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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Recommended settings for Rybka 2.3 engine setup?
- - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-20 01:15
These items are not in "Help".  For some reason the help file talks about a shredder engine settings and not the Rybka settings.

Under Engines/Engines Setup/Rybka/Edit....what is the "Ready Timeout" used for?  What is the preferred "Opening Book?"  (I have Guru, Mainbook, and BestPlayers)

Under Engines/Setup Engines/Personalities...what does "Compensate for Lost Time" checkbox do?  Also, what are some good settings and explanations on "Outlook", "Rate of Play", and "Time Buffer"?

any suggestions will be welcome....

Also, I notice that Rybka 2.3 seems to run much slower than my Fritz program.  If I watch the "Kn/sec" rate seems like Fritz runs at least 10 times faster.  Any comments on that?

Thanks very much..
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-07-20 03:14
There are many reasons for this.  First, Rybka has a different way of "counting" kn/s than Fritz--Fritz literally "counts beans", while Rybka's count is generally more accurate for what it's actually evaluating.  I am not stating this part correctly, and I'm sure that there will soon be other replies that are a bit better.  Second, and probably more importantly, Rybka has a huge amount of knowledge associated with it--whenever it reaches a position in its search, it is using a large mount of programmed knowledge to make the decision of what is the position's evaluation.  Fritz, with nowhere near as much knowledge (you can see this in the relative file sizes--a few hundred kilobytes for Fritz compared with about 4 megabytes for Rybka) will have a far greater chance of evaluating the positions it searches incorrectly than does Rybka.  Thus, even if you could compare their kn/s, you would find that the "extra speed" for Fritz is usually wasted on incorrect evaluations.  However, one advantage is that Fritz is far better at the types of tactics normally found in chess games, especially human chess games.  Of course, in one-on-one competition, Rybka doesn't typically let Fritz get into those sorts of positions and thus throttles it with scores of 80% or so.  You will notice that Junior is even faster than Fritz, and Goliath Light 1.5 is faster than all of them and is 2-3 times as fast as Fritz 10, but a far worse program in competition.

Thus, in summary, you have (1) you can't equate the kn/s between the two programs, as they have different methods of counting positions, and (2) Rybka has far more knowledge, and so you would expect its kn/s count to be a bit slower.
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-20 13:50
Ok, great, not familiar with all those programs...but I can see what you mean about lots of wasted stuff in FRitz...I have seen nice substantial gains in a game literally evaporate in front of my eyes over something Fritz did not "see" or consider important, no matter what settings I gave to the engine.

Regardless of the kn/sec, I do see Rybka running through the depth levels quite quickly, that's what matters to me...also using Rybka engine in Fritz yields some very healthy "Fritzmark" scores, if that has any credence.

Thanks again, I enjoy the discourse here.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-07-21 01:02
Don't give too much credence to depth levels, either--those can be quite misleading in terms of playing level.  Junior searches to a deeper depth than Rybka, but is nowhere near as strong.  Hiarcs 11.1 searches to perhaps two-thirds of the depth of Junior 10, but Hiarcs 11.1 is noticeably stronger.  There is currently an article on Chessbase about how Checkers was recently solved, and they noted that in earlier versions of the program/computer, a search depth of 19 gave better results than one of 21 to 23.  I am guessing that the reason for this is that the extra code and increased pruning going from depth 19 to 21 or 23 by itself gave almost no increase in playing level, and so it was better to spend that code or speed to give the program more knowledge and not to prune as much.  Of course, things are far different in chess due to the greatly increased game complexity--10^20 possible positions in checkers compared with 10^40 or more in chess.  My guess is that one will be better off going for increased search depth (with a given program) up until around a depth of close to 40.
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-21 01:25
Thanx, turbo, but actually beyond the initial basics I am not having problems with the software as a standalone or running it through my Fritz interface.

I am having one HUGE major problem with just trying to establish an e-mail link between Rybka and myself.  Numerous messages from me have not produced any replies in any venue.  All I have is this board, and it was suggested that I try ICQ.

I am supposed to have the Rybka Library file to install in my Fritz, but it is not on the DVD and attempts to contact chessok.com for the download link have been futile.  I am not a big techie in all this, I can see where people are doing some heavy duty testing and get into all the product testing and comparisons and programming, etc.  Right now I am just trying to break through the Cone of Silence around Rybka I am experiencing.

Thanks again, though, sounds like you have a good grasp on this stuff.  If I ever get to where I can ask more intelligent questions I will be sure to try to post you.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-07-21 01:28
In this case, you should probably search through previous posts on similar topics and post a reply, particularly to something that Vas has said, as he'll then get notification and the topic will be brought to the top of the forum for others to answer as well.  He or someone else will probably be able to direct you to the best place to send e-mail; I know nothing about this, as I have only been using the UCI download versions that I get via e-mail and I haven't had any problems.
Parent - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-21 01:42
Vas told me to write to info@chessok.com but that has not worked.  I don't get any e-mail error messages in sending, just no replies.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-07-20 09:23
You can ignore "Compensate for lost Time" - it's for cases where your GUI is robbing Rybka of so much time that she will lose games on time. "Rate of Play" and "Time Buffer" are also time control mechanisms which are not too important.

"Outlook" is quite a major setting. It controls Rybka's search - optimistic means more time is spent on side-to-move ideas, pessimistic means more time is spent on opponent-to-move ideas.

Vas
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-20 13:45
Thank you very much....and on this item, any preference for the Opening Book?

Under Engines/Engines Setup/Rybka/Edit....what is the "Ready Timeout" used for?  What is the preferred "Opening Book?"  (I have Guru, Mainbook, and BestPlayers

I appreciate it.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-07-22 07:39
Hi,

these are GUI features, I am not really familiar with them.

Re. book, there are many. Currently our official book is in .ctg format, aside from that I can't really take sides in the book wars which are taken very seriously in computer chess.

Vas
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-22 13:01
Hi Vas,

Now you REALLY have me confused.  I would think that if you design and sell a software product you should be able to explain everything that is in your product, especially if there is no info in the help files.  I do not understand what you mean about GUI features, did you put them in the software, or did someone else?  It is the Rybka engine I am asking about (not Crafty or any other).

Also, there are some additional checkboxes and places to make choices in the Rybka Engine Set Up "Personalities" screen.  For example, there is a choice in there for "UCI-Elo" that varies from 1200 to 2400; is that "active"?  Is my Rybka engine running at reduced capacity?  I don't understand since the default value is 1200.

I really can't tell if I am infringing on competitive "trade secrets", I am just trying to figure what what all the options in your software mean.  Am I just supposed to resort to endless experiments to see if these settings do anything?
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-07-22 13:06
Vas is the programmer of Rybka (the engine), not of Chess Assistant!
The GUI that comes with "Rybka & Chess openings 2007" is a version of Chess Assistant, that is developed by Convekta.
Ignore the "UCI_ELO" parameter, only if "UCI_limit strength" is active, this parameter does sth. . Your engine is playing at full strength.
Parent - - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-22 13:23
OK, that helps much...but I did not realize there is some relationship or distinction between Chess Assistant and Rybka Engine...in the future how can I figure out which is which if I have questions? 

Which is the Chess Assistant part of the software? 

Is there are difference between e-mailing "info@chessOK.com" or "support@chessassistant.com"?  Right now I do not get an answer from either address. 

When I registered my product, who did I register with, Convekta?

I have to plow through these questions the hard way since there does not seem to be any explanation of this in the manuals and this is my first time using Rybka or Convekta product.

Is this forum for just the Rybka engine or the whole Convecta Chess Assistant product also?
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2007-07-22 13:37
This forum is mainly for the Rybka engine but also for the GUIs you can use Rybka with. "Info@chessok.com" and "support@chessassistant.com" are email addresses for convekta. And if you register, you register with convekta.

Since Convekta is the publisher for Rybka, producing the CDs and doing the support, this forum is also a bit for Convekta, the category "Rybka GUI" is made for the new Rybka GUI that is developed by Convekta, so if Rybka 3 is ready, this forum will also offer more support for the GUI that comes with Rybka. At the moment contacting Convekta via email is the way to go. I don't know why this isn't working for you... maybe you have chosen "delete spam emails" or something like this in your email options!? Convekta's emails are sometimes classified as spam :( ...

Btw., a description for the Rybka parameters can be found here: http://www.rybkachess.com/index.php?auswahl=Parameters+FAQ
Parent - By hebroots (**) Date 2007-07-23 04:08
none of my spam get's deleted immediately, it either ends up in spam folder or into filtered trash basket for at least a week...all of which I watch also

thanks for the link, I will look it over....

and if you have any of the download links I need, Convekta folks are always welcome to send it to my yahoo address I gave you...anyway you told me in another post to give it until Tuesday or so.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Recommended settings for Rybka 2.3 engine setup?

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