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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Christian Packi Vs. Vytron
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- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-01 22:53
Thanks for accepting my challenge :smile:, good luck and have fun, that's what matters. I have picked the black pieces, so you can move.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-10-01 22:56
i for one will watch this game with interest.
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-01 23:09
Oh boy, where did I get myself into! :surprised:

Let me think about what I'm going to play first. Fyi I know you're trying to draw with black first and then crush me with white. Although you might play for a win even with black against me. :wink:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-01 23:17
Alright hf & gl.

1. Nf3
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-10-01 23:20
very ambitious.:grin:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-01 23:23
Haha I'm already building a fortress! :lol:

Tbh I just played what I usually play. No need to step on unknown territory.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-10-01 23:32
as you have noticed,i am an attacking player and play a different game.when i play team games it drives me crackers when these moves are made eg 1.Nf3 however this is all part of the fun.
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-01 23:50
I feel the pressure of having to play up to expectations :yell:

1. Nf3 Nf6
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-02 00:11
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-02 00:28
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-02 00:49
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-02 01:16
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-02 01:18
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-02 01:30
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6

rnbqkb1r/pp3ppp/2p1pn2/3p4/2PP4/2N2N2/PP2PPPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq -
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-02 01:46
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-02 02:55
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-02 13:56
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-04 23:43
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6

rnb1kb1r/pp3pp1/2p1pq1p/3p4/2PP4/2N2N2/PP2PPPP/R2QKB1R w KQkq -
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-10-04 23:59
you play to many games Uly.dont worry,and SF is not as good as Rybka esp on big HW.however i agree it does provide alternative lines to look at.bit like i used to use engine X.i think you may have a real battle on your hands here.have fun.:neutral:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-05 00:12
He made me so nervous I started looking at gxf6. :yell:
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-10-05 04:54
I can agree with you National on that SF is not as good at higher hardware. But if you mix its ideas with other engines you can come up some interesting lines. You can ask Vytron I came up with a line that is very crazy yet very sound. I would be surprised if you could have seen my idea. Of course to find the "good" interesting lines you have to use multiple engines.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-10-05 22:46
i agree and sometimes test your own ideas,which i find sometimes work.:smile:
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-10-06 03:51
i'll sent you 2 messages. 1.with the position and 2.my AN to see if you can find the idea
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-05 00:07
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-05 23:20

>you play to many games Uly


But sometimes it is critical that I do it, for instance in my games against ppipper and Mark Elridge that I won, I made heavy use of a new technique that I developed in another concurrent game, had I played those games sequentially instead of simultaneously, I wouldn't have learned that in time and Mark and ppipper would have drawn their games against me.

The same goes for new released engines that I can use immediately in all of my ongoing games, so let's say playing this many games is part of the fun. Of course sometimes I have too many games going on, but right now I'm fine, I didn't manage to look at any of my games at Saturday or Sunday because I was busy IRL, but that would have happened even if I just had a single game going.

Also, I'm very suspect that Christian and me are very afraid of each other! :smile:

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-06 14:37
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-07 07:38
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O

rnb2rk1/pp3pp1/2pbpq1p/3p4/2PP4/2NBPN2/PP3PPP/R2QK2R w KQ -
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-07 13:05
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. 0-0
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-08 16:21
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-08 22:23
In order to speed things up I'm giving some conditionals.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5

if Bc7 then e4

and if dxe4 then Nxe4
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2010-10-09 07:14
interesting game.its the sort of white position i like to play although no doubt defensible by black,white has the easier game.:smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-10 02:03
Well, I'm happy with my position, though my chances of winning are probably 0, I've only won as black games where my opponents played some odd move in the opening at one point and I took advantage of it, here Christian didn't let a small space of breathing air for that, but the position seems simplified enough that I don't think I'll run into trouble, let's see how it goes.

I'm going to accept the first conditional since it's forced, but I'm still unsure of capturing the pawn, there's plenty of options.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4

My turn again.
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-10 02:41
Surprise me! :grin:
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-10 03:33
Heh, none of them were good, so I'm going to accept your other conditional.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Nxe4

My turn again.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-11 00:25
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Nxe4 b6
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-11 17:58
Fyi stockfish crashed and I lost a lot of my analysis. I might take a couple days for this move.
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-12 02:26 Edited 2010-10-12 13:39
Turned out stockfish gui couldn’t handle the ever growing .pgn file. Here is my move.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Nxe4 b6 13. Qe2

rnb2rk1/p1b1qpp1/1pp1p2p/2P5/3PN3/3B1N2/PP2QPPP/R4RK1 b - - 1 13
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-13 09:39
I'm sorry to hear about the crash and loss of analysis, and glad that you were able to sort it out within hours.

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Nxe4 b6 13. Qe2 Rd8
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-13 17:48
What needs to happen for you to make a wrong move?
Parent - - By keoki010 (Silver) [us] Date 2010-10-13 19:56
:lol: A massive blunder... :yell: He doesn't make many ... wrong ... moves. :smile:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-13 20:02
How am I supposed to win then!? :wink:
Parent - - By keoki010 (Silver) [us] Date 2010-10-13 20:53
Make a better move than his best! :lol::twisted:
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-10-13 21:53
Well sometimes if you know what method your opponent is using. You can find a hole in it if you know what to look for. In this case that would be almost impossible to do because Vytron has so many methods. The other way which is fun to do. Is find a move that engines do not expected to come and make a position unclear and find the stocking move at the end to give you advantage. The latter idea is not so easily to do. I use many engines (between 15 to 20) to find the moves. Another thing about the latter is to have good chess knowledge.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-14 01:39 Edited 2010-10-14 01:44

> What needs to happen for you to make a wrong move?


I'll be frank, I'm a very lousy patzer, which means I'm strongly dependent on engines. That is, if ALL engines love a position I'll go for it, no matter what analysis method I use, all my methods run about that idea (maximizing evaluation and trying to make sure I could win the position/at least draw from it).

So, to beat me, you just have to reach a deep position that no engine understands, and you'll almost have guaranteed that I won't understand it either. Basically, a position that looks like this on infinite analysis:

-0.60
-0.40
-0.52
-0.40
-0.20
-0.24
-0.10
0.00
0.00
0.04
0.16
0.00
0.30
0.50

As long as that position is deep, I have no useful method to avoid it, I look relatively shallow at positions, so I'd probably just "prune" that position and think "Oh, the position is -0.24, he's not going to play it as white", then when we're on it, you already have a great advantage.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-28 01:37

> So, to beat me, you just have to reach a deep position that no engine understands, and you'll almost have guaranteed that I won't understand it either. Basically, a position that looks like this on infinite analysis:
>
> -0.60
> -0.40
> -0.52
> -0.40
> -0.20
> -0.24
> -0.10
> 0.00
> 0.00
> 0.04
> 0.16
> 0.00
> 0.30
> 0.50


The positions at the end of the lines look just like this! :yell:
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-28 01:38
I guess I succeeded then. :lol:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-14 20:48
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Nxe4 b6 13. Qe2 Rd8 14. b4

rnbr2k1/p1b1qpp1/1pp1p2p/2P5/1P1PN3/3B1N2/P3QPPP/R4RK1 b - - 0 14
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-15 18:24
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 d5 4. Nc3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 Qxf6 7. e3 Bd6 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. c5 Bc7 11. e4 dxe4 12. Nxe4 b6 13. Qe2 Rd8 14. b4 a5
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-15 19:10
I know this sounds silly but I posted the wrong move. I can no longer win now. Draw offer.
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-15 19:19
Ignore my previous post. I was just to upset about myself for a minute. I will play on.
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Christian Packi Vs. Vytron
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