64/11 11} 89. Qg8+ {+3.40/11 9} Kf5 {-3.54/11 9} 90. Qh7+ {+3.60/12 17}
Kg5 {-3.65/11 11} 91. Qe7+ {+3.51/12 12} Wf6 {-3.62/11 9} 92. Qe3+
{+3.56/11 4} Kf5 {-3.65/11 10} 93. Qf3+ {+3.59/11 5} Kg5 {-3.71/10 5} 94.
Qg3+ {+3.59/12 9} Kh5 {-3.69/11 8} 95. Qe1 {+3.43/11 5} Wd7 {-3.58/11 6}
96. Qd1+ {+3.54/12 14} Wg4 {-3.77/12 5} 97. Qd5+ {+3.83/12 6} Kh4
{-4.00/12 13} 98. Qe4 {+4.09/13 4} Kg5 {-9.89/16 13} 99. c5 {+3.86/13 7}
Wf5 {-4.13/12 4} 100. Qe5 {+4.37/12 5} Kg4 {-10.66/15 11} 101. c6
{+10.67/14 9} Wh4+ {-10.51/14 6} 102. Kf1 {+10.71/13 5} Wf3 {-10.63/13 4}
103. Qe6+ {+10.79/13 9} Kh4 {-10.69/12 4} 104. Qf6+ {+11.36/13 9} Wg5
{-11.29/13 6} 105. Qxg5+ {+11.37/14 6} Kxg5 {-79.74/23 5} 106. c7
{+17.64/16 6} Kh5 {-79.82/16 15} 107. c8=Q {+17.71/15 5} Kg6 {-79.93/16 18}
108. Qe6+ {+79.93/15 11} Kg7 {-79.94/15 3} 109. a4 {+79.94/16 4} Kh7
{-79.95/17 4} 110. a5 {+79.95/20 5} Kh8 {-79.96/25 3} 111. a6
{+79.96/28 1.1} Kg7 {-79.97/28 0.9} 112. a7 {+79.97/28 0.1} Kh7
{-79.98/28 0.1} 113. a8=Q {+79.98/28 0.1} Kg7 {-79.99/28 0.1} 114. Qag8#
{+79.99/28 0.1}
{Xboard adjudication: Checkmate} 1-0
:grin:

I see the Chess pieces (White) had to capture nearly all of the Spartan's pieces (Black) and I can see a little how the Spartans move, however, I will have to reread the rules for Spartan Chess pieces again from ChessVariants.com (unless you have a better site for Spartan Chess you know of :roll::smile:).
Parent - - By h.g.muller (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-13 09:24 Edited 2011-08-13 09:33
Chessvariants.com would be good enough (athough it has itsown website, http://www.spartanchessonline.com ).

Note that WinBoard can provide some assistance to the human player through the option "Highlight Dragging", (in the Options -> General menu dialog). When this is on, and also "Test Legality" (in the same dialog, but that should be on by default) WinBoard marks each square where a picked-up piece can go to by a fat yellow or red dot.



But Spartan Chess is not terribly complex; there are major pieces that move as B+N and R+K, and then there are minor pieces that move as short-range R and short-range B (only one or two squares, but allowed to jump over something in the latter case). A nice addition is that the Bishop equivalent can do a sideway non-capture step to switch to squares of the other color. And the Spartan Pawns swap straight and diagonal moves compared to FIDE Pawns.
Parent - - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-13 11:00

> But Spartan Chess is not terribly complex; there are major pieces that move as B+N and R+K, and then there are minor pieces that move as short-range R and short-range B (only one or two squares, but allowed to jump over something in the latter case). A nice addition is that the Bishop equivalent can do a sideway non-capture step to switch to squares of the other color. And the Spartan Pawns swap straight and diagonal moves compared to FIDE Pawns.


I wonder how "different" it is to implement Spartan Chess???????
I have about NO programming experience with engines, however, wouldn't at least parts of what they call the "alpha-beta search" be pretty much the same or very similar?
My view with that ZillionsOfGames engine is that it isn't that strong.  If you "taught" it to play regular Chess for instance, I doubt it would play at the level of CCRL 2800s Elo Chessmaster.  They should try to update this from the free open-source CCRL 3200s Elo Stockfish code if you want my opinion.

Perhaps when you get your website more developed we could communicate better on WinBoard and Chess Variants.  I have already found some "instabilities" ("bugs") in the program and I could post some more games or something. :grin:
Parent - By h.g.muller (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-13 20:16
You are right, a Spartan Chess engine is very similar to a normal Chess engine. All the variants Fairy-Max supports are very similar, in the sense that they use pieces that capture like normal Chess pieces (by replacement), move the same everywhere on the board (except the Pawns), and you lose by getting your royal piece checkmated. The only difference is that (some of the) pieces move differently from orthodox Chess pieces, and sometimes that the board has a different number of squares.

In Fairy-Max the 'move generator' wrks from a table that lists for each piece type in which directions it can move, and how far. So making it play a regular variant only requires altering the contents of those tables. And the tables are read from a text file when you start it up, so it is very easy for the user to define his own Chess variants, with pieces of al kind of gaits, and let Fairy-Max play those, by just editing that file. Spartan Chess required a little bit more than that: I really had to change the program in one place, to handle the 'duple check' condition. Originally Fairy-Max considered any move that exposed the royal piece to capture illegal, no matter how many royal pieces you had. I had to change that so that it keeps track of the number of pieces, and only worries when the last one is captured, or two are exposed to capture at the same time.

Fairy-Max is not "deep", if with that you mean that it can use multiple cores. It cannot even ponder. In fact Fairy-Max is one of the most simplistics programs ever written, a derivative of micro-Max, which for some time held the World record for being the smallest Chess program (source-code wise), only about 100 lines of code (less than 2000 characters). It has now been surpassed in that respect by Toledo nanoChess. Ordinary Chess programs are more like 10,000 lines of code. The main difference between micro-Max and Fairy-Max is that the latter reads its move-generator tables from a file, and allows a bit more general moves.

As a result Fairy-Max is also not very strong; on CCRL ist is rated just over 2000 Elo, (for normal Chess), while multi-core Rybka versions do 3300 or so. But that makes it much more interesting as an opponent; there is not much fun in being crushed by Rybka, Stockfish or Houdini. Fairy-Max should be beatable by a good club player that stays alert the entire game. And there is the effect that Chess players are not nearly as strong when playing variants they are not familiar with as they are with FIDE Chess. While Fairy-Max does not care at all, since it neither has knowledge for orthodox Chess, nor for the variants. Except for the piece values; it has to be told those (in the same file that specifies how the pieces move).

This is one of the differences with Zillions of Games; except from being much more general (also able to play games like Checkers, Reversi etc.), Zillions figures out the piece values for itself. It is a remarkable feat it can do this at all, but the result is not very accurate. This, and the large overhead for being so general, cause Zillions to play an estimated 300 Elo below Fairy-Max, in games that they both can do. (This has not been very accurately tested, as Zillions has no standard interface allowing it to play under WinBoard, so all games have to be played by hand. But usually Fairy-Max wins.)
Parent - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-13 11:26
Oh btw, so how was that game?  Played on AMD 955 Phenom II x4 Black at 3.2GHz. :grin:  I would guess Fairy-Max isn't "deep" though right. :red:
Anyway, I wanted to mention that I did play a game out with the Fruit 2.1 (probably also not "deep") and I would say that it did play like (a less randomized form of :razz:) Rybka imo.

Same hardware:

[Event "Computer Chess Game"]
[Site ""]
[Date "2011.08.12"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Fruit 2.1"]
[Black "Fruit 2.1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "40/300"]
[Annotator "9. +0.55   9... +0.57"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. O-O Nxe4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5
Nf5 8. Qxd8+ Kxd8 9. Rd1+ {+0.55/13 8} Ke8 {+0.57/14 8} 10. Nc3
{+0.57/14 4} Be6 {+0.47/14 8} 11. a3 {+0.50/13 12} Be7 {+0.57/13 11} 12.
Bg5 {+0.51/14 11} f6 {+0.52/13 1.2} 13. Bf4 {+0.51/14 10} fxe5 {+0.47/13 9}
14. Bxe5 {+0.48/14 2.0} Rc8 {+0.53/14 9} 15. Re1 {+0.55/14 2.0} Kf7
{+0.51/13 9} 16. Bf4 {+0.51/13 2.7} Nd6 {+0.51/12 9} 17. Ne5+ {+0.57/12 3}
Kf6 {+0.65/12 8} 18. h4 {+0.60/12 28} h6 {+0.85/12 10} 19. h5
{+0.81/12 1.4} Rhe8 {+0.87/12 7} 20. g4 {+0.95/13 5} Bd8 {+0.96/12 4} 21.
Rad1 {+1.22/12 5} a6 {-1.22/12 16} 22. Rd3 {+1.28/12 23} g5 {-1.65/13 41}
23. hxg6 {+1.65/11 3} Kg7 {-1.65/13 6} 24. Rde3 {+1.59/12 8} Bf6
{-1.58/13 1.4} 25. Na4 {+1.60/12 7} Bg8 {-1.62/13 3} 26. Nc5 {+1.52/14 9}
Bxe5 {-1.64/14 1.8} 27. Bxe5+ {+1.62/14 11} Kxg6 {-1.62/14 0.2} 28. b3
{+1.55/13 8} Kg5 {-1.66/13 4} 29. Kh2 {+1.66/12 13} b6 {-1.49/13 1.7} 30.
Nd7 {+1.49/12 7} Kg6 {-1.54/14 7} 31. Bb2 {+1.62/13 19} Rxe3 {-1.41/13 14}
32. Rxe3 {+1.49/14 0.1} Re8 {-1.46/14 12} 33. Rf3 {+1.83/15 0.1} Re1
{-1.83/13 12} 34. Bc3 {+2.72/14 2.8} Rd1 {-2.74/14 10} 35. Rf6+
{+2.72/15 9} Kg5 {-3.05/15 2.9} 36. f3 {+2.92/15 10} Bd5 {-3.31/14 24} 37.
Kh3 {+3.24/15 0.1} Bxf3 {-3.30/14 14} 38. Rxf3 {+3.49/14 5} Rh1+
{-3.47/14 11} 39. Kg2 {+4.30/17 26} Rd1 {-4.38/16 0.1} 40. Bf6+
{+4.41/16 24} Kg6 {-4.41/17 0.1} 41. g5 {+4.41/16 12} Rd2+ {-4.49/16 0.2}
42. Kf1 {+4.51/16 8} Ne4 {-4.54/16 21} 43. Ne5+ {+4.66/16 0.1} Kh7
{-4.54/16 12} 44. Rh3 {+4.66/16 0.1} Rf2+ {-4.75/15 14} 45. Kg1
{+5.06/19 0.1} Rxf6 {-5.05/16 9} 46. gxf6 {+5.24/17 0.1} Nxf6 {-5.09/17 10}
47. Nxc6 {+5.22/18 1.2} Kg6 {-5.13/17 9} 48. Rg3+ {+5.44/16 8} Kf5
{-5.44/17 1.6} 49. Rg7 {+5.61/16 9} Nd5 {-5.73/16 11} 50. c4 {+5.85/17 0.2}
Kf6 {-5.84/15 8} 51. Rd7 {+5.97/17 0.1} Nc3 {-6.10/16 12} 52. Rxc7
{+6.14/16 9} h5 {-6.23/15 0.9} 53. Kg2 {+6.20/16 10} b5 {-6.44/15 4} 54.
Nd4 {+6.67/16 6} bxc4 {-6.71/16 5} 55. Rxc4 {+6.83/16 1.7} Nd5 {-6.82/17 8}
56. Rc6+ {+7.01/17 4} Ke5 {-7.08/17 6} 57. Nf3+ {+7.19/17 6} Ke4
{-7.22/17 3} 58. Rxa6 {+7.19/17 9} Nf4+ {-7.35/17 0.1} 59. Kg3 {+7.56/17 9}
Ke3 {-7.56/16 4} 60. Rf6 {+7.70/17 8} Ne2+ {-7.81/17 0.4} 61. Kh4
{+8.22/18 11} Nc3 {-8.13/19 0.1} 62. a4 {+8.63/19 11} Nd5 {-8.71/18 12} 63.
Rf5 {+9.26/19 0.9} Nb4 {-9.11/19 10} 64. Kxh5 {+9.60/19 2.9} Ke4
{-9.34/19 8} 65. Kg4 {+9.93/18 14} Kd3 {-10.32/18 4} 66. Rc5 {+13.76/19 9}
Ke3 {-17.14/20 40} 67. Rc3+ {+16.47/20 0.1} Ke2 {-17.01/19 10} 68. a5
{+19.27/19 11} Nd5 {-16.64/16 27} 69. Rc2+ {+19.23/16 17} Ke3
{-19.27/19 34} 70. a6 {+19.23/16 0.1} Nb6 {-19.44/14 6} 71. a7
{+19.67/16 16} Na8 {-20.68/13 2.3} 72. Rc8 {+99.83/13 17} Nb6
{-99.84/14 0.1} 73. Rb8 {+99.85/13 15} Nd5 {-99.86/16 0.1} 74. a8=Q
{+99.87/15 12} Nf6+ {-99.88/49 0.1} 75. Kf5 {+99.89/40 9} Nh5
{-99.90/52 0.1} 76. Qe4+ {+99.91/51 10} Kf2 {-99.92/53 0.1} 77. Rg8
{+99.93/52 10} Ng3+ {-99.94/52 0.1} 78. Rxg3 {+99.95/48 4} Kxg3
{-99.96/49 4} 79. Qe2 {+99.97/51 11} Kh3 {-99.98/50 0.1} 80. Qh2#
{+99.99/47 7}
{Xboard adjudication: Checkmate} 1-0

> Chessvariants.com would be good enough (athough it has itsown website, http://www.spartanchessonline.com ).


Nice helmet.
Parent - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 14:12
Are you going to put this stuff over to the iPad?????? :eek:
Parent - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 16:46 Edited 2011-08-09 19:20
You should look into a subforum over there at TalkChess.com! :yell::wink::cool:

[edit:  for the 'Computer Chess Variants'].
Parent - By Prima (****) Date 2011-08-08 17:52
Bob, in all the time you've posted in CCC, OpenChess, and Rybka forum etc, I've NOT known you to insult people or even engaged in that. If at all, it's usually the other way round. And even with that, you respond professionally, constructively, and to "the point" - avoiding the insult part.

One man vs. the entire Rybka gang and they couldn't refute the truth/facts.

They resorted to coverup Rybka's origin, then to personal attacks & insults to "adding people to their ignore lists". During the IppoLit censoring etc, I believe it was Tord Romstad who advised these moderators NOT to delete posts or censor/ban people - as it will only prove the moderators here lied about IppoLit and in if at all, deepen the quarrel. Man was Tord right in his wisdom.

And now post deletion! They have clearly lost the battle.
Parent - By Mark (****) [us] Date 2011-08-08 18:34
An ill-conceived attempt to frustrate you or provoke a reaction.

Will the forum motto become "If you can't beat 'em, ban 'em?"
Parent - - By SR (****) [dk] Date 2011-08-08 20:27
I am a moderator here. I have noticed a lot of people personal attempted to insult you. I don't think personal insults should not be accepted and things recently got out of control.  

To delete one of your post "because personal insults are not permitted" is not fair without a warning or some kind of clarification. 

I think you have been unfairly treated, but I am sure a lot of Rybka fans think you and ICGA has treated Rybka in a similar biased and unfair manner.

Formally you made a personal insult when you wrote:
Only because you can't read and comprehend. Not a single innuendo to be found...

You seem to refuse to understand and appreciate that Vas is a person with integrity. Instead of seing the common humanity and interests you share with a fellow engine author like Vas, you vilify him and take part in his character assassination.

If you want to be formal and argue with blinkers on, let me point out that  the phrase
Only because you can't read and comprehend is a personal insult. To use your own argument:
Just because B,C or D also did it (made personal insults) is no excuse that A did it. 

Its actually interesting to draw parallels to the Rybka case. The moderators got a complaint that your post contained a personal insult. No complaint were received for other posts. Thus we had no option but to look into it. And had we had 34 people (From the Rybka site) on the panel I can easily imagine that 14 would vote that Only because you can't read and comprehend is a personal insult. An not a  single of the 34 on the panel would object to that finding.

And what should the punishment be for that transgression. The committee voted 5-0 to Ban Bob Hyatt for life....

Its about context! If we forget the context there is no doubt that you made an unacceptable personal insult....
Parent - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-08 20:53
"you can't read and comprehend" is a "personal insult?"  Or perhaps a "statement of observed fact"?

But in the great scheme of things, this doesn't matter.  The moderators can do what they want.  Members can do what they want.  Seems we have resolved all of this at CCC as the discussions have gone away.  But they were not "pushed away".
Parent - - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-08 20:55
"you can't read and comprehend" is a "personal insult?"  Or perhaps a "statement of observed fact"?

But in the great scheme of things, this doesn't matter.  The moderators can do what they want.  Members can do what they want.  Seems we have resolved all of this at CCC as the discussions have gone away.  But they were not "pushed away". 

But if you want, "ban me for life."  The discussions will dry up, for sure.  As will relevant information on what happened.

Your choice...

BTW, I do not plan on being a "long term visitor" here anyway.  I'm not a Rybka user.  Nor do I use any other commercial program, and I have no plans to do so...

I do find it strange that "you can't read and comprehend" is too personal, but "you are a pompous ass" (and worse) is perfectly acceptable...  :)
Parent - - By SR (****) [dk] Date 2011-08-08 21:03
"you are a pompous ass"
is definitely not acceptable, but it was apparently not reported.
Parent - - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-08 21:13
I'm a "big enough boy" that I don't whine to the moderators.  If someone reported "you are unable to read and comprehend" then I would think they have a real problem in dealing with a public forum and should perhaps find a more sheltered place in which to play.
Parent - - By SR (****) [dk] Date 2011-08-08 21:31
Your "insult" was reported by someone who was not really engaged in the discussion. I am sure it would not go down well at your university if you told a student that "he is unable to read and comprehend". :wink:
Parent - - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-08 21:45
If it was a factual statement, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow.  :)
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2011-08-08 22:40

> Only an idiot would say such a thing.


This came from you-

You have a funny sense of what is and is not abusive.  Either you're arrogant or you lack insight into your own behaviors- you pick which is the defective cause.
Parent - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 20:01
:lol: They're splitting hairs with you Bob! :grin:  (imo).
Parent - - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 20:03
Is there any chance of you porting Crafty to iPad? :cool:
Parent - By bob (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-09 20:50
I don't deal with Apple products.  They are intentionally "anti-open-source" by their very nature.  The Apple platforms that run the Unix O/S will work just fine with Crafty, as it is.  I'd think the Ipad would work as well.  Once you cross over to the Iphone, I'm not so interested, because there are too many things to deal with in that world, different systems, different policies for distribution, etc...
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-08-10 11:46
I would like to report and complain about my own posts, wherein I have called Bob a blackguard and a jackanapes, and suggested that his writing 35 posts a day for weeks on end was a clear indicator of derangement.  These were deliberate and hurtful insults, and at this point I would like to strenuously object to myself and others calling him pompous, a blowhard, a charalatan, a bad programmer, a non-genius, past his prime, showing signs of obsessive-compulsive disorder, vindictive, malevolent, arrogant and the type of person who once fried small insects with a magnifying glass.  All of these statements were unacceptable and must be retracted, regardless of their essential truth or falsehood.  It is not acceptable to compare Bob to Captain Ahab or Inspector Javert; such talk must be stopped.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-08-10 12:04

> I would like to report and complain about my own posts


You may want to contact Dadi so he implements the report own posts feature.

Seriously, it'd be something useful to have for when e.g. you have finished a game in the Correspondence chess section and would like to have the thread title edited to show the result, but you're the creator of the thread. Or for when the 48 hour edit limit is over and you want to edit a post via a moderator. Currently users have to contact a specific moderator for this, it'd be better if they could just report their own posts with the info.
Parent - By SR (****) [dk] Date 2011-08-08 21:04
My previous post was reported:

This is a very inappropriate set of comments for a moderator to make here.  You are responding in anger instead of being factual.  Please reconsider this approach, or I fear people will find you no longer objective.

Let in make it absolutely clear that I have nothing to do with the message send to Bob Hyatt, and that I strongly oppose this and think that Bob Hyatt was not treated fairly.

However, I also think it important to recognise that a lot of Rybka fans and members of the Rybka  forum think that Rybka did not have a fair trail.

I then pointed out some analogs to the Rybka case. Of course the analog is far from perfect!  The analog would have been better had Bob Hyatt been banned for something he wrote on the forum 5 years ago ;-)

Let me stress that all this is a bit tongue in cheek so please don't take it too serious....  Anyway I definitely did not "respond" in anger so it looks as if my post was not so clear :sad:
Parent - By BankShots (***) Date 2011-08-09 14:09
It is not a good feeling to have a post get 'deleted' bob!!  In spite of all the "sides"-taking, I am sure by all accounts that yours, for sure, was quite a huge effort!

(Just a note about my experience with the courtesies of this forum:  your rate of posts was very high for this forum.  Definitely posts not many would try to keep track of here I'd suppose.  In the months of this controversy, you probably have 1-2 years worth of a normal number of posts.)

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