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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Something different
Poll Which Chessbase option will come true? (Closed)
Rybka Cluster sold under Chessbase 19 35%
A new Fritz engine, so strong it's revolutionary 5 9%
A new GUI for chess analysis 16 30%
A hardware solution (e.g. FPGA) 1 2%
Nothing - the Rybka fiasco has cancelled their plans 8 15%
Other (please specify) 5 9%
- - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2011-08-05 12:34 Edited 2011-08-05 12:49
I'm fed up with all the news about how Rybka did / didn't cheat so here's something more worthy to ponder: What do you think Chessbase were referring to a few months ago when they said they were going to revolutionise computer chess within 3 months? The response was prompted by Garry Kasparov's article. Vote above!

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7278
Parent - - By Mark (****) Date 2011-08-05 13:17
It's gotta be selling Cluster time.  That's the only "revolutionary" thing I can think of.
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2011-08-05 15:24

> It's gotta be selling Cluster time.  That's the only "revolutionary" thing I can think of.


Yeah agreed. I hope it's not too expensive.
Parent - By Mark (****) Date 2011-08-05 15:53
I'm sure I wouldn't be using it anyway, no matter what the cost.  I'm never in a hurry for analysis...
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-08-06 00:02
I have no idea but I voted A new GUI for chess analysis because that's what I want! I'm really tired of seeing top engines excel at Strength and Style (and features, like Critter and Houdini getting "Learning") while the GUIs are stalled in improvements, forcing me to use 4 different GUI when I want to do different things :eek:

Shredder Classic - The best and what I use. But what it has in user-friendliness it lacks in features. Have you tried to store your analysis in there? I couldn't even hold a big book, eventually it takes one second just to move from one position to the next, and gets worse by the minute.

Bookup - What I use to store my analysis. But it's the only thing it's good at (analyzing with an engine sucks, etc.) It has the huge problem when dealing with transpositions. Suppose you have a position with 100 variations, and there's 10 ways to reach it. So, when you backtrack, it'll sow that you have 1000 variations, because it can't tell them apart. If the same happens to this position, now you have 100 variations that appear as 10000. Still acceptale, I guess, but now, suppose you find that one of these 100 variations transposes to another, so that it shows 101 variations on there. Fair enough, however, it turns out this move transposed to a past position on some other line that already had those previous 10000 variations stored, so that instead of getting 101000 at the root, you get 202000. Find 10 such transpositions, and it'll show you have 1010000 variations. More than one million variations out of 111 unique moves :surprised: (Okay, that's theory, in reality if you go past 50000, it'll just show ">50000" for everything, what I call "analysis black hole" as this >50000 count will eat everything useful count you have stored). This is surprisingly common when you analyze lots of positions.

There's also the problem with repetition of positions, if you backsolve manually, it may show a 2.00 score for a position that just repeats endlessly, one has to fire up an engine that knows about repetition to show you it's really 0.00.

Aquarium - The most powerful, yet, I lost more time than I save with it, just navigating the menus. I already have complained about its user hostile interface enough, suffice to say that back when I used it, it was faster to have the Shredder Classic GUI opened at the same time than switch Aquairum Modes just for infinite analysis. Currently I only use it to open CTG books, but that will change as soon as I find my Junior 10 disc...

Winboard - I really like the GUI for its lightweight, and probably it's the GUI with the potential to fulfill my dreams, being open source. However, its development is in the hands of hgm, and I don't think making it analysis friendly is in its priorities (as there are some really important features that must be added first, maybe some day...)
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2011-08-06 00:08
Excellent reviews, Uly. Wish you had Chessbase so that you could review it as well.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-08-06 00:48
Isn't Chessbase like Fritz but with Database capabilities? I don't use databases, if that's so, it's an easy one:

Fritz GUI - Plain unusable for analysis because it doesn't have the exclude moves feature, "Next Best" is a mess to use, so you're left with MultPV to ask the engine for alternative moves (for engines without learning, anyway) which slows the engine and it's not very effective unless the user is a medium and knows exactly which MultiPV count to use.

No reason to use that unless you like analyzing with DPA, use CTG books, or play in playchess (..or use an engine that only runs in that interface).
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2011-08-07 14:17

> Bookup - What I use to store my analysis. But it's the only thing it's good at (analyzing with an engine sucks, etc.) It has the huge problem when dealing with transpositions.


Have you tried Chess Position Trainer Beta 1.6 (version 4)? Seems very good to me.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2011-08-07 18:38
I've tried to get it to work for Windows 7 x64 bit with no success. Shame.
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2011-08-07 19:07
Strange - I'm using Win 7 x64 with no issues so far.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2011-08-07 19:14
I'll give it another go- I couldn't even get it to open the last time I installed it. I've been a fan of Stefan's work for years - it's been a very slow going process.  Maybe it was the early version that isn't compatible.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-08-08 04:43

> Have you tried Chess Position Trainer Beta 1.6 (version 4)? Seems very good to me.


No. I'm going to try it now, thanks for the tip.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2011-08-08 05:49
Okay that was quick. Upon opening it, I got a problem "opening main database", and when trying to create a new one, I got this:



I guess I'll wait for Version 4 Final. I have problems with Bookup but creating new books isn't one of them.
Parent - By BigBen (****) Date 2011-08-06 07:27

>I'm fed up with all the news about how Rybka did / didn't cheat so here's something more worthy to ponder


+1

Hi,
    I voted for a new GUI as that would be what I want out of the options .... Maybe they make an Aquarium which is has easy to use as other chessbase stuff lol :lol:

Regards
Parent - By inactiveaccount (*) Date 2011-08-06 09:19
Hi

> I'm fed up with all the news about how Rybka did / didn't cheat so here's something more worthy to ponder: What do you think Chessbase were referring to a few months ago when they said they were going to revolutionise computer chess within 3 months? The response was prompted by Garry Kasparov's article. Vote above!
>
> http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7278


But it's not revolutionary because"revolutionary" means to me "something completely new, never seen before". I think Chessbase will present some "cloud service": have your games stored in the cloud and play chess in the cloud from anywhere you want and with any device you want. So they might have a web browser based playchess software (or maybe nativ clients for several OSes like iOS, Android, Win, Mac, Linux) and a cluster based chess program so you might buy the number of processors that your chess program should use.
- By Magnus Friedmann (***) Date 2011-08-05 22:00
I've got this feeling that it's something new, and its name is...... THINKER!
- By Eagleclaww (***) Date 2011-08-07 18:36
I picked OTHER. I have a feelling that its going to be Chessbase 12 with some actual new features.

With the change from Chessbase 10 to Chessbase 11, the primary change was the ribbon interface. Most of the other "improvements" were minor additions that didn't nessesarily be enough to prompt many people from upgrading thier Chessbase 10 to 11. Unless they really just wanted the ribbon interface.

Not really sure what the new feature or features that would be though. Between Chessbase 11, Chess Assistant 11, and SCID, there are few new ways to slice and dice databases of chess games anymore.
- By Magnus Friedmann (***) Date 2011-08-15 22:25
Of course, it could be HOUDINI 2 increased with 100 ELO points, which would make him a very strong competitor for Rybka Cluster on big hardware!!
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Something different

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