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Parent - - By staylor (***) [il] Date 2012-04-09 21:06
Wow! I havn't posted in this forum a long time now. Main reason is because i have not been in my own appartment with own privacy and own computer and own time. So i only had limited things i accessed when i found a computer. Also, because news moves slowly at Rybka these days.
Point of hiring Cluster?
I would only say that IF i knew it was extremely greater than anything else around, i would occasionaly rent it for an hour to try out some things.
When Deep blue was assembled, i also would have paid something to have fun with the famous machine for an hour.
Rybka cluster is much stronger than that was, but so are other engines, on a normal PC.
But anyway, i would be interested to see how much elo Rybka cluster has, above Houdini 2c.
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) [gb] Date 2012-04-11 07:36
You cannot rent it for 1 hour.

Thus entry ticket is minimum 1'000 Euro for 5 working days using a 40 core engine or 1'000 Euro for 2 working days using a 100 cores engine.

regards
Parent - - By staylor (***) [il] Date 2012-04-11 10:43
Oh well, so that's not much good! If it's something i will anyway be able to own within 5 years, when i get a new computer with the top program then (to get to the same playing strength).
If i was rich, i wouldn't care, so i would rent it for 2 days now.
If i was only semi-rich, i would eat well and sleep well for a few days first, then i would find myself a time without appointments, then i would try to close myself in a room with plenty of coffee or whatever, and try to stay awake 48 hours!
Parent - - By staylor (***) [il] Date 2012-04-11 10:55
Just to be sure, i will say EXACTLY.
I would do almost like i wrote above, but i would have all my fantastic chess positions all ready, in which i think human judgement was better than any computer, then when i needed to go out or fall asleep for a very short time, i would leave it analyzing one of these positions.

Indeed, i wish someone here could post any fantastic chess moves, or games that only this 100-core Rybka came up with.
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) [gb] Date 2012-04-11 11:40
I dont believe you will see any.

Thats where I do not understand the Rybka team.
I played a few Years back against the cluster a few centaur games and at that time it was already very very strong !
Maybe they dont need to do any efforts for marketing ?
anyhow, I do also believe that today, using Houdini 2c on a 12 cores at over 4 GHz is already very strong and wonder what more you can gain from the cluster Rybka ?

rgds
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) [us] Date 2012-04-11 11:48
Personally I think they should regularly release scores vs. other engines running normal or high end hardware. Maybe games as well.. although perhaps this is more controversial.

I mean we have overly limited information on how strong the cluster really is. It's strength is one of its most important selling points.
Parent - By Homayoun_Sohrabi_M.D. (***) [us] Date 2012-04-11 12:17
I wonder if it's being used right now for the WCC preparation.   I mean I couldn't pay 500 dollars a day for chess, but when you are playing for 1.5 million, then you can afford to rent it for a couple of months.
Parent - - By staylor (***) [il] Date 2012-04-11 12:15
Exactly. There should be a match between the two! (But Vas might not enter his own program. It would have to be someone who pays for its rental!)
Parent - - By Homayoun_Sohrabi_M.D. (***) [us] Date 2012-04-11 12:27
What is the approximate ELO difference between Houdini on one core vs 32 cores?  Does Mr Houdart or anyone else know that?   If not, is there any way to estimate the number based on what we already know for Houdini running on 6 or 8 cores?
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2012-04-11 13:03
Houdart somewhere claimed Houdini's mp speedup is 1.6 per doubling of cores. Going from 1 to 32 cores is 5 doublings. So the effective speedup should be 1.6^5 = 10.48576. That's 3.39 doublings of effective speed. Per doubling of effective speed you gain 50 - 70 Elo points. So you get + 169 to 237 Elo points.
Parent - - By Homayoun_Sohrabi_M.D. (***) [us] Date 2012-04-11 13:33
That's a lot of Elo points!   Thank you for the reply.
Parent - By Bouddha (****) [gb] Date 2012-04-11 14:17
indeed
Parent - - By Akbarfan (***) Date 2012-04-12 15:40

> So the effective speedup should be 1.6^5 = 10.48576.


I understand.

> That's 3.39 doublings of effective speed.


don't understand. Why 3.39 ?
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2012-04-12 16:36
2^3.39 = 10.48
Parent - By Akbarfan (***) Date 2012-04-12 16:58
Ah, danke. :red:

> doublings

Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2010-12-31 08:54
I am not sure about It. Correspondence can be played with very light comps If you are plenty of time.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) [us] Date 2011-01-03 20:53
What kind of fool will fork over 200 or 500 Euros a day to rent a handful of cores and the newest Rybka? I suppose a rich one.
Parent - By staylor (***) [il] Date 2012-04-11 11:03
Depends what this "handfull of cores" can do different. Together with what the ability of this cluster Rybka version has of handling the increased speed, and converting it to stronger moves. (not fail high, or fail low, or whatever).
- - By dragon49 (****) [us] Date 2011-01-16 03:37
Are there pre-orders.  Do you have paid customers yet?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-01-16 04:55
From here:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=300538

"So far [a formal confidentiality agreement] hasn't been [an issue] - none of our customers or our candidate customers complained about it. [...]

Vas"

So, I guess the Cluster Model is already a success.
- - By djbl (**) [gb] Date 2011-02-09 05:24
wow,. this is the first i have seen of the actual details of this cluster idea. all i can is good luck with that! when i saw the prices i nearly choked, who in their right mind is going to pay hundreds of pounds/euros to win a few games in playchess engine room or to analyse their corres' games a bit better? i think this is a very ill conceived plan and is sure to fail. it is just not where the chess engine scene is at. i am not being a doom monger, just a realist. how many people have a few grand lying around to rent a chess engine? jeez, its almost funny.
Parent - By Labyrinth (*****) [us] Date 2011-02-09 12:27
It's only for scientologists :razz:
Parent - By Gr00vy (**) [us] Date 2011-03-04 23:40
You're right the consumer group is quite small.  Maybe 10 players in the world.  But for those 10 players, very worth it.
- - By Mervin Date 2011-02-27 11:49
Interesting enough. Do you guys know that something similar exists for free?
http://www.arshah.com/
Parent - - By jitan (*) [a1] Date 2011-05-07 01:24
it doesn't install
Parent - By Mervin Date 2011-05-09 18:00
Hadn't any problems installing it on my laptop and PC too.

AFAIK, they are supporting Windows only.
- By donkey Date 2011-03-19 18:37
To me, the current rental scheme is quite limited...to users with large wallets. Whilst it's fine to have a high-end pricing structure like this for "professionals", it seems bizarre to me not to launch with a low-end pricing structure at the same time (and not many months later).

Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that people should be able to rent the cluster on a "CPU hours" basis, perhaps with a minimum purchase level to stop "jokers" buying just one hour (e.g. 50 CPU hours for 50 Euros or something like that). CPU usage would only be used up when the Rybka cluster was actually evaluating a position (including ponder mode) and should probably be monitored to 1/100th of sec of CPU time (the amount of CPU left should be visible in the cluster interface at all times) - all other use of the Web interface should not incur a reduction in the CPU hours left.

Obviously, 2 cores of the Rybka cluster would use up approximately double the CPU time (though each CPU core should have its own usage exactly calculated and the total usage deducted from the CPU hours left - e.g. 2 cores may use 1.95 * the CPU of a single core).

Discounts should be offered for larger blocks of CPU hours purchased of course, but this scheme allows any "normal" person to join in and use it occasionally for analysis or even to play some games against it or against other engines and with prudent use, the 50 Euros could last a full year. Oh and "top-ups" after the initial purchase should allow as little as 10 hours for 10 Euros, since you might only want to extend the CPU usage a bit.

I also think that there should be free restricted accounts available (e.g. one minute of CPU on a single core for a free registered user - once it's used up, they'd have to register a new account), so that the user can see what they'd be getting for their 50 Euros. I mean, has anyone even managed to review the user interface for Rybka Cluster, complete with screenshots and a list of issues that need fixing? The restricted accounts would let mere mortals "try before they buy".
- - By Regularuser (***) [gb] Date 2011-05-03 16:01
Could someone from the Rybka team please give us an update on where cloud Rybka for the masses is up to and specifically when we will be able to purchase by the hour?

Also Lukas's comment re the software beating R4.1 and others on 4 cores was helpful but quantified results would be welcomed.
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2011-05-05 06:11
I gave results 2 months ago on 'the edge'. Probably the cluster is a bit stronger now
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-05-07 23:47
Now that clone names are allowed you can probably re-post that in the open.
- By jitan (*) [a1] Date 2011-05-07 01:27
i can probably offer much cheaper than this and i use houdini :-)))
- By Agnelo - Brazil [br] Date 2012-01-03 10:28
Hello, I live in Brazil and I have a Macbook and would like to know if I can install Rybka 4 in 12 Shredder Classic.
- - By rarara (**) Date 2012-05-25 20:04
Hi,

will Rybka Cluster be available in the "engine-cloud.com" ?

Regards
rarara
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2012-05-26 12:09
Yes
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2012-05-26 13:33 Edited 2012-05-26 13:43
Lukas, well done. It has taken a year or so but it sounds like this is finally going ahead. I'm looking forward to renting the Cluster once more and I encourage others to try it as well.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-05-26 20:28

>I'm looking forward to renting the Cluster once more and I encourage others to try it as well.


I encourage others to try it as well

after you told that,im pretty sure that the rental program will be bussy for the next 20 years... :lol:
Parent - By rarara (**) Date 2012-05-27 13:17
Great news!
- By Dionmarinos [ca] Date 2013-01-27 23:10
ya know you can pick up your own 64 core machine these days for under $8000 and analyze  till the cows come home  . would pay for its self in less then a month at those prices mentioned above
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka Cluster Rental Program
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