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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Opening Books and GUI
- - By Dori Mjeshtri Date 2007-07-26 18:50
Hi Vas,

My name is Dorian and I'm almost totally new to electronic chess, but I'm getting into it faster every day.  they say self made books are the best; in fact high ELO rating yahoo chess players testify they use self made opening books.  Could you pls tell me how to make my own books?

I have gotten a Rybka 2.3.2a a friend gave me, and it seems Vas that Arena doesn't display some of its toolbar options (e.g.: extras, etc) - and I got the feeling (of course based on some other ops) that Rybka in Fritz performs better.  I'd like to have opinions on this issue too.

by the way, so far unbeaten, 24 wins on 24 games on yahoo chess - but i gotta see its behaviour when I reach 2100+ and play against 2600+ players, who in my opinion use the same version in Fritz (that's just a guess though, for I can tell opening similarities) only books in my guess make the difference.

What was the FIDE reply to Your challenge, if any so far?

God Bless
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2007-07-26 19:03
Maybe buying the engine will encourage people to actually respond to your questions...
Also I think it's not allowed to play with an engine on Yahoo chess.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2007-07-27 01:57
It's not allowed, but I'll wager 90% of us on this board have done it.  It's a super-unregulated environment, that.  Good place to learn the black arts.
Parent - - By VP (*) Date 2007-07-27 03:32
You would loose the wager.
Try conducting a poll,
regards,
Parent - By davidwhite (***) Date 2007-07-27 04:01
Nelson might "loose" the dogs of war,but he probably wouldn't lose the wager;and he definitely wouldn't lose the wager if,instead of a poll, a polygraph were used.
Parent - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-28 14:59
I think 90% or so of Yahoo users are using an engine of sorts, and people are screaming less and less about it.  I bought my first chess programs for just $5-$10.  Many that you think you would play to score an "easy" win based on ranking can fool you.  Many higher ranked players start over with a new ID, and are called "PRO" which starts you out at 1200 rating, and then they win 20 straight games.....

Your rating gets whacked pretty hard on Yahoo if you lose or draw to a much lower ranked player, but you get maybe one point if you win....not worth the risk, IMO.

Also, some look like they have a high ranking but with a large number of "losses"...  people can do that by starting a game with you and then forfeiting on the first move, which registers for them as a "loss", but Yahoo does not adjust your rating on such a short game....that was done to me a lot.

Then there are some who have a ranking of 3500, I don't know how they do that, it seems there are ways to get into the Yahoo system and do some tricks.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-08-02 03:43 Edited 2007-08-02 03:52
Hi Nelson,

I have never given anyone a copy of software that I bought nor have I ever requested from someone a copy of software that they paid for-or, unless it was freeware. I think you will find that most people who buy something are not so willing to give away free copies just because they can.

Robert

P.S. But, I have to qualify the above by adding that I will say that at least 96% the thought has cross their mind-where may be 4% would actually bend to the occasion and do to the dirty deed.
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-07-28 08:07
The book is a GUI issue. Each GUI has a different method for making the book.

Re. FIDE - there are discussions, nothing conclusive.

Vas
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-28 14:44
I find that programs are more and more in use on Yahoo, with almost any player.  There are all sorts of tricks I have seen for folks to try to hide the fact they use a program...many try to scam higher ranked players with a low ranking and then whip out a good engine program either at first or after a few moves.

I would say a few months ago there would be lots of complaints about people using programs but that is really fading away, I think people accept it more now.

But it is a good environment to try out your program and operating skills.  You can still lose on a stupid technical error, or disconnect, etc.

Yes, you may encounter problems playing typical blitz games, say 10 min or less.  And I feel you need to put like a 9 or 10 sec increment just to keep up with Yahoo lag times and other factors.  I reached a stone wall in my rating trying to break 2000 with Chessmaster 9000, when I was getting beat regularly.  Then I tried a Fritz 7 program that I was able to crack 2100, before maxxing out.  The Rybka engines have enabled me to get over 2200, but now I am running more into just computer capabilities with my 32 bit single processor with 1 Meg RAM (laptop).  I find I am often outmatched with faster computers that can get several more levels of depth within a short time frame.  I have rerun some lost games afterward with "infinite analysis" and saw the depth I would have needed to reach to make a difference, but it would have taken 4 or 5 minutes.

Those folks that hit 2400 or 2600, there is a good reason for that, I think, a combination of a good computer and also just good chess sense to eyeball a better alternative even when the chess engine has determined the move it thinks best.  No substitute for good chess sense.
Parent - - By Dori Mjeshtri Date 2007-07-28 18:47
Thank you Vas for Your reply, thank you guys for your opinions,

hebroots, if you consult http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELO_rating, that will answer a great deal of your dilemmas.

In response to the guy from Netherlands (I'm sorry I don't recall your nick), I gotta tell you it wasn't my intention to discourage Rybka sales, but you gotta know I was introduced to Rybka for the Ist time by the same friend of mine who gave me the engine, and by the way you should keep in mind two things:
a)   playing chess is NOT what I do for a living (this is the less important you should know), and more important
b)   If there are ways to get the engine (which there are) other than by paying for it, it's a matter of consumer behaviour, which requires more than opinion sensibilism I believe (this goes more for Vas than anybody else here reading me), which might be regulatory market politics for example (but let's not stick to the issue, for it gets more complicated in the details, especially with globalization and market expansions, and it's not in our hands to solve).

What I would ask you all again is "where can I find instructions as to how to create/make opening books?" - informatically speaking; an instructive link or more than one would answer it.

God Bless
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-29 01:02
Dori, not sure what you want me to understand about ELO system or something else.  I know the article gives a plug to Rybka, but I still am getting beaten a lot, I assume it is by better PCs.  I am losing in opening, middle game, endgame....always something else with more gusto to run the program.
Parent - - By Dori Mjeshtri Date 2007-08-01 09:47
Hebroots, it sounds strange you're getting beaten "continually" if you have gotten the latest version of rybka.  when I was using 2.3.2, i started downfalling in a very shocking way, and that was mainly because my opponents were using the 2.3.2a version + good opening books (reason why i started writing in this forum).  I run the engine on a single processor too, but so far I'm unbeaten.  I'm in Skopje - Macedonia now in vacation, and seem to be having trouble accessing yahoo chess (something about the cache, which I can't fix.  I have stopped at 1800+ ELO rating, something like 35 wins on 35 games, but can't tell you more than that experience, since my adventure on yahoo has been frozen by this cache version.

the link I gave ya talks about ELO rating calculation and system in general, so by reading it, you can see how you lose much many points against a weaker opponents, and issues related to that.

as to the hardware concept, which I barely mantioned above, I'm not the right guy to ask, for I'm not very familiar with these kinds of computer concepts.

hope I was useful
Parent - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-08-01 17:11
It is difficult to discuss opponents regarding Yahoo in regards to ELO rating...as most anyone with a chess angine is basically all equal.  It is a common scam on Yahoo for many players with 1400 -1600 or so using Rybka engine or others, and you think you have an easy win and they blast you.  They can gimmick their scores in other ways, also, like many false "losses" to make it look like they don't use an engine, etc.

I progressed up to Rybka, with my score improving.  I maxxed out Chessmaster at around 1900, Fritz 7 at about 2000, and with Rybka I can hit 2100 to 2200 range...but the folks with "rankings" of 2300 to 2600, definitely have something that I don't have.  I figure it is a faster computer or electronic chess board to minimize mouse clicking, etc.  I have been through the opening book, that is a sure tip off they are using the same setup as you (engine/book) when the opening extends 20+ moves...before I had rarely got past 10 moves.

The Chess assistant has an engione called Ruffian, that works pretty well, I might say, that will load into Fritz interface.  I like it because there are absolutely no settings except hash size (lol).
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-08-01 17:26
and on your 35 wins, could you tell if they were "enginized" opponents or not...no doubt that few "humans" in that ELO range would have a snowball's chance.

I can tell you that it is a shocker to see the game progress bars steadily climbing up against you on almost every move while using 2.3.2a...man, it happens...don't know why...or, it has been posted here on the forum that Rybka's obviously won games can get reduced to a draw rather suddenly....that is also unnerving, since sometimes Yahoo counts draws almost as harshly as a loss.  There are some players in that yahoo advanced room that pack some kinda power.

As far as your cache problem, that usually happens when they do something to upgrade  the chess server.  Just try a start-from-scratch approach..relog in to Yahoo and even on the games server...delete any Yahoo cookies pertaining to chess, etc.  They also need a Flash 9 plugin that you must have, maybe have to reload that....

if you ever want to play sometime, send your ID, I usually prowl the advanced rooms (which is full of newbies preying on orange and red rating players (lol))
Parent - - By Dori Mjeshtri Date 2007-08-07 10:34
Hebroots, my e-mail is dorian_dh_kusha@yahoo.com.  write to me - let's chat by mail, shall we?

Wayne, are you nobody? I think I know ya

F.Kling, i don't need to buy Rybka 2.3.2a - already got it - No need banning me, I'm OUTTA HERE
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-08-07 11:56
You already bought Rybka? Or are you using an illegal copy?
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-08-07 14:02
If you choose to keep the program, you should buy it--it's not so much about the money, but about having respect for Vas and the other people working on the program.  I can see your point about potentially "trying it out"--but if you're being logically consistent, and keeping the program, then you need to pay the money for it as a sign of respect for everyone working on the program.  Luckily, we have rating lists in computer chess, so you know ahead of time whether or not you want the program, so "trying it out" isn't so much of an issue.
Parent - By Linus (***) Date 2007-08-01 12:59

>b)   If there are ways to get the engine (which there are) other
>than by paying for it, it's a matter of consumer behaviour, which
>requires more than opinion sensibilism I believe (this goes more
>for Vas than anybody else here reading me), which might be
>regulatory market politics for example (but let's not stick to
>the issue, for it gets more complicated in the details, especially
>with globalization and market expansions, and it's not in our
>hands to solve).


Wow, that is the most elaborate excuse for software piracy I ever heard!

It is, what it is. If you "get" software from your friend and use it, this is software piracy. Someone - in this case Vas - wrote that software. He is living from selling software. Every piece of his software that people copy for someone else, costs him money. It is stealing.

The only exception would be if Vas decides to publish a shareware version of Rybka, which may be used for some time for test purposes. To my knowledge there is no shareware/demo/test version of the latest Rybka versions, so please if you want to use this software, go and buy it.

If you chose not to buy it and use your pirate copy instead, then plase stay away from this forum and quit pestering Vas with questions about Rybka.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-08-01 14:00
Hi!

Please get a legal copy of Rybka, else I would have to ban you from this forum. There are many guys working on Rybka, including me ( look at http://www.rybkachess.com/index.php?auswahl=Rybka+team - and there are much more guys not mentioned there) and I think you also know that what you are doing is not ok now, just read what Linus said... of course playing chess is not what you do for living, I'm also not a professional chess player. If you buy a computer game you don't have to be a professional gamer etc. .
Also Rybka is not that expensive, the tournament in Mainz where I'll be playing in 2 weeks costs me twice as much as Rybka for single processor!
Parent - By Wayne Lowrance (***) Date 2007-08-03 15:24
Yea Ban him
Wayne
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Opening Books and GUI

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