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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Hello To Rybka Community. "Father"
- - By Father (**) Date 2007-08-04 04:06
Hello everybody.

I hope to enjoy this forum, and put some things that get to us some happy.

Regards,

Father
Pablo

MAN VERSUS MACHINE


[Event "Partida evaluada, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Father"]
[Black "FightingKING1"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "2025"]
[BlackElo "2615"]
[Annotator "Restrepo,Pablo Ignac"]
[PlyCount "427"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]

1. d4 {1} d5 {0.00/0 0} 2. e3 {0} Nf6 {0.00/0 0} 3. c3 {0} Nc6 {-0.22/12 8} 4.
f4 {10} Bf5 {-0.35/12 4} 5. Nf3 {3} e6 {4} 6. Bd3 {-0.24/13 0} Be7 {-0.20/13 8}
7. O-O {6} O-O {-0.12/12 11} 8. Qc2 {1} Qd7 {-0.21/12 5} 9. Re1 {1} Bxd3 {3}
10. Qxd3 {-0.22/11 0} Ne4 {-0.21/12 3} 11. Nbd2 {1} f5 {-0.19/11 1} 12. Nf1 {1}
Rf6 {-0.42/9 4} 13. Re2 {1} Rg6 {-0.51/9 5} 14. g3 {0} a5 {-0.69/10 5} 15. Rg2
{2} a4 {-0.75/9 3} 16. a3 {1} Bf6 {-0.80/10 4} 17. Qe2 {2} Nd6 {-0.80/12 3} 18.
Kh1 {1} Na5 {-0.79/12 3} 19. N3d2 {2} Qc6 {-0.86/11 4} 20. Qd3 {2} Qb6 {
-1.14/10 2} 21. Kg1 {2} Rc8 {-0.98/12 16} 22. Kh1 {1} c5 {-1.07/11 2} 23. Kg1 {
1} Rg4 {-1.11/10 3} 24. Kh1 {2} Kf8 {-1.07/10 2} 25. Qe2 {3} Rg6 {-0.99/11 1}
26. Qd3 {1} Kf7 {-1.11/11 2} 27. Qe2 {1} Kg8 {-1.00/11 2} 28. Qd3 {1} Re8 {
-1.11/9 2} 29. Qe2 {1} Be7 {-0.99/10 1} 30. Qd3 {1} Rh6 {-1.03/9 2} 31. Qe2 {2}
c4 {-1.05/9 2} 32. Kg1 {3} Rc8 {-0.89/11 3} 33. Qe1 {1} Bf6 {-0.98/9 1} 34. Qe2
{1} Rg6 {-0.90/10 1} 35. Qe1 {1} Qb5 {-0.97/9 2} 36. Qe2 {1} Re8 {-0.97/11 2}
37. Qe1 {1} Nb3 {-0.98/9 1} 38. Ra2 {5} Rd8 {-1.00/9 2} 39. Qd1 {1} Rg4 {
-0.98/9 1} 40. Qc2 {1} Ra8 {-0.94/8 2} 41. Qd1 {1} Qd7 {-0.95/9 2} 42. Qc2 {1}
Na5 {-0.93/8 2} 43. Qd1 {1} Re8 {-0.93/10 1} 44. Qc2 {1} Qb5 {-0.92/10 1} 45.
Qd1 {1} Rc8 {-0.93/10 1} 46. Qc2 {1} Rg6 {-0.93/11 6} 47. Qd1 {1} Nb3 {
-0.94/9 1} 48. Qc2 {1} Qd7 {-0.93/8 1} 49. Qd1 {1} Rc6 {-0.99/8 1} 50. Qc2 {1}
Rc7 {-0.92/8 1} 51. Qd1 {1} Rc8 {-0.94/8 1} 52. Qc2 {1} Qb5 {-0.93/8 1} 53. Qd1
{1} Nf7 {-0.94/9 1} 54. Qc2 {1} Qb6 {-0.92/9 1} 55. Qd1 {1} Qc7 {-0.93/9 1} 56.
Qc2 {1} Rd8 {-0.92/8 1} 57. Qd1 {1} b5 {-0.94/9 1} 58. Qc2 {1} Nd6 {-0.92/8 1}
59. Qd1 {1} Rg4 {-1.01/7 1} 60. Qc2 {1} Qb7 {-0.95/7 0} 61. Qd1 {1} Rc8 {
-0.96/7 1} 62. Nf3 {6} Qb6 {-0.92/12 0} 63. Qc2 {1} Qc7 {-0.92/8 0} 64. Bd2 {2}
Ne4 {-0.92/8 1} 65. Be1 {1} Rg6 {-0.88/7 1} 66. N3d2 {4} Nd6 {-0.92/6 0} 67.
Nf3 {1} Ra8 {-0.86/9 1} 68. N3d2 {1} Re8 {-0.95/5 0} 69. Nf3 {1} Qf7 {
-0.87/10 0} 70. N3d2 {1} Rh6 {-0.97/8 0} 71. Nf3 {1} Rh3 {-0.97/12 0} 72. N3d2
{1} Qh5 {-1.14/7 1} 73. Qb1 {. 26} Na5 {-0.96/8 0} 74. Ra1 {6} Rc8 {-0.85/13 0}
75. Qc2 {1} Nc6 {-0.87/7 0} 76. Rd1 {1} Rb8 {-1.11/6 0} 77. Qc1 {1} Qg4 {
-1.18/7 0} 78. Qc2 {1} Rb7 {-0.93/9 0} 79. Nb1 {3} Qh5 {-0.98/6 0} 80. Qe2 {1}
Qf7 {-0.79/7 0} 81. Rc1 {1} Rb8 {-0.89/6 0} 82. Rc2 {0} Rh6 {-0.97/6 0} 83. Kh1
{1} Kh8 {0} 84. Kg1 {-1.15/6 0} Rg6 {-0.78/8 0} 85. Qf2 {1} Kg8 {0} 86. Qe2 {
-1.28/7 0} Rg4 {-0.93/7 0} 87. Qf3 {0} Qc7 {0} 88. Qe2 {-1.21/7 0} Nd8 {
-1.00/7 0} 89. Qf3 {0} Qb6 {0} 90. Qe2 {-1.07/7 0} Nc6 {0} 91. Qf3 {-0.89/8 0}
Rb7 {0} 92. Qe2 {-1.17/7 0} Na5 {0} 93. Qf3 {-1.14/5 0} Rd7 {-1.09/3 0} 94. Qe2
{0} Rg6 {-1.04/4 0} 95. Qd1 {1} Nc6 {-1.11/4 0} 96. Qe2 {0} Rd8 {0} 97. Qd1 {
-1.27/1 0} Re8 {0} 98. Qe2 {-1.15/4 0} Rg4 {-1.24/1 0} 99. Qd1 {0} h6 {
-1.28/3 0} 100. Qe2 {0} Kh7 {-1.11/4 0} 101. Qd1 {1} Rd8 {0} 102. Qe2 {
-1.19/3 0} Rh8 {-1.13/3 0} 103. Qd1 {0} Re8 {0} 104. Qe2 {-0.99/4 0} Na5 {
-1.03/5 0} 105. Qd1 {0} Ra8 {-1.09/3 0} 106. Qe2 {0} Qc7 {-1.10/5 0} 107. Qd1 {
0} Kg8 {-1.03/4 0} 108. Qe2 {0} Nc6 {-1.12/2 0} 109. Qf3 {0} Rc8 {0} 110. Qe2 {
-1.15/4 0} Qd7 {-1.02/4 0} 111. Qf3 {0} Ra8 {0} 112. Qe2 {-1.13/4 0} Kh7 {0}
113. Qf3 {-1.15/2 0} Qf7 {-1.09/4 0} 114. Qe2 {0} Kg8 {0} 115. Qf3 {-1.13/2 0}
Rd8 {0} 116. Qe2 {-1.18/5 0} Rd7 {-1.07/4 0} 117. Qf3 {0} Qe8 {0} 118. Qe2 {
-1.06/4 0} Qa8 {-1.10/4 0} 119. Qf3 {0} Qa7 {-1.06/4 0} 120. Qe2 {0} Kh7 {
-1.12/3 0} 121. Qf3 {0} Qb6 {0} 122. Qe2 {-1.19/1 0} Rg6 {0} 123. Qf3 {
-0.93/4 0} Rf7 {-1.10/2 0} 124. Qe2 {0} Kg8 {0} 125. Qf3 {-0.87/4 0} Rf8 {
-1.06/4 0} 126. Qe2 {0} Rc8 {-1.19/1 0} 127. Qf3 {0} Rb8 {0} 128. Qe2 {
-1.06/4 0} Rg4 {-1.09/1 0} 129. Qf3 {1} Rd8 {-1.06/4 0} 130. Qe2 {0} Qa6 {
-1.03/4 0} 131. Qf3 {0} Qa5 {-1.06/4 0} 132. Qe2 {0} Qb6 {-1.06/3 0} 133. Qf3 {
0} Qc7 {0} 134. Qe2 {-1.02/4 0} Na5 {-1.12/3 0} 135. Qf3 {0} Rf8 {-1.06/3 0}
136. Qe2 {0} Rf7 {-1.04/4 0} 137. Qf3 {0} Nc6 {-1.02/4 0} 138. Qe2 {0} Rd7 {
-1.04/4 0} 139. Qf3 {0} Qa5 {-1.06/4 0} 140. Qe2 {0} Kf8 {-1.02/4 0} 141. Qf3 {
0} Qb6 {-1.03/2 0} 142. Qe2 {0} Kf7 {-1.02/3 0} 143. Qf3 {0} Rd8 {-1.03/3 0}
144. Qe2 {0} Qc7 {-1.14/5 0} 145. Qf3 {0} Re8 {0} 146. Qe2 {-1.06/3 0} Rf8 {
-1.05/3 0} 147. Qf3 {0} Ra8 {0} 148. Qe2 {-1.03/4 0} Qd7 {0} 149. Qf3 {
-1.15/1 0} b4 {-0.57/5 0} 150. Qe2 {0} b3 {-1.16/4 0} 151. Rd2 {2} Kg8 {
-1.20/4 0} 152. Qf2 {1} Ne4 {0} 153. Qe2 {-1.87/5 0} Nxd2 {-1.61/8 0} 154. Qxd2
{0} Be7 {-2.11/4 0} 155. Qe2 {0} Rb8 {-1.82/4 0} 156. Kh1 {1} Qe8 {0} 157. Kg1
{-1.81/5 0} Rb5 {0} 158. Kh1 {-1.87/5 0} Bd6 {-1.76/3 0} 159. Kg1 {0} Qf7 {0}
160. Kh1 {-1.79/4 0} Qf6 {-1.81/3 0} 161. Kg1 {0} Ra5 {0} 162. Kh1 {-1.79/4 0}
Ra7 {-1.87/3 0} 163. Kg1 {0} Ra8 {0} 164. Kh1 {-1.80/4 0} Ra6 {0} 165. Kg1 {
-1.82/2 0} Kh8 {0} 166. Kh1 {-1.76/4 0} Ra7 {-1.67/4 0} 167. Kg1 {0} Rb7 {
-1.70/4 0} 168. Kh1 {0} Kh7 {-1.83/3 0} 169. Kg1 {0} Na5 {-1.73/4 0} 170. Kh1 {
0} Qd8 {-1.65/4 0} 171. Kg1 {0} Rf7 {-1.76/3 0} 172. Kh1 {0} Nc6 {-1.74/4 0}
173. Kg1 {0} Kg8 {-1.81/3 0} 174. Kh1 {0} Qa5 {0} 175. Kg1 {-1.79/4 0} Rd7 {
-1.86/3 0} 176. Kh1 {0} Kh7 {0} 177. Kg1 {-1.83/3 0} Rd8 {-1.90/3 0} 178. Kh1 {
0} Rg6 {-2.07/1 0} 179. Kg1 {0} Kg8 {-1.82/2 0} 180. Kh1 {0} Kf7 {-2.04/1 0}
181. Kg1 {0} Rg4 {-1.76/4 0} 182. Kh1 {0} Be7 {-2.07/1 0} 183. Kg1 {0} Rg6 {0}
184. Kh1 {-2.05/1 0} Qb6 {-1.68/2 0} 185. Kg1 {0} Rg4 {-1.90/1 0} 186. Kh1 {0}
Bd6 {-1.64/5 0} 187. Kg1 {0} Ra8 {0} 188. Kh1 {-2.20/1 0} Qb7 {-1.86/2 0} 189.
Kg1 {0} Rg6 {-2.11/1 0} 190. Kh1 {0} Rf6 {-2.00/1 0} 191. Kg1 {0} Kg8 {
-2.02/1 0} 192. Kh1 {0} Qb5 {-2.11/1 0} 193. Kg1 {0} Rg6 {-1.93/1 0} 194. Kh1 {
1} Re8 {-2.12/1 0} 195. Kg1 {0} Qb6 {-2.21/1 0} 196. Kh1 {0} Rg4 {-1.96/1 0}
197. Kg1 {0} Rc8 {-2.26/1 0} 198. Kh1 {0} Be7 {-2.16/1 0} 199. Kg1 {0} Re8 {
-2.22/1 0} 200. Kh1 {0} Rg6 {-2.09/1 0} 201. Kg1 {0} Rf6 {-1.91/1 0} 202. Kh1 {
0} g6 {-1.92/1 0} 203. Kg1 {0} Rf7 {-1.95/1 0} 204. Kh1 {0} Bd6 {-1.93/1 0}
205. Kg1 {0} Kg7 {-2.12/1 0} 206. Kh1 {0} Ne7 {-1.95/1 0} 207. Kg1 {0} Rc8 {
-1.89/1 0} 208. Kh1 {0} Qc6 {-1.93/1 0} 209. Qf3 {1} Qb6 {-1.95/1 0} 210. h3 {2
} Nc6 {-1.92/1 0} 211. Kh2 {1} Rd8 {-1.92/1 0} 212. Kh1 {1} Qb5 {-2.17/1 0}
213. Kg1 {1} Re8 {-2.08/1 0} 214. Kh2 {Time  (Lag: Av=0.50s, max=1.6s) 0} 1-0

[D]
4r3/5rk1/2nbp1pp/1q1p1p2/p1pP1P2/PpP1PQPP/1P4RK/1N2BN2 b - - 0 214
Parent - By Hetman (*****) Date 2007-08-04 05:23
That it is ! :-)
Regards
Hetman
Parent - - By kaustubh (**) Date 2007-08-04 07:56
hello father,
                    have played against rybka , what are your views about rybka.
Parent - By Father (**) Date 2007-08-04 14:02
Hello Kaustubh,
Yes I did.
Rybka is the strongest  machine in the Earth now. Its power is incredible. Rybka Looks playing as a  Jose Raul Capablanca, Karpov, and Kasparov at same time. Not in a hurry. Thinking in the endgame, taking control of all, but in special with its pawns, looking for the promotion in the "line 8".
I am very happy to have had the chance to play against that kind of Master.  The chance for me of have lived in this time, when the computers to exist. Y knew the two eras; before and after chess and computers at home. Computers have changed all our life. Many miths have ended.
When I was 17 years old was close to be imposible for me and many people to have a chance for  fight against a "2.000 Fide" chess elo;  that was in the dreams space; now it is not necesary to think in Fide or in all the humans beings that are playing chess for being playing against a Word Chess Champion. Rybka or other good chess machine at home is enoght.
For that reason, I say with all respect: " Thank you very mutch for all teams or cosntructors of chess machines"
Regards,
Pablo
Father
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2007-08-04 17:07
As with so many of these games, you could truncate the move list at move 20 and simply say..."and white went on to win on time".
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-08-04 17:18
I see this as a draw, but its a real contribution to the forum in that Vas will have to work on either having Rybka do a better job avoiding these types of positions, or recognize them and look for ways to trade material for opening up the position, or at least play fast enough to avoid losing on time (maybe by just shuffling a piece around in a totally closed position).

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Psilocybe (**) Date 2007-08-04 22:30
Pablo's posts are a contribution, but one always "decorated" with childish nonsense. I already put this dude in my ignore list.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 00:25
Sure it's nonsense, but Pablo has spent a lot of time working on perfecting this nonsense, so in my opinion he has the right to do his little dance when he succeeds. Reminds me of Mohamed Ali 30 years ago.

Alan
Parent - By Hetman (*****) Date 2007-08-05 09:08
Hi,

i am not sure if it is nonsense.

It is the proper strategy vs this type of opponent (chess programm). I think it is not easy to play such way in details. One unprecisely played move and you may loose. It is the art of play like the others. Why Rybka has not played Father but Ehlvest ? ;-)

Regards
Hetman
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-08-04 18:58
     I already have a cure for this sort of draw in mind. We need to address this problem fairly soon, as there will probably be one or more draw-odds matches with GMs and we can't have games drawn this way. I predict that when version 3.0 comes out, you won't be able to draw games with Rybka this way anymore, at least if you set the contempt factor to a decent level.
Parent - - By Graham Banks (*****) Date 2007-08-04 19:54
I can't speak for others, but one shouldn't need to fiddle with the contempt factor.
Parent - By Henrik Dinesen (***) Date 2007-08-04 21:30
Tend to agree Graham, just like the "opponent is human" setting in Tiger.
But lets keep in mind, that these positions arises from some relatively predictable moves in the earlier stages of the game...;)
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-08-04 21:52
     In the future, we may just set some modest contempt value as the default. But you have a good point; if Rybka has any positional edge, she should not lock up the game and make a draw, even with zero contempt set.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-08-05 06:30
Here's another one.

r4r2/6k1/2qnpbpp/1p1p1p2/2pP1P2/PpP1PNP1/1P4RP/1RB1Q1K1 b - - 0 28


[Event "3m + 0s, rated"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.08.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "GRAND-FATHER"]
[Black "Brummbär, Rybka 2.3.2a mp 32-"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A03"]
[WhiteElo "2258"]
[BlackElo "2632"]
[PlyCount "339"]
[EventDate "2007.08.03"]
[EventType "blitz"]

1. d4 {1} d5 {B/0 0} 2. e3 {1} Nc6 {-0.06/13 6} 3. f4 {(Sf3) 16} Nf6 {
-0.11/12 4} 4. Nf3 {0} g6 {-0.02/12 6} 5. c3 {(Ld2) 0} Bf5 {-0.24/13 6} 6. Bd3
{0} Qd7 {-0.13/13 9} 7. O-O {0} Bg7 {-0.09/13 9} 8. Qc2 {(Se5) 0} Bxd3 {
-0.09/12 9} 9. Qxd3 {0} O-O {-0.14/13 7} 10. Re1 {(Sbd2) 1} a5 {-0.19/11 4} 11.
Nbd2 {1} a4 {-0.14/11 3} 12. a3 {(Se5) 1} Rfd8 {-0.30/11 3} 13. Nf1 {(Se5) 4}
Ne4 {-0.38/11 3} 14. N3d2 {(S1d2) 1} f5 {-0.43/11 2} 15. Nf3 {(Sxe4) 2} Bf6 {
-0.51/10 3} 16. Re2 {(S1d2) 0} Na5 {-0.59/9 2} 17. g3 {(S1d2) 0} Nb3 {-0.67/9 2
} 18. Rb1 {1} c5 {-0.65/9 2} 19. N3d2 {(S1d2) 2} h6 {-0.85/8 4} 20. Nxb3 {2}
axb3 {-0.74/13 1} 21. Qd1 {(Te1) 1} c4 {-0.75/12 2} 22. Nd2 {3} Nd6 {-0.77/13 1
} 23. Nf3 {1} Kg7 {-0.73/12 3} 24. Qf1 {(Ld2) 2} e6 {-0.75/10 2} 25. Rg2 {
(Dh3) 1} Rf8 {-0.77/10 2} 26. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Qc6 {-0.78/9 3} 27. Qe1 {(Kg1) 1}
b5 {-0.75/10 3} 28. Kg1 {(De2) 1} Qc7 {-0.75/11 3} 29. Kh1 {(De2) 1} Rfe8 {
-0.75/9 2} 30. Kg1 {(De2) 1} Rh8 {-0.75/10 1} 31. Kh1 {(De2) 1} Ra7 {-0.75/10 2
} 32. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Kh7 {-0.75/10 1} 33. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Qd7 {-0.75/9 1} 34. Kg1
{(De2) 0} Rc8 {-0.73/11 3} 35. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Kg7 {-0.75/10 1} 36. Kg1 {(De2) 0}
Ra6 {-0.76/9 1} 37. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Rb6 {-0.74/9 2} 38. Kg1 {(Tg1) 0} Qe7 {
-0.72/10 2} 39. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Ra6 {-0.74/10 2} 40. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Qc7 {
-0.74/10 1} 41. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Ra4 {-0.74/9 1} 42. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Kh7 {-0.73/10 3
} 43. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Ra7 {-0.74/10 2} 44. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Re8 {-0.73/11 3} 45. Kh1
{(De2) 0} Qc6 {-0.75/9 1} 46. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Qb6 {-0.74/10 1} 47. Kh1 {(De2) 0}
Be7 {-0.78/9 1} 48. Kg1 {(De2) 1} Ne4 {-0.75/10 0} 49. Kh1 {(Sd2) 2} Kg7 {
-0.80/9 1} 50. Kg1 {(Ld2) 1} Bf6 {-0.78/9 1} 51. Kh1 {(Ld2) 0} Rea8 {-0.82/8 1}
52. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Rc7 {-0.82/9 1} 53. Kh1 {(Sd2) 0} Kg8 {-0.82/8 1} 54. Kg1 {0}
Kh7 {-0.78/9 0} 55. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Kg7 {-0.80/8 1} 56. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Rf7 {
-0.78/10 1} 57. Kh1 {(De2) 0} Rc8 {-0.80/7 1} 58. Kg1 {0} Re8 {-0.77/9 0} 59.
Kh1 {(De2) 0} Rd7 {-0.81/8 1} 60. Kg1 {(De2) 0} Ra8 {-0.77/10 1} 61. Kh1 {
(De2) 0} Kg8 {-0.78/8 1} 62. Kg1 {(De2) 0} g5 {-0.78/9 1} 63. Kh1 {(h3) 0} g4 {
-0.91/8 0} 64. Ng1 {(Sd2) 2} Kf7 {-1.17/8 1} 65. Ne2 {(Ld2) 0} h5 {-1.18/10 1}
66. Kg1 {(h4) 1} Rh8 {-1.44/9 1} 67. Qf1 {(Ld2) 2} h4 {-1.43/7 0} 68. Qe1 {
(gxh4) 1} h3 {-1.92/12 1} 69. Rf2 {1} Nxf2 {-1.87/13 0} 70. Kxf2 {(Dxf2) 1} Kg6
{-1.99/9 0} 71. Kg1 {(Ld2) 1} Ra7 {-1.98/13 0} 72. Qd2 {(Ld2) 2} Qd6 {
-2.05/10 1} 73. Qe1 {1} Re8 {-2.05/14 1} 74. Qd2 {(Df2) 0} Rc8 {-2.05/10 0} 75.
Qe1 {0} Kf7 {-2.05/14 0} 76. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Ke8 {-2.05/11 0} 77. Qe1 {0} Kd7 {
-2.05/15 0} 78. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Kc6 {-2.05/11 1} 79. Qe1 {0} Kb6 {-2.05/14 0} 80.
Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rg8 {-2.05/9 0} 81. Qe1 {0} Rf7 {-2.05/13 0} 82. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0}
Rb7 {-2.05/10 0} 83. Qe1 {0} Ra8 {-2.05/14 0} 84. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Ka5 {-2.05/10 0
} 85. Qe1 {1} Rd7 {-2.05/17 0} 86. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rc8 {-2.05/11 0} 87. Qe1 {
(Dd1) 0} Kb6 {-2.05/12 0} 88. Qd2 {(Df2) 0} Ra7 {-2.05/10 0} 89. Qe1 {0} Qc6 {
-2.05/14 0} 90. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rca8 {-2.05/10 1} 91. Qe1 {(Dd1) 0} Qd7 {
-2.05/12 0} 92. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Ra4 {-1.85/10 0} 93. Qe1 {0} Rc8 {-2.05/15 0} 94.
Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rg8 {-2.05/10 0} 95. Qe1 {0} Qd6 {-2.05/16 0} 96. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0}
Raa8 {-2.05/10 0} 97. Qe1 {0} Kb7 {-2.05/15 0} 98. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Kc6 {-1.85/8 0
} 99. Qe1 {(Dd1) 0} Kc7 {-2.05/11 0} 100. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Ra4 {-2.05/10 0} 101.
Qe1 {(Dd1) 0} Ra7 {-2.05/11 0} 102. Qd2 {(Df2) 0} Kc6 {-2.05/10 0} 103. Qe1 {
(Dd1) 0} Re8 {-2.05/11 0} 104. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rh7 {-1.85/6 0} 105. Qe1 {(Dd1) 0}
Kb7 {-1.85/8 0} 106. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rc8 {-1.85/2 0} 107. Qe1 {0} Rf7 {-2.05/14 0
} 108. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rfc7 {-1.85/5 0} 109. Qe1 {0} Rf8 {-2.05/15 0} 110. Qd2 {
(Ld2) 0} Ra8 {-1.85/2 0} 111. Qe1 {0} Rh7 {-2.05/15 0} 112. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Kb6 {
-1.85/4 0} 113. Qe1 {0} Re8 {-2.05/15 0} 114. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Rf8 {-1.85/4 0}
115. Qe1 {(Dd1) 0} Rc7 {-2.05/8 0} 116. Qd2 {(Ld2) 0} Ra8 {-1.85/6 0} 117. Qe1
{0} Rg8 {-2.05/13 0} 118. Qd2 {(Df2) 0} Rh7 {-1.85/4 0} 119. Qe1 {(Dd1) 0} b4 {
-1.26/4 0} 120. cxb4 {2} Kc7 {-1.02/11 0} 121. Qc3 {(Sc3) 2} Ra8 {-1.29/4 0}
122. Kf1 {(Ld2) 2} Qb6 {-1.56/5 0} 123. Kg1 {(Ld2) 1} Kd6 {-1.40/3 0} 124. Kf1
{(Ld2) 0} Rc7 {-1.40/2 0} 125. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Rc6 {-1.48/5 0} 126. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0}
Rcc8 {-1.53/5 0} 127. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Rg8 {-1.46/6 0} 128. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Ra7 {
-1.53/5 0} 129. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Kd7 {-1.44/5 0} 130. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rb8 {-1.36/3 0
} 131. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Kd8 {-1.43/5 0} 132. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Qc6 {-1.35/1 0} 133.
Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Ke7 {-1.35/4 0} 134. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Kf7 {-1.53/5 0} 135. Kg1 {
(Ld2) 0} Kg7 {-1.50/5 0} 136. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Kg6 {-1.40/3 0} 137. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0}
Rba8 {-1.52/7 0} 138. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Qd6 {-1.40/4 0} 139. Kg1 {(Ke1) 0} Rb7 {
-1.51/5 0} 140. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Qb6 {-1.39/3 0} 141. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Qb5 {-1.50/5 0
} 142. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Qa6 {-1.38/2 0} 143. Kg1 {(Ke1) 0} Qc6 {-1.35/4 0} 144.
Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rc7 {-1.40/2 0} 145. Kg1 {(Ke1) 0} Qb5 {-1.35/3 0} 146. Kf1 {
(Ld2) 0} Rb8 {-1.40/3 0} 147. Kg1 {(Ke1) 0} Ra7 {-1.37/3 0} 148. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0}
Rd8 {-1.51/1 0} 149. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Qb6 {-1.47/6 0} 150. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rf8 {
-1.48/1 0} 151. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Qd6 {-1.50/6 0} 152. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rc8 {-1.37/2 0
} 153. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Rb8 {-1.51/7 0} 154. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rb6 {-1.37/2 0} 155.
Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Qc6 {-1.41/6 0} 156. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rb5 {-1.37/3 1} 157. Kg1 {
(Ld2) 0} Rb8 {-1.50/5 0} 158. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Qd6 {-1.66/1 0} 159. Kg1 {(Dxb3) 0}
Qb6 {-1.50/5 0} 160. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Qb5 {-1.35/4 0} 161. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Qd7 {
-1.50/6 0} 162. Kf1 {(Ld2) 1} Rc7 {-1.35/5 0} 163. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Qb5 {-1.42/6 0
} 164. Kf1 {(Ld2) 0} Rd7 {-1.35/4 0} 165. Kg1 {(Ld2) 0} Ra8 {-1.54/1 0} 166.
Kf1 {(Dxb3) 0} Rh7 {-1.65/1 0} 167. Kg1 {(Dxb3) 0} Rf7 {-1.53/1 0} 168. Kf1 {
(Dxb3) 0} Rd7 {-1.64/1 0} 169. Kg1 {(Dxb3) 0} Rh7 {-1.54/1 0} 170. Kf1 {
(Dxb3) 0} 1/2-1/2
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 15:48
Have you won or drawn any of these sorts of games with longer time controls (e.g. game in 15 minutes or more) or with increment?
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2007-08-05 16:39
Maybe a pre-set contempt factor may not be necessary. Things might also be achieved by "opponent-modelling". It is often said that the problem here for engines is to realize that they are playing against a relatively weak opponent  (and thus, that their main immediate goal should be to provent any drawish set-up from happening, so that they can ensure their "just" win).

So maybe this can be achieved straightforwardly by setting up a couple of conditions like:

1) If opponent repeatedly plays moves "this much" worse than the expected ponder move, and
2) Rybka score is above some bound,

then Rybka goes into high contempt mode (the reasoning being that Rybka should (usually) not run any risk by doing this). I would think that this would be effective against someone like Father, and I would think that it is possible to construct this in a way so that performence is not damaged against strong opponents.
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-08-05 17:11
     That's an interesting idea, to have the contempt factor automatically vary based on the play of the opponent.
Parent - - By Graham Banks (*****) Date 2007-08-05 18:25
Agreed. Should work in most instances against humans, but probably risky v computers.
You might therefore need two settings - v human and v computer as some engines already have.

Regards, Graham.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-08-06 18:41
This is an interesting idea.

In these games, though, contempt isn't quite the problem. Rybka is allowing much better positions to get locked up.

Vas
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-08-06 22:52
Somebody mentioned in the other thread about having knight value set below pawn in such cases has worked against him before, but I have just thought of a major problem with this: one typical strategy in these sorts of games is to exchange sacrifice a rook for a knight so that the other side can't use knights to infiltrate the enemy position and thus keep the board locked up until a clock expires.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-08-05 13:40
Hi Pablo,

welcome to our forum. 211 moves in 3 minutes is not bad, that's faster than 1 sec per move. :)

Vas
Parent - By Father (**) Date 2007-08-05 13:54
Hello Vasik,
I am really happy in  "Rybka Chess Community Forum". I hope to give my little contribution, of anticomputers games.
Thank you very much again to you, for your great job of "Rybka".
With best respect,
Pablo
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 16:57
Very observant, Vas.  And so what does this mean?  He has a computer program, that's what.  And some software that creates locked positions and knows how to kill time. 
Parent - By Hetman (*****) Date 2007-08-05 17:23
Hi,
If it is the software which can hold Rybka and other engines it must be the good one ! :-).   It could be the bestseller on the games market and the guarantie of 50% result in the freestyle.

I think that if i would be able to create such the position vs Topalov, Kasparov, Carlsen I will have to be GM.
Many GM players would like to draw with them but...
Regards
Hetman
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 17:26
I highly doubt it--these sorts of games have been known for awhile (and what sort of software do you propose that creates locked positions?), and in play against humans, Rybka can be tuned to avoid them, such as has apparently been done in the Ehlvest matches.  It's very easy to keep moving the king or some other piece back and forth so that the recorded time is less than one second, which depending on the GUI settings, may show up as zero seconds.  Also, in the game he won on the chess server, this would have been caught; furthermore, his rating on that server is fairly consistent with someone who plays this way all the time, but who only has it work perhaps one time out of 20 or one time out of 50 or something.  The statement that he simply plays like this against chess engines and occasionally gets a draw or win like that seems far more consistent with the facts and logic than that he's using a computer program.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 17:46
Well, how do you explain that Pablo never loses on time?  How about this one, 290 moves in 180 seconds?  How does a human respond to 290 moves in less than 62/100ths of a second (less, because he didn't burn up his time completely)?  Can you make 290 moves at that speed?  I can't, and personally, I wouldn't even try.  Just try picturing it.  It would be six minutes of frantic hell.

[Event "3m + 0s, rated"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2006.12.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Father"]
[Black "Goldstein, Rybka 2.2n2 mp"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "2257"]
[BlackElo "2829"]
[PlyCount "580"]
[EventDate "2006.12.15"]
[EventType "blitz"]

1. d4 d5 2. e3 Nf6 3. c3 Bf5 4. Bd3 Bxd3 5. Qxd3 Nbd7 6. f4 e6 7. Nf3 c5 8. O-O
Bd6 9. Re1 O-O 10. g3 Ne4 11. Nbd2 Ndf6 12. Qe2 Rc8 13. Nxe4 Nxe4 14. Nd2 Nf6
15. Qd3 Qc7 16. Re2 Rfd8 17. a3 h6 18. Kg2 Be7 19. Kg1 b6 20. Kg2 Rd7 21. Kg1
Bd6 22. Kg2 Qb7 23. Kg1 Qc6 24. Kg2 Rcd8 25. Kg1 a5 26. Kg2 a4 27. Kg1 Rc8 28.
Kg2 Ra7 29. Kg1 Rac7 30. Kg2 Rd7 31. Kg1 Rcd8 32. Kg2 Re8 33. Kg1 Rc7 34. Kg2
Rec8 35. Kg1 Ra7 36. Kg2 Ra5 37. Kg1 Qb7 38. Kg2 Raa8 39. Kg1 Qc6 40. Kg2 Rd8
41. Kg1 Rac8 42. Kg2 Rb8 43. Kg1 Rdc8 44. Kg2 Rc7 45. Kg1 Ra8 46. Kg2 Re8 47.
Kg1 Rb8 48. Kg2 Ra8 49. Kg1 Rd8 50. Kg2 Ra7 51. Kg1 Qc8 52. Kg2 Qb7 53. Kg1 Rc8
54. Kg2 Ra5 55. Kg1 Qc6 56. Kg2 Raa8 57. Kg1 Qb7 58. Kg2 Rd8 59. Kg1 Be7 60.
Kg2 Ra5 61. Kg1 Rc8 62. Kg2 Qc6 63. Kg1 Ra7 64. Kg2 b5 65. Nf3 Ne4 66. Bd2 Bf6
67. Be1 Rb7 68. Kg1 Rd7 69. Kg2 h5 70. h4 Rb7 71. Kg1 g6 72. Kg2 Re7 73. Kg1
Rd8 74. Kg2 Kg7 75. Kg1 Rc8 76. Kg2 Ra7 77. Kg1 Qb6 78. Kg2 Rac7 79. Kg1 Re8
80. Kg2 Rb8 81. Kh1 Rd7 82. Kg2 Rc8 83. Kh1 Rcd8 84. Kg2 Rc7 85. Kh1 Kg8 86.
Kg2 Re7 87. Kh1 Red7 88. Kg2 Kg7 89. Kh1 Rc7 90. Kg2 Rh8 91. Kh1 Rd7 92. Kg2
Qc6 93. Kh1 Rc8 94. Kg1 Re8 95. Kg2 Kg8 96. Kg1 Ra8 97. Kg2 Re7 98. Kg1 Rc7 99.
Kg2 Rd7 100. Kg1 Re8 101. Kg2 Rb8 102. Kg1 Kg7 103. Kg2 Rdb7 104. Kg1 Rd8 105.
Kg2 c4 106. Qc2 Be7 107. Kg1 Rc8 108. Rg2 Bf6 109. Qe2 Rd8 110. Rc1 Rb6 111.
Rc2 Ra6 112. Kh1 Ra7 113. Kg1 Rdd7 114. Kh1 Ra8 115. Kg1 Rf8 116. Kh1 Re7 117.
Kg1 Ree8 118. Kh1 Ra8 119. Kg1 Be7 120. Kh1 Qb6 121. Kg1 Qb7 122. Kh1 Bf6 123.
Kh2 Ra7 124. Kh1 Qc6 125. Kh2 Qb6 126. Kh1 Rc8 127. Kh2 Rd7 128. Kh1 Re8 129.
Kh2 Rde7 130. Kh1 Rd8 131. Kh2 Qc6 132. Kh1 Rc7 133. Kh2 Rb8 134. Kh1 Rd7 135.
Kh2 Ra7 136. Kh1 Re8 137. Kh2 Rb7 138. Kh1 Rd7 139. Kh2 Ra7 140. Kh1 Rc8 141.
Kh2 Re7 142. Kh1 Ree8 143. Kh2 Qb6 144. Kh1 Rc7 145. Kh2 Rd7 146. Kh1 Kg8 147.
Kh2 Rc8 148. Kh1 Kh7 149. Kh2 Ra7 150. Kh1 Be7 151. Kh2 Kg7 152. Kh1 Rd8 153.
Kh2 Rc7 154. Kh1 f5 155. Kh2 Bf6 156. Kh1 Rdc8 157. Kh2 Rd7 158. Kh1 Kh7 159.
Kh2 Ra8 160. Kh1 Kg8 161. Kh2 Re8 162. Kh1 Rf7 163. Kh2 Rb8 164. Kh1 Rd8 165.
Kh2 Qa6 166. Kh1 Qc6 167. Kh2 Kg7 168. Kh1 Rfd7 169. Kh2 Qc7 170. Kh1 Rf8 171.
Kh2 Qb6 172. Kh1 Rc8 173. Kh2 Ra7 174. Kh1 Kg8 175. Kh2 Rf8 176. Kh1 Rc7 177.
Kh2 Ra8 178. Kh1 Qc6 179. Kh2 Kg7 180. Kh1 Re8 181. Kh2 Qd7 182. Kh1 Ra7 183.
Kh2 Qc6 184. Kh1 Rf8 185. Kh2 Kg8 186. Kh1 Rd7 187. Kh2 Qa6 188. Kh1 Qa5 189.
Kh2 Kg7 190. Kh1 Qb6 191. Kh2 Re8 192. Kh1 Qc6 193. Kh2 Kg8 194. Kh1 Qb6 195.
Kh2 Rc7 196. Kh1 Qc6 197. Kh2 Rd8 198. Kh1 Rb7 199. Kh2 Re8 200. Kh1 Rbe7 201.
Kh2 Qd6 202. Rf2 Nxf2 203. Qxf2 Ra7 204. Qd2 Rc8 205. Bf2 Rb7 206. Kh1 Re8 207.
Kg1 Kh7 208. Kg2 Rc7 209. Kg1 Kg8 210. Kg2 Qc6 211. Kg1 Ra7 212. Kg2 Rc8 213.
Kg1 Qb6 214. Kg2 Qa6 215. Kg1 Rd7 216. Kg2 Qd6 217. Kg1 Rdc7 218. Kg2 Re8 219.
Be1 Rf7 220. Kg1 Kg7 221. Kg2 Rb7 222. Kg1 Qb6 223. Kg2 Qa5 224. Kg1 Rd7 225.
Kg2 Qa6 226. Kg1 Kg8 227. Kg2 Qa5 228. Kg1 Red8 229. Kg2 Qb6 230. Kg1 Rc8 231.
Kg2 Qd6 232. Kg1 Kh7 233. Kg2 Qa6 234. Kg1 Kg7 235. Kg2 Qd6 236. Kg1 Ra8 237.
Kg2 Kg8 238. Kg1 Rad8 239. Qd1 Rc7 240. Qc1 Ra7 241. Rh2 Rda8 242. Kg2 Rb8 243.
Qc2 Rc8 244. Qc1 Rb7 245. Qc2 Re8 246. Kg1 Rf8 247. Qc1 Rff7 248. Qc2 Rb8 249.
Qc1 Rc8 250. Qc2 Rd8 251. Ne5 Bxe5 252. dxe5 Qb6 253. Qd2 Qa5 254. Kg2 Kg7 255.
Kg1 Rc8 256. Kg2 Qa8 257. Kg1 Kg8 258. Kf1 Rd7 259. Kg1 Kg7 260. Kf1 Qc6 261.
Qd4 Qc5 262. Kg1 Rb7 263. Bd2 Qb6 264. Rg2 Rd8 265. Kh2 Qxd4 266. exd4 Ra8 267.
Kg1 Kf8 268. Kh2 Kg7 269. Kh1 Kf7 270. Kh2 Ke7 271. Kh1 Rbb8 272. Kh2 Ra7 273.
Kh1 Kd7 274. Kh2 Rbb7 275. Kh1 Kc6 276. Kh2 Ra8 277. Kh1 Re8 278. Kh2 Rc7 279.
Kh1 Rh8 280. Kh2 Rcc8 281. Kh1 Ra8 282. Kh2 Rh7 283. Kh1 Kd7 284. Kh2 Rg7 285.
Kh1 Rc8 286. Kh2 Kc6 287. Kh1 Ra7 288. Kh2 Ra6 289. Kh1 Kd7 290. Kh2 Ke7
1-0

I think you're missing the idea here.  Pablo is successful less than 5% of the time, but that <5% he trumpets as proof that anti-computer strategies work, and he is the world's greatest proponent of such strategy.  Well, he does deserve credit, as these games are no doubt successful in their own way.  But I wish he were more honest about how the whole thing was achieved.  What he's doing in this game above is not human.  It has to be mechanical.
Parent - - By Alkelele (****) Date 2007-08-05 17:51
He could be "pre-moving". You can make your move in advance, then the think time is 0 seconds (or 0.1 seconds). Then you can make your move almost in advance, with the piece hovering above the square, just waiting for you to let go of the mouse-button. Then you can watch the opponent's move before you "confirm" your move (or you can make another move if the opponent makes a surprising move). The best/fastest bullet players can react to the opponent's move and confirm their own move at 0.3 seconds all right.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 18:02
Damn, you beat me to the punch again! :-)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 18:01
Nelson,

You have an interesting theory. It wouldn't be that difficult to program a macro with a two move sequence (in the example this would be Kh1 then Kh2 then Kh1 etc.) to respond to any opponent move. As far as the openings go, I 've seen papers (I think from Pablo) describing the algorithm for generating closed positions. If the algorithm covers all cases, it should be possible to convert it to SW. That said, I suspect that Pablo is really moving the pieces and is a master at using premove (which is certainly easier when you don't care what your opponent plays). You and I might not be physically able to do this, but it might be possible for some people.

Regards,
Alan
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 21:31
All right, I suppose you guys are the experts and there is merit to what you are saying.  At least I'd rather hear it from you guys than from Pablo, who always accuses me of jealousy and calumny!  Thanks for talking me off the ledge.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 22:57
Actually, I suspect you would probably admire him if he handled success a little (well, maybe a lot) better...
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 20:01
I have made many 5-move sequences in my life in which the total time is 0 seconds.  I was going to mention premoving, but others have already done so--but there is something in addition to premoving that allows this to extend itself even longer, and is what has allowed me to do such things many times--and that is lag.  Lag, which may be a second on many occasions, allows you to check other things to make sure that the opponent doesn't have possibilities to break open the position.  It could be either him or his opponent who has the lag.  Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that he's not using a computer to do these moves--not only is such a thing easy to detect on Playchess, but it would make no sense for him to do it because once he sets up one of these positional blockades, it is extremely easy to execute three or four or more moves in less than a second because of lag and premove.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-08-05 19:27
He does not use a computer.  I've watched him play lots and lots of games on Playchess and he loses 95% or more of them.  And I've seen him play longer time controls too and a few times he chatted in between moves on his thought process.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 20:25
Now, that is interesting!
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-08-05 20:20 Edited 2007-08-05 20:26
I am not sure I see any merit in that kind of approach to chess play. Gets a little monotonous watching White's Queen go from e2 to f3-its like rocking the game to sleep. The alluding  to Capablanca is a bit of a stretch.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-08-05 22:48
Actually, he uses 'antichess' agaisnt humans with some success. 
Parent - By FWCC (***) Date 2007-08-06 23:17
Something may be fishy in the way Father achieves these results.He has to be moving at an incredible pace to do this.Outside help? Who knows.Father you certainly have a gift against these monsters.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Hello To Rybka Community. "Father"

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