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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Match Rybka vs Zappa in Mexico City
- - By Nataliya Krasavtseva (**) [ru] Date 2007-09-13 12:31
From 20th to 27th of September Mexico will host  a Computer match between the two strongest chess programs of the world, played during the Final of the World Chess Championship among humans. The program Rybka (World Computer Chess Champion 2007) will play against Zappa (World Computer Chess Champion 2005, and vice champion in 2007).

Both programs are well-known worldwide and head the rating-lists of all independent agencies of chess programs CCRL and CEGT.

The match will consist of 10 games, with a time control 60 minutes per game plus 20 seconds per move.

The schedule of the games:

20th Sep – Game 1
21st Sep – Game 2
22nd Sep – Games 3 and 4
23rd Sep – Game 5
24th Sep – Game 6
25th Sep – Game 7
26th Sep – Games 8 and 9
27th Sep – Game 10

The event will take place in Hotel Centro Historico Sheraton in Mexico City. The match will be played on two identical 8-cores computers. The prize fund of the match is 10, 000 USD (the winner takes all). In case of a tied match the prize fund will be shared equally.
Parent - - By Hetman (*****) Date 2007-09-13 19:47
It is the good news.
I hope that Rybka will win.
Rgds
Hetman
Parent - By FWCC (***) [us] Date 2007-09-13 19:58
Hello Larry,I sort of miscalculated THIS math Rybka-Zappa will be more interesting then the failed Junior match.After all these two are the top 1&2 rated comps.Looking forward to a GREAT match,there is a lot going on with the WCC human and the Computer Championships going on-exciting times!
Parent - - By plicocf (***) [br] Date 2007-09-14 21:00
I hope that Zappa win the match, do you know why?
We will see a more strong Rybka 3.0.

Paulo Soares
Parent - - By herakleitos (***) Date 2007-09-19 22:18
I hope Rybka wins, but I also hope that Zappa shows Rybka her weaknesses so that 3.0 is that much better.

You make a good point.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2007-09-19 22:58
Vas, Iweta and Larry are strong enough to see Rybka's weaknesses, the match against Zappa won't help much to see the engines weak points I guess :)
Parent - By herakleitos (***) Date 2007-09-19 23:01
There's always the unexpected, such as people post on this forum from time to time and such as Vas finds out in the events. But in the main, you're right.
Parent - - By Aung (**) [kr] Date 2007-09-20 00:36

> Vas, Iweta and Larry are strong enough to see Rybka's weaknesses


I'm sorry what is that means????...AFAIK Rybka's built help by a lot of custmors,testers and friends...
i saw a lot of bugs post by peoples and Vas fixed a lot on this bugs.. is that means they are strong enough to see????
just like think  The Lion....enemy small or big can kill u..u know it..:)
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2007-09-20 02:04
This just means that the members of the Rybka team are strong enough to see that there are some things that can be improved in Rybka, so they already know many things where they can start improving her. Of course the input from the forum tells Vas more about bugs (that's a different story), but my statement was more about evaluation etc. .
Some posts here are also about the evaluation ( e.g. king attacks ... :) ), so the forum can of course also help in this point, I agree.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-19 23:30
As likely as not, this short match will be determined by the quality of the books and the strategy and luck involved in determining which lines get played. Based on recent experience, the Rybka team would have to be the favorite here, but Erdo is a very sharp guy and anything is possible.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-20 01:37
You have to figure both sides will have outstanding books.  Noomen and Erdo have the best reputations in the bookmaking.  In such circumstances it isn't a question of strategy or luck; it's just circumstance.  Nobody knows for sure how the other guy's book will respond to particular stimuli.

It may not turn out that way, but I think the books and book-exit positions should come out roughly equally over the course of the match.  It will be interesting to analyze this post-match in some objective manner. 

However what is very unequal is the engines themselves.  There is no way Zappa will evaluate the middle game identically to Rybka.  Time will tell which engine more consistently appraises the situation accurately, seizing opportunities and deflecting risks.  I think even a short match can offer some strong clues.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-13 20:35
The big question in my mind is, "Is this match recognized by FIDE?".  Based on everything that I have seen so far (or, more precisely, the lack of any official news), the answer seems to be "No."  It seems that instead, this is an unofficial friendly match that is being played for money and will happen to be played in the same venue and during the same time as the 2007 World Chess Championship.

I state this hoping for someone to firmly refute this view.
Parent - By Silvian (***) [ro] Date 2007-09-19 10:49
FIDE ???
FIDE ???
FIDE ???

What means FIDE for computer chess ? NOTHING !
Rybka & Zappa are the best in field.
Junior ??? Just a good chess engine.
Of course -after Rybka,Zappa,Hiarcs,Fruit,Toga,Fritz,Shredder,Loop,Naum,Spike.....
Remain only discussions & prides.

Kramnik-Deep Fritz ???
Deep Fritz-Junior ???
The last Mochican for ChessBase. Shredder is now UCI,Hiarcs-UCI,Chess Tiger -UCI,Zappa-UCI.Remain only Fritz & Junior....And-of course-ChessBase's memories of childhood.

If Junior is the best chess engine in world -why the poor places in CEGT,CCRL.........?????
To win a world title playing 8-10 chess games means nothing.The preparations of Junior's team for a match are good.The book of Mr. Boris Alterman is very good. But the chess engine -itself-isn't a great one .

Regards,
Silvian
Parent - - By oudheusa (*****) [nl] Date 2007-09-13 20:53
Very nice Vas.

Where will the match be broadcasted?

What are the hours of play?
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-13 22:35
This doesn't answer any of that; this only refers to the World Chess Championship tournament.
Parent - - By Nataliya Krasavtseva (**) [ru] Date 2007-09-14 16:08
The match will be official and FIDE is aware of this match.
The lack of official information on it is just temporary problem which is to be solved in the nearest future.
Parent - - By Victor Zakharov (*****) [ru] Date 2007-09-14 17:05
As far as I know Rybka-Zappa matches will be started 3 hours before the human WCC-2007 matches. Surely the translations with comments and analysis are in plans.
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) [sy] Date 2007-09-14 20:33
Somehow I think this match will overshadow the human match ... I will be very curious to see if it gets more viewers on Playchess than the human games.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-14 23:41
I guess I wasn't precise enough in my use of the word "recognize".  Does FIDE actually endorse the match?  The official announcement that will soon come--will this come directly from FIDE?  My basic concern is that the match will occur, Rybka will win, but that the credibility of the result will be questioned by people who say that this was basically just a match organized between the teams of the two top chess-playing engines, but that there is no "official" status to the match.  I'm sure that Chessbase will look for every opportunity to not recognize it due to something like this.
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2007-09-15 01:17
Yes, it would be very good if FIDE endorses it and mentions it in press releases (also the local organizers), to get more media coverage for Rybka, Zappa, and for computer chess and it's performance level in general.

ChessBase will almost certainly mention the match! They also mentioned the Chess960 computer tournament in Mainz several times, which I think wasn't a FIDE event. Also, CB. sells Zap!Chess and offers the Zanzibar update, which may be interesting for some people still, even if it is not the latest version. For example, there may be users which only use the ChessBase database program and would like another analysis engine, or people who have an older Fritz interface version and are planning to buy a new one.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2007-09-15 02:57
Yes, it would be very good if FIDE endorses it

And give a prize found of 100.000$ like in the match Junior vs Fritz :-).
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-15 02:59
I think this was more like paying $100K for a guarantee of good publicity from CB for the country and the event.

Alan
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2007-09-15 03:09
Okay, I see! FIDE has nothing to pay for a guarantee of good publicity from Convekta for the country and the event. :-)
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-15 03:39
For some reason, Elista seems to be much closer to the center of the FIDE universe than Mexico City.

Alan
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-15 02:58
I suspect that FIDE won't officially sanction this event unless there is something in it for FIDE. Of course the Mexican event organizers are supporting this match, but of course that isn't the same thing.

Nataliya's comment that FIDE is "aware" of the match certainly makes it sound like it is NOT a sanctioned event (as the Ultimate Computer Chess Challenge was).

Alan
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) [de] Date 2007-09-15 03:20
I´m sure, you are right. But supporting this match by the Mexican event organizers is good enough! Who cares about FIDE? Maybe sometimes we will have a great unified match! Ask Kramnik, it´s a profitable issue.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-09-15 04:06
10G's ! They'd better not stray from that hotel. They better not drink the water. That's the only place I know where the army protects tourist from the cops.

Sidserious-
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-17 00:52
Amen to the water warning.  My trip to Cancun in 2002...oh man.  Oh MAN. 
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-15 15:30
Yes, I strongly agree--my heart sank when I first saw the word "aware" in her response.  I think this confirms that this is NOT a FIDE-sanctioned event, and that the match really doesn't have much more meaning than if Vas and Anthony got together on Playchess and said, "Hey, let's have our engines play a 10-game match".  I really hope that I'm wrong.
Parent - - By Nataliya Krasavtseva (**) [ru] Date 2007-09-17 10:56
I am sorry, perhaps "aware" is wrong word. FIDE DID approved this match and it will be OFFICIAL one.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-17 14:23
That's great news! It would be a really good thing if engine matches became commonplace at major tournaments. This should make it easier to get more publicity, probably the most difficult aspect of promoting engines and engine chess.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2007-09-18 23:50
Thank you for clarifying this.  I definitely view this as good news.
Parent - - By Gaмßito (****) [cr] Date 2007-09-19 03:25
I believe in Nataliya words, but I definitely do not like the lack of information about the match. Who is the sponsor? 
 
We are at only two days of the big encounter and there are not information nor nothing about it. It is a shame. 
 
Regards, 
Gambito.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-19 14:22
Your question should really be: Who is the promoter? We know who is providing the venue, the computers, travel funds for the participants, and the prize fund. It looks like Convekta is doing its own promotion for this event. Being new at this, they will probably be learning as they go.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-09-20 01:18
Alan,

What time is the game scheduled for tomorrow?

Robert
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-09-20 03:25
Beats the hell out of me. Ask the promoter!

Alan
Parent - By Gaмßito (****) [cr] Date 2007-09-20 08:11
:-) Yes, and this is why i said that it is a shame Alan.

We are already in day 20, and there are no official information about the match. Only, what said Nataliya.

I do not like that.

Regards,
Gambito.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-09-20 01:30 Edited 2007-09-20 01:36
Here is the bottom line. At least this is the way I see it. When Stefan myer-Kahlen went into business selling " Zappa Mexico" that in and of itself put the "Voodoo"  on " Zappa. "  Cozzie will be lucky to get out of this with is soul intact.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2007-09-20 01:46
Actually it's quite funny, Stefan Mayer Kahlen said in Mainz that Convekta also contacted him for a match, but then suddenly he got an email that they aren't interested in a match against Shredder anymore (that was when Convekta received a positive answer from the Zappa team I guess). Stefan was of course a bit disappointed.

But now he seems also to profit from that match, so I guess he can be happy, too :)
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-09-20 04:02
Hi Felix,

I don't know-of late he seems to be ending up on the short end of it- " When!!!!" Rybka pastes Zappa Mexico in the wavoes- Stefan isn't going to have much to celebrate about.
Parent - - By Razor (****) [gb] Date 2007-09-16 13:39
Is the hardware the same for both chess engines?
Parent - - By Sesse (****) [no] Date 2007-09-16 13:41
Yes. As the first message says: "The match will be played on two identical 8-cores computers."

/* Steinar */
Parent - - By killkra (*) [cn] Date 2007-09-17 03:31
It's really the good news, who can supply us with the official website on this event, and we also need to know the exact time to begin.
Parent - - By Harvey Williamson (*****) Date 2007-09-20 06:06
I have updated the thread on the Hiarcs forum with details of when round 1 starts.

http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1976#1976

Best Wishes,

Harvey
Parent - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2007-09-20 06:53
Thanks for this information... It will be a bit disappointing if the match hardware which was being planned to use, isn't available in time and about half of the match would run on other computers?! I know from responses that the intended, identical hardware for the participants is considered as a highlight of this match, by many (or at least by some of them who expressed their opinion). I see it the same way... but things happen.

But I think it will be a great match anyway, and some time after the match, this hardware issue will only remain a minor detail.

8 hours to go before the battle starts! :-D
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Match Rybka vs Zappa in Mexico City

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