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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Test Positions / Which programs find this move?
- - By MaxChess77 Date 2010-12-02 22:36
12: Ciraev - Fallein,  1974 Bxh7+
r1b2rk1/1pq2ppp/p1p1p3/2n1P3/2N2P2/3B4/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 1
Parent - - By HarshQueen (**) Date 2010-12-03 11:38
New game
r1b2rk1/1pq2ppp/p1p1p3/2n1P3/2N2P2/3B4/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 1


Engine w32 2_CPU:

1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9/20   00:00:00  14kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 10/31   00:00:00  16kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 11/31   00:00:00  21kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 12/31   00:00:00  29kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/31   00:00:00  58kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 14/34   00:00:00  102kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 15/34   00:00:00  195kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/43   00:00:00  416kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 17/45   00:00:00  827kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 18/45   00:00:00  1506kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 19/48   00:00:02  4706kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.05 ++)   Depth: 20/56   00:00:05  11099kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kh1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Kf7 16.Qh7+
  =  (0.17 ++)   Depth: 20/62   00:00:11  23492kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kf1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rd4 Rxh7 14.Qxh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Ke7 16.Qg7+ Ke8 17.Qxg6+ Kf8 18.Qf6+ Ke8 19.Qh8+ Ke7 20.Qg7+ Ke8 21.Rxc4 a5 22.Rd4 Ra7 23.Qg8+ Ke7 24.Re4 Rc7 25.b3 Qb5+ 26.c4
  =  (0.20)   Depth: 20/68   00:00:21  44611kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kf1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rd4 Rxh7 14.Qxh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Ke7 16.Qg7+ Ke8 17.Qxg6+ Kf8 18.Qf6+ Ke8 19.Qh8+ Ke7 20.Qg7+ Ke8 21.Rxc4 a5 22.Rd4 Ra7 23.Qg8+ Ke7 24.Re4 Rc7 25.b3 Qb5+ 26.c4
  +/=  (0.26 ++)   Depth: 21/68   00:00:29  60851kN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4 4.Re1 b5 5.Rxe4 bxc4 6.Rh3 f5 7.exf6 Rxf6 8.Qh8+ Kf7 9.Rg3 Qb6+ 10.Kf1 g6 11.Rh3 Ke7 12.Rh7+ Rf7 13.Rd4 Rxh7 14.Qxh7+ Kf8 15.Qh8+ Ke7 16.Qg7+ Ke8 17.Qxg6+ Kf8 18.Qf6+ Ke8 19.Qh8+ Ke7 20.Qg7+ Ke8 21.Rxc4 a5 22.Rd4 Ra7 23.Qg8+ Ke7 24.Re4 Rc7 25.b3 Qb5+ 26.c4
  +/=  (0.37 ++)   Depth: 21/68   00:00:35  74336kN
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-03 12:10
Critter 0.90 found it
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2010-12-05 15:21
are you sure you cleared hash??
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2010-12-06 08:35

>are you sure you cleared hash??


Hi,
    Paul (NATIONAL12) came to visit me yesterday and drop off a comp and that is the conclusion we came to concerning the HASH .... I tested loads of engines on the position including critter 0.9 with no luck .... Not sure what depth others allowed the engines to go to though, of course as soon as you enter Bxh7+ all the engines go `oh yeah of course` :lol:

Regards
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-06 10:06
:eek: Really!? my one core form this position within 30 secs with Critter 0.90
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2010-12-06 19:39

>Really!? my one core form this position within 30 secs with Critter 0.90


Yep I kid you not :lol:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-07 23:34
why does everyone think that R4 cannot find Bxh7+
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-07 23:36
r1b2rk1/1pq2ppp/p1p1p3/2n1P3/2N2P2/3B4/PPP3PP/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 1


Analysis by Deep Rybka 4 SSE42 x64
1.Qf3 b5 2.Nd6 f5 3.Be2 Rd8 4.Rad1 Nb7 5.Qd3 Qb6+ 6.Kh1 Bd7 7.Bh5 Nxd6 8.exd6 a5 9.Bf3 b4 10.c3 h6
  +/-  (0.75)   Depth: 13   00:00:00  706kN
1.Qf3 Nxd3 2.Qxd3 b5 3.Nd6 c5 4.c4 Bb7 5.Rfc1 b4 6.a3 Qc6 7.Rc2 a5 8.Rd2 h6 9.Re1 Rad8
  +/=  (0.67)   Depth: 14   00:00:01  1778kN
1.Rf3 Nxd3 2.Rxd3 b5 3.Nd6 c5 4.Qh5 c4 5.Rh3 h6 6.Rg3 Kh8 7.Qg4 g6 8.Qh4
  +/=  (0.68)   Depth: 14   00:00:02  2990kN
1.Rf3 Nxd3 2.Rxd3 b5 3.Nd6 c5 4.Qh5 c4 5.Rh3 h6 6.Rg3 Kh8 7.Qg4 g6 8.Qh4
  +/=  (0.68)   Depth: 15   00:00:03  3240kN
1.Rf2 b6 2.Rf3 Nxd3 3.Qxd3 b5 4.Nd6 Bb7 5.c4 bxc4 6.Nxc4 c5 7.Rg3 Bd5 8.Rd1 Rfd8
  +/=  (0.69)   Depth: 15   00:00:08  8619kN
1.Rf2 b6 2.Rf3 Nxd3 3.Qxd3 b5 4.Nd6 c5 5.Rh3 h6 6.Rd1 Rb8 7.Rg3 c4 8.Qd4 Bb7 9.f5 exf5 10.Nxf5 Rbd8 11.Rxg7+
  +/-  (0.71)   Depth: 16   00:00:10  10123kN
1.Rf2 b6 2.c3 Rd8 3.Nd6 Nxd3 4.Qxd3 g6 5.Rd1 Bb7 6.Rfd2 Rd7 7.Qh3 Rad8 8.Qh4 c5 9.b3 Bd5 10.c4 Bc6
  +/-  (0.71)   Depth: 17   00:00:13  12931kN
1.Rf2 b6 2.c3 Rd8 3.Nd6 Nxd3 4.Qxd3 c5 5.Rd2 Bb7 6.Rad1 Bc6 7.b3 Qe7 8.b4 cxb4 9.cxb4 Bd5 10.Rc1 b5 11.Rdc2 Qa7+ 12.Rc5 f5 13.R1c2
  +/-  (0.71)   Depth: 18   00:00:18  18233kN
1.Rf2 b6 2.c3 Rd8 3.Nd6 Nxd3 4.Qxd3 c5 5.Rd1 Bd7 6.b3 h6 7.c4 Rf8 8.Rfd2 Bc6 9.Qg3 Kh7 10.a3 Rad8 11.Qd3+ Kg8 12.Qc2 Qe7
  +/-  (0.73)   Depth: 19   00:00:47  46348kN
1.Rf2 Bd7 2.Nd6 Nxd3 3.Qxd3 c5 4.Rd2 Bc6 5.Rad1 h6 6.Qg3 Qe7 7.Qb3 Qc7 8.c4 b6 9.Qg3 Kh7 10.Rd3 b5 11.Rc3 bxc4 12.Qf2 Bd5
  +/=  (0.68)   Depth: 20   00:02:02  124mN
1.Rf2 Bd7 2.Nd6 Nxd3 3.Qxd3 c5 4.Rd2 Bc6 5.Rad1 b5 6.b3 Bd5 7.c4 bxc4 8.bxc4 Bc6 9.Qe3 Ba4 10.Rb1 Rab8 11.Rxb8 Rxb8 12.Ne4 Rb1+ 13.Kf2 Bc6 14.Nxc5 Qe7
  +/=  (0.70)   Depth: 21   00:02:45  170mN
1.Rf3 Nxd3 2.Rxd3 b5 3.Nd6 Bb7 4.Qf3 Rad8 5.b4 a5 6.a3 Rd7 7.Qe3 axb4
  +/-  (0.80 ++)   Depth: 21   00:05:28  332mN
1.Rf3 Nxd3 2.Rxd3 b5 3.Nd6 c5 4.Rh3 c4 5.Kh1 Kh8 6.Qh5 h6 7.Rg3 Qe7 8.Rd1 f5 9.Qf3 Bd7 10.Rh3 Rfd8
  +/-  (0.91)   Depth: 21   00:11:04  684mN
1.Rf3 Nxd3 2.Rxd3 b5 3.Nd6 f5 4.Qd2 a5 5.Nxc8 Rfxc8 6.Rd1 Qa7+ 7.Kf1 Qc5 8.Qf2 Qb4 9.c3 Qa4 10.b3 Qa3 11.Rd7 a4 12.Qg3 Qf8
  +/-  (0.88)   Depth: 22   00:14:34  919mN
1.Rf3 g6 2.Qe1 Rd8 3.Rd1 b5 4.Nd6 f5 5.Qh4 a5 6.Rh3 Ba6 7.c3 Rd7 8.b4 axb4 9.cxb4 Nb7 10.Bc2 Nxd6 11.Rxd6 Rxd6 12.exd6 Qa7+ 13.Kf1 Re8 14.Ra3
  +/-  (0.85)   Depth: 23   00:23:56  1534mN
1.Rf3 g6 2.Qe1 Rd8 3.Rd1 b5 4.Nd6 f5 5.Qh4 a5 6.Rh3 Ba6 7.c3 Rd7 8.Bc2 b4 9.cxb4 axb4 10.Qf2
  +/-  (0.89)   Depth: 24   00:35:44  2322mN
1.Rf3 g6 2.Qe1
  +/-  (0.92)   Depth: 25   00:52:15  3384mN
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.b4 b5 3.Nd6
  +/-  (1.01 ++)   Depth: 25   00:57:21  3691mN
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-07 23:42 Edited 2010-12-07 23:50
I wouldn't say the problem with R4 wasn't that it didn't find the move. It took an hour to find it on your hardware. Plus the line it shows is not good. b4 is not the best move after Bxh7. I'm guessing after you show it the move. It plays correctly after that.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-07 23:49
the eval of Rf3 is also very good,however since i posted, eval has risen to 1.16.i will let it run for a while yet.you cannot say as yet that b4 is not the best move maybe Rybka thought the same as you and then destroyed other lines.just supposition at this stage.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-07 23:52
perhaps if you could give me your alternative to b4 i could run it on another computer.
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-07 23:57
oh ok give me a sec. I believe I had find the force win in the position or close to it.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-08 00:04
maybe you are thinking of 2.Qh5+ which appears also good.remember i am doing AN from the root position which was whole point of the thread.:smile:
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-08 00:08
That maybe true, but in the end it should be the best line. For example,

1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 Ne4(if f5 then exf6) 4.Re1! with the threat to take on e4.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-08 00:30 Edited 2010-12-08 00:32
1.Bxh7+ Kxh7 2.Qh5+ Kg8 3.Rf3 f5 4.exf6. Ne4 is one line and i feel sure i could win this as white 2.62 d21 but black has alternative earlier moves.anyway lots of fun and i think we can wrap this thread up now.
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-08 00:37
What maybe interesting to look at. Is post a position of one of Petrosian games were he put a rook on c4 and it was an exchange sac. Were he would get a connected pass pawn if capture. I would be interested to see if engines understand these kinds of tactics.

I'll look one up and post it.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-08 00:43
thats my era,i met petrosian many years ago(1973) i used to have books on his games but gave them all away never believing i would become interested in chess again.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-12-08 01:06
i joined forum about 3 years ago to prevent my brain going down the pan,seems i am doing ok atm.i aint a bad chessplayer also, but it is hard work.i once had a rating OTB i think it was 1970.160 BCF which is equiv 2000 ELO dont know if this is anygood nowadays.i just enjoy the fun,but confident nobody will ever beat me although i give my supporters some hair raising moments at times.at least you know i dont play boring chess unlike Petrosian.:smile:
Parent - By HarshQueen (**) Date 2010-12-06 12:59
I always clear the hash!
Parent - - By dcorbit (***) Date 2010-12-07 00:20
As with all SMP programs, you will see some randomness in SMP search.  For a witness, consider:

Analysis from Q:\x.epd  
12/06/2010 12:01:48 PM Level: 600 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Critter_0.90_64bit

1) "Ciraev - Fallein, 1
    Avoid move:
    Best move (Critter_0.90_64bit): Bd3xh7
    Not found in: 10:20
     2/2  00:00           136  3.885  +0.38  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 Rf8d8
     3/4  00:00           588  16.333  +0.38  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 Rf8d8
     3/4  00:00           979  27.194  +0.58  a2a3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6
     4/4  00:00         1.349  37.472  +0.20  a2a3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Qc7b6+ Rf1f2
     4/5  00:00         1.924  52.000  +0.39  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Ra1c1
     5/7  00:00         2.727  73.702  +0.43  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Qf3f2 Qb6xf2+ Kg1xf2
     6/9  00:00         3.703  92.575  +0.43  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Qf3f2 Qb6xf2+ Kg1xf2
     6/9  00:00        15.662  355.954  +0.54  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Nc4d6 Qc7b6 b2b3 Ra8d8
     7/10  00:00        24.257  495.040  +0.65  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Rf2d2 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 Rd2xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1
     8/10  00:00        26.773  453.779  +0.60  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Rf2d2 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 Rd2xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 Qb6f2 Qd1d2
     9/12  00:00        33.869  529.203  +0.60  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Rf2d2 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 Rd2xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 Qb6f2 Qd1d2
     9/14  00:00        51.361  684.813  +0.66  Ra1b1 Bc8d7 Qd1f3 Ra8d8 Rb1d1 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 h7h6 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Qd3d4 Qb6xd4+ Rd1xd4
    10/18  00:00        77.204  908.282  +0.63  Ra1b1 Bc8d7 Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 Ra8d8 Rf1d1 h7h6 Nc4d6 Qc7a5 a2a3 Qa5c5+ Kg1h1
    10/18+  00:00       143.516  1.366.819  +0.78  c2c3
    10/18  00:00       152.439  1.373.324  +0.67  c2c3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 b2b4 Nc5xd3 Qd1xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 a6a5 a2a3 a5xb4 a3xb4
    10/18  00:00       228.548  1.692.948  +0.78  Qd1e2 Nc5xd3 Qe2xd3 Rf8d8 Qd3e3 b7b5 Nc4d6 Qc7a7 Qe3xa7 Ra8xa7 Ra1d1 c6c5 Rd1d3 c5c4
    11/18  00:00       258.532  1.770.767  +0.75  Qd1e2 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 Nc5xd3 Rd1xd3 Rd8d5 Rf1d1 Bc8d7 Qe2e3 Rd5xd3 Rd1xd3 Ra8d8 Nc4d6 c6c5 Qe3g3
    12/24  00:00       438.381  2.170.202  +0.70  Qd1e2 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 Rd8d5 Rf1f3 Nc5xd3 Rf3xd3 Bc8d7 Qe2e3 Rd5xd3 Rd1xd3 c6c5 Nc4d6 Ra8d8 Rd3d1
    13/26  00:01     2.058.498  2.137.588  +0.75  Qd1e2 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 Rd8d5 Rf1f3 Nc5xd3 Rf3xd3 Bc8d7 Qe2e3 Rd5xd3 Rd1xd3 c6c5 Nc4d6 Ra8d8 c2c4 b7b5 Qe3e4 Bd7c6
    14/26  00:01     3.491.707  2.517.452  +0.83  Qd1e2 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 Nc5xd3 Rd1xd3 Rd8xd3 Qe2xd3 b7b5 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Rf1f2 Qb6c5 b2b3 a6a5 c2c3 Qc5d5 Qd3c2 a5a4
    15/26  00:02     5.084.606  2.807.623  +0.79  Qd1e2 b7b5 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qe2d2 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 a6a5 c2c3 Bc8a6 Qd2c2 Qc7e7 Bd3e2 Ra8b8 b2b3 Qe7h4 a2a3 Rd8d7
    15/32  00:02     7.164.737  3.039.769  +0.85  Qd1f3 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 Nc5xd3 Rd1xd3 Rd8d5 Rf1d1 Bc8d7 Qf3e3 Ra8c8 Nc4d6 Rc8d8 Kg1h1 Rd5xd3 Qe3xd3 c6c5 c2c4 Bd7c6 Kh1g1 b7b6
    16/32  00:02     8.409.325  3.088.257  +0.83  Qd1f3 Rf8d8 Bd3e2 Nc5a4 Ra1d1 b7b5 Rd1xd8+ Qc7xd8 Rf1d1 Bc8d7 b2b3 Na4b6 Nc4d6 Nb6c8 Nd6xc8 Ra8xc8 Qf3e3 c6c5 Qe3d3 Rc8c7 Qd3d6 Qd8c8 Qd6e7
    17/32  00:04    13.426.602  3.243.140  +0.83  Qd1f3 Rf8d8 Bd3e2 Nc5a4 b2b3 b7b5 Nc4d6 Na4b6 Qf3h5 Nb6d5 Be2d3 h7h6 a2a4 Ra8a7 Kg1h1 Nd5c3 a4xb5 a6xb5 Qh5g4
    17/32+  00:08    27.622.443  3.506.276  +0.95  Rf1f3
    17/41  00:11    37.483.324  3.458.190  +0.82  Rf1f3 f7f5 Qd1d2 Rf8d8 Qd2f2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 Bd7e8 Ra1e1 Be8f7 Re1c1 Ra8b8 Nc4d6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7xd6 d3d4 Rb8d8 Rh3b3 Qd6c7 Rb3g3 Bf7h5
    18/42  00:17    59.883.980  3.438.643  +0.79  Qd1f3 Rf8d8 Ra1d1 Nc5xd3 Rd1xd3 Rd8xd3 Qf3xd3 b7b5 Nc4d6 h7h6 Qd3e3 Ra8b8 Qe3c5 Bc8b7 Rf1d1 Rb8d8 h2h3 Bb7a8 Kg1h2 h6h5 g2g3
    18/42  00:18    62.423.845  3.452.455  +0.82  Rf1f3 f7f5 Qd1d2 Rf8d8 Qd2f2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 Bd7e8 Ra1e1 Be8f7 Re1c1 Ra8b8 Nc4d6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7xd6 d3d4 Rb8d8 Rh3b3 Qd6c7 Rb3g3 Bf7h5
    19/42  00:27    83.991.563  3.121.434  +0.87  Rf1f3 f7f5 Qd1d2 Rf8d8 Qd2f2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 Bd7e8 Ra1e1 Be8f7 Re1c1 Ra8b8 Qf2e3 Rd8d7 Nc4d6 Qc7a5 a2a3 Qa5d5
    20/42  00:31    99.579.832  3.195.348  +0.87  Rf1f3 f7f5 Qd1d2 Rf8d8 Qd2f2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 Bd7e8 Ra1c1 Be8f7 Qf2e3 a6a5 Nc4d6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7xd6 Rh3g3 Ra8d8 Qe3b6 Qd6d4+ Qb6xd4 Rd8xd4
    21/42  00:43   145.986.097  3.394.709  +0.86  Rf1f3 f7f5 Qd1d2 Rf8d8 Qd2f2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 Bd7e8 Ra1c1 Be8f7 Rh3g3 Kg8h8 Nc4d6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7xd6 Qf2e3 Ra8d8 a2a3 Qd6c7 b2b3 b7b6
    22/42  01:10   250.783.593  3.579.401  +0.85  Rf1f3 f7f5 Qd1d2 Rf8d8 Qd2f2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 Bd7e8 Ra1c1 Be8f7 Rh3g3 Kg8h8 Nc4d6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7xd6 Rc1e1 Kh8g8 Qf2b6 Qd6xf4 Qb6xb7 Qf4d4+ Kg1h1 Ra8d8 Qb7e7
    22/52+  01:54   419.243.066  3.674.476  +0.98  Bd3xh7+ Kg8xh7 Qd1d4
    22/62+  02:07   471.261.641  3.700.639  +1.09  Bd3xh7+
    22/63+  02:40   593.324.025  3.710.872  +1.27  Bd3xh7+
    22/77  03:47   831.936.406  3.660.000  +1.28  Bd3xh7+ Kg8xh7 b2b4 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5b7 Qd1h5+ Kh7g8 Nd6e4 f7f6 e5xf6 Qc7f7 Qh5g4 a6a5 Rf1f3 Nb7d6 f6xg7 Qf7xg7 Qg4xg7+ Kg8xg7 Ne4xd6 a5xb4 Kg1f2 c6c5 h2h4 Bc8d7 Nd6e4 c5c4 Ne4c5 Ra8a7 g2g4 Rf8c8 Nc5xd7 Ra7xd7 Kf2g3 Rc8a8 f4f5 e6xf5 Rf3xf5
    23/77+  04:19   962.619.005  3.705.887  +1.40  Bd3xh7+ Kg8xh7 b2b4 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5b7 Qd1h5+ Kh7g8 Nd6e4 f7f6 e5xf6 Qc7f7 Qh5g4 a6a5 Rf1f3 Nb7d6 f6xg7 Qf7xg7 Qg4xg7+ Kg8xg7 Ne4xd6 a5xb4 Kg1f2 c6c5 h2h4 Bc8d7 Nd6e4 c5c4 Ne4c5 Ra8a7 g2g4 Rf8c8 Nc5xd7 Ra7xd7 Kf2g3 Rc8a8 f4f5 e6xf5 Rf3xf5 Ra8a3+ Kg3f4 Rd7a7 Rf5g5+ Kg7f6
    23/77  04:46  1.061.268.433  3.712.766  +1.36  Bd3xh7+ Kg8xh7 b2b4 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5b7 Qd1h5+ Kh7g8 Nd6e4 f7f6 e5xf6 Qc7f7 Qh5g4 a6a5 Rf1f3 Nb7d6 f6xg7 Qf7xg7 Qg4xg7+ Kg8xg7 Ne4xd6 a5xb4 h2h4 Rf8h8 g2g3 Rh8h5 Rf3e3 Rh5c5 Re3e2 Bc8d7 Nd6e4 Rc5d5 g3g4 Ra8f8 Re2f2 Rd5d4 Ra1e1 Rf8a8 Ne4c5 Kg7f7 Nc5xd7 Rd4xd7 f4f5 e6xf5 Rf2xf5+ Kf7g7 Re1e6
    24/79-  07:06  1.618.932.310  3.799.222  +1.24  Bd3xh7+ Kg8xh7 b2b4 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5b7 Qd1h5+ Kh7g8 Nd6e4 f7f6 e5xf6 Qc7f7 Qh5g4 a6a5 Rf1f3 Nb7d6 f6xg7 Qf7xg7 Qg4xg7+ Kg8xg7 Ne4xd6 a5xb4 h2h4 Rf8h8 g2g3 Rh8h5 Rf3e3 Rh5c5 Re3e2 Bc8d7 Nd6e4 Rc5d5 g3g4 Ra8f8 Re2f2 Rd5d4 Ra1e1 Rf8a8 Ne4c5 Kg7f7 Nc5xd7 Rd4xd7 f4f5 e6xf5 Rf2xf5+ Kf7g7 Re1e6
    24/79-  09:21  2.166.290,190  3.856.846  +1.12  Bd3xh7+ Kg8xh7 b2b4 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5b7 Qd1h5+ Kh7g8 Nd6e4 f7f6 e5xf6 Qc7f7 Qh5g4 a6a5 Rf1f3 Nb7d6 f6xg7 Qf7xg7 Qg4xg7+ Kg8xg7 Ne4xd6 a5xb4 h2h4 Rf8h8 g2g3 Rh8h5 Rf3e3 Rh5c5 Re3e2 Bc8d7 Nd6e4 Rc5d5 g3g4 Ra8f8 Re2f2 Rd5d4 Ra1e1 Rf8a8 Ne4c5 Kg7f7 Nc5xd7 Rd4xd7 f4f5 e6xf5 Rf2xf5+ Kf7g7 Re1e6
   12/06/2010 12:33:25 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:10:20, Rated time: 10:20

0 of 1 matching moves
12/06/2010 12:33:26 PM, Total time: 12:31:37 AM
Rated time: 10:20 = 620 Seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analysis from Q:\x.epd  
12/06/2010 12:34:30 PM Level: 1800 Seconds
Analyzing engine: Critter_0.90_64bit

1) "Ciraev - Fallein, 1
    Avoid move:
    Best move (Critter_0.90_64bit): Rf1-f2
    Not found in: 30:00
     2/2  00:00           136  136.000  +0.38  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 Rf8d8
     3/4  00:00           588  588.000  +0.38  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 Rf8d8
     3/4  00:00           979  489.500  +0.58  a2a3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6
     4/4  00:00         1.349  674.500  +0.20  a2a3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Qc7b6+ Rf1f2
     4/5  00:00         1.924  641.333  +0.39  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Ra1c1
     5/7  00:00         2.727  909.000  +0.43  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Qf3f2 Qb6xf2+ Kg1xf2
     6/9  00:00         3.703  9.643  +0.43  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Qf3f2 Qb6xf2+ Kg1xf2
     6/9  00:00        12.856  18.497  +0.54  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Nc4d6 Qc7b6 b2b3 Ra8d8
     7/10  00:01        19.150  18.342  +0.65  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Rf2d2 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 Rd2xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1
     8/10  00:01        21.512  20.351  +0.60  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Rf2d2 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 Rd2xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 Qb6f2 Qd1d2
     9/12  00:01        28.669  26.718  +0.60  Rf1f2 Bc8d7 Rf2d2 b7b5 Nc4d6 Nc5xd3 Rd2xd3 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 Qb6f2 Qd1d2
     9/14  00:01        51.538  47.544  +0.70  Rf1f3 Rf8d8 Qd1d2 f7f5 e5xf6/ep g7xf6 Rf3g3+ Kg8h8 Ra1e1 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 b7b5
    10/18  00:01       129.724  115.618  +0.75  Rf1f3 Rf8d8 Qd1d2 f7f5 e5xf6/ep g7xf6 Ra1f1 Kg8h8 Qd2c3 Qc7e7 Nc4b6
    11/21  00:01       257.294  219.160  +0.70  Rf1f3 Rf8d8 Qd1d2 Nc5xd3 Ra1d1 Rd8d5 Rf3xd3 Bc8d7 Qd2f2 Ra8d8 Nc4d6 h7h6 Qf2a7 Rd5xd3 Rd1xd3
    12/33  00:04     1.092.614  254.926  +0.76  Ra1b1 h7h6 Nc4d6 Rf8d8 Qd1d2 Qc7b6 Rf1f2 Nc5xd3 Qd2xd3 Qb6a5 a2a3 Qa5d5 Rf2d2 Qd5xd3 Rd2xd3
    13/33  00:04     1.276.053  290.805  +0.76  Ra1b1 h7h6 Nc4d6 Rf8d8 Qd1d2 Qc7b6 Rf1f2 Nc5xd3 Qd2xd3 Qb6a5 a2a3 Qa5d5 Rf2d2 Qd5xd3 Rd2xd3
    14/33  00:05     3.120.033  641.586  +0.77  Ra1b1 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qd1d2 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 b7b6 Rb1c1 a6a5 Rf1f3 Bc8b7 Rf3g3 c6c5 d3d4 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7xd6
    15/33  00:06     6.528.141  1.070.713  +0.69  Ra1b1 b7b5 Nc4d6 Rf8d8 Qd1d2 Nc5xd3 Qd2xd3 Bc8b7 Rf1f3 c6c5 Rf3h3 h7h6 Rb1d1 c5c4 Qd3e3 Kg8h7 c2c3 a6a5 Rh3h5 Qc7c6 Qe3g3
    15/33+  00:07    10.003.280  1.383.962  +0.89  c2c3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qd1d2 b7b6 Ra1d1 a6a5 Rf1e1 Bc8a6 Bd3xa6 Ra8xa6 Qd2e3 Ra6a8 Qe3h3 Kg8h8 Qh3f3
    15/33  00:08    10.674.668  1.347.811  +0.89  c2c3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Rf1f2 b7b5 Bd3c2 Nc5b7 Rf2d2 Ra8a7 Bc2b3 Nb7xd6 Rd2xd6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 Qb6f2 Qd1e1 Qf2xe1+ Ra1xe1 Kg8f7 Kh1g1 Bc8d7 Kg1f2 Ra7a8 Bb3d1
    16/33  00:08    13.217.862  1.519.119  +0.89  c2c3 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Rf1f2 b7b5 Bd3c2 Nc5b7 Rf2d2 Ra8a7 Bc2b3 Nb7xd6 Rd2xd6 Rd8xd6 e5xd6 Qc7b6+ Kg1h1 Qb6f2 Qd1e1 Qf2xe1+ Ra1xe1 Kg8f7 Kh1g1 Bc8d7 Kg1f2 Ra7a8 Bb3d1
    17/41  00:15    38.224.603  2.557.342  +0.86  c2c3 Nc5xd3 Qd1xd3 b7b5 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Rf1f2 f7f6 Ra1f1 Kg8h8 Rf1d1 Bc8d7 Nd6e4 Ra8d8 e5xf6 g7xf6 c3c4 e6e5 c4c5 Qb6c7 Ne4d6 Bd7e6 b2b4 Qc7g7
    18/41  00:20    54.979.236  2.770.991  +0.92  c2c3 Nc5xd3 Qd1xd3 b7b5 Nc4d6 Qc7b6+ Rf1f2 f7f6 Qd3e2 Bc8d7 Ra1d1 Ra8d8 Rd1d3 Qb6a7 Qe2e4 Qa7b6 Rd3g3 f6f5 Qe4d4 c6c5 Qd4e3 Bd7c6 Rf2d2 Kg8h8
    19/41  00:26    80.114.512  3.037.747  +0.83  c2c3 Nc5xd3 Qd1xd3 b7b5 Nc4d6 c6c5 b2b3 Bc8b7 Ra1d1 Ra8d8 c3c4 Qc7c6 Rd1d2 f7f6 Qd3h3 Bb7c8 Rd2d1 Bc8d7 Qh3h5 b5xc4 b3xc4 Rd8b8 e5xf6
    20/64  01:01   213.379.536  3.469.642  +0.77  c2c3 b7b5 Nc4d6 Rf8d8 Rf1f3 f7f5 Bd3c2 Nc5b7 Rf3d3 Nb7xd6 Rd3xd6 Rd8xd6 Qd1xd6 Qc7xd6 e5xd6 Kg8f7 Ra1e1 Ra8a7 Bc2b3 c6c5 Kg1f2 c5c4 Bb3d1 Ra7d7 Bd1h5+ g7g6
    20/64  01:16   255.587.836  3.345.302  +0.84  Qd1f3 b7b5 Nc4d6 f7f6 Qf3e3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Ra1c1 Ra8d8 Qe3c5 Rd8a8 Qc5c3 Ra8d8 d3d4 Bd7e8 Qc3c5 Qc7e7 Nd6xe8 Qe7xe8 Qc5xc6 Rd8xd4 e5xf6 Qe8xc6 Rc1xc6 Rf8xf6 Rc6xa6
    21/64  01:45   350.760.134  3.321.906  +0.87  Qd1f3 b7b5 Nc4d6 f7f6 Qf3e3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Ra1c1 Ra8d8 Qe3c5 Rd8a8 Qc5c3 Qc7b6+ d3d4 Bd7e8 e5xf6 Rf8xf6 Rf1f2 Be8d7 Qc3e3 Qb6c7 Qe3e5
    22/64  02:09   444.289.187  3.426.200  +0.85  Qd1f3 b7b5 Nc4d6 f7f6 Qf3e3 Nc5xd3 c2xd3 Bc8d7 Ra1c1 Ra8d8 Qe3c5 Rd8a8 Qc5c3 Qc7b6+ d3d4 Bd7e8 e5xf6 Rf8xf6 Rf1f2 Be8d7 Nd6e4 Rf6f7 Ne4c5 Ra8d8 Qc3e3 Bd7c8 Nc5xe6 Bc8xe6 Qe3xe6 Qb6xd4 Rc1xc6
    23/65  06:51  1.541.016.686  3.749.660  +0.80  Qd1f3 Nc5xd3 Qf3xd3 c6c5 Rf1f3 Bc8d7 Rf3h3 h7h6 Qd3g3 Kg8h8 Nc4d6 c5c4 Qg3e3 Ra8d8 Ra1d1 b7b5 a2a4 Bd7c6 a4xb5 a6xb5 Qe3c5 f7f6
    23/65  11:26  2.616.949,829  3.814.999  +0.84  Ra1b1 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qd1d2 b7b5 Rb1d1 Bc8d7 Qd2f2 Qc7a7 Rd1d2 Nc5a4 Qf2xa7 Ra8xa7 c2c4 Na4b6 Rf1d1
    23/65  17:17  3.949.760,340  3.806.777  +0.92  Rf1f2 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qd1d2 b7b5 Ra1d1 Qc7a7 c2c3 Bc8d7 Qd2e2 Bd7e8 Qe2f3 Nc5xd3 Rd1xd3 a6a5 Qf3h3 b5b4 Rd3d4 c6c5 Rd4d1 Be8c6
    24/65  19:32  4.373.479,959  3.730.570  +0.90  Rf1f2 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qd1d2 b7b5 Ra1d1 Qc7a7 c2c3 Bc8d7 Bd3c2 Bd7e8 Qd2e3 Be8h5 Rd1d2 a6a5 Qe3h3 Bh5g6 Rd2d4 Rd8d7 Rf2d2
    25/65  24:30  5.499.052,022  3.740.870  +0.92  Rf1f2 Rf8d8 Nc4d6 f7f5 Qd1d2 b7b5 Ra1d1 Qc7b6 c2c4 Nc5b7 Bd3e2 Ra8b8 b2b3 a6a5 Qd2c1 b5b4 Be2h5 Nb7c5 Qc1e3 g7g6
   12/06/2010 1:04:33 PM, Time for this analysis: 00:30:00, Rated time: 30:00

0 of 1 matching moves
12/06/2010 1:04:34 PM, Total time: 12:30:03 AM
Rated time: 30:00 = 1800 Seconds
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2010-12-07 00:31
sure, but that looks like one of the luckiest searches of all time if it's been done with a clear hash. finding Bxh7 @ d9, 0:00 after 14kn or whatever seems suspect.  not accusing the poster of making anything more than a mistake, but if he'd like to fwd the engine info to me (i realize there are centain unemntionables here) i'd be happy to confirm...

re: critter, my results were similar to bigbens using multicore.  i do notice with one core Bh7 is in the top 10 in the aquarium pane (using single-pv), but i'm at a full minute &c3 is the preferred move. wonder if the poster could recheck & post results? one core results should be consistent thru depth (now at 2 minutes d21 & still no Bh7)
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-07 00:37
Tell me how to post AN and/or take snap shot. I'm not kidding not clearing hash with critter 0.90. I got it with in 30 seconds. I wouldn't say 0 seconds.
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2010-12-07 00:56
sure, you should be able to right click in the analysis pane & select something along the lines of "copy notation". then hit ctrl+V in the forum posting window.
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-07 00:39
Oh sorry I just realize who you was posting at. I still wouldn't mind posting. I just don't know how to post AN on here.
Parent - - By dcorbit (***) Date 2010-12-07 01:34
You may notice that it was found on my machine in 2 minutes using critter 090, then I reanalyzed at 30 min without clearing the hash and critter 090 never found it in the 1/2 hour.

These null move type problems are far more greatly affected by randomness than other sorts of problems.
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2010-12-07 01:40
i may be getting what you're saying...even single process searches are subject to randomness in these specific positions? rathionally the only engine i can envision seizing on Bxh7 instantly would be something like HIARCS which seems to have more king safety code than any other program...for several iterations now it will 'probe' weak spots around the king in its search just like a human would.  definitely my favorite thing about the engine.. but the unmentionables don't have that kind of coding.
Parent - By dcorbit (***) Date 2010-12-07 02:18
I guess that engines which use double null move (Vincent Diepeveen invention) will do well on this sort of problem.
Some engines may have this capability but require a UCI or Winboard ini file setting to enable it.
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2010-12-07 16:28

>sure, but that looks like one of the luckiest searches of all time if it's been done with a clear hash. finding Bxh7 @ d9, 0:00 after 14kn or whatever seems suspect


LUCKY!! 32bit engine and 2 cores I think someone should be doing the lottery this week

I have tried engines that can't be named and still no joy :lol:

Regards
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) Date 2010-12-07 16:41
This is very interesting. This position shouldn't be that hard, but it still runs into road blocks.
Parent - By ThudanBlunder (**) Date 2010-12-10 02:51

> I have tried engines that can't be named and still no joy :lol:


Me too; in one of the Mate in 8/12 threads I tried and indirectly mentioned an engine that can't be named, and had no joy except for that of having my post deleted.
Perhaps such references would be more acceptable and appropriate using reductio ad absurdum?
:
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) Date 2010-12-09 11:48

> sure, but that looks like one of the luckiest searches of all time if it's been done with a clear hash. finding Bxh7 @ d9, 0:00 after 14kn or whatever seems suspect.


You are referring to HarshQueen's posting, right? If you check some of his other postings you will get further evidence that something doesn't add up in his extremely "lucky" searches. I think it's pretty clear what game he is playing.
Parent - - By SpiderG (***) Date 2010-12-04 18:41
Just looking at the position, it is obvious that the tactical move would be Bxh7+, because there aren't really any other tactical moves. The only move I can see other than Bxh7+ would be Nd6 kind of scrunching the black position, but that isn't even a threat.
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2010-12-09 14:04
Hi,
    If you enter the values in the pic into zappa mex 2 it finds the move instantly
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-12-09 22:08
Isn't that Zappa Dissident? :smile:
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Test Positions / Which programs find this move?

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