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- - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 13:16 Edited 2010-06-05 14:12
The Leak Facts:

-I got emails and messages from the "Harry Schnapp" account in our forum and by "h.schnapp-frankfurt (at...) t-online.de", asking for Rybka 4 engine files already some weeks before the Rybka 4 release. The author of those messages said he needed them to optimize his books for Rybka 4 and signed the messages with "Harry Schnapp".

-On Tuesday, May 25 01:49 PM CET, one day before the official Rybka 4 release, I sent the final Rybka 4 engine files to h.schnapp-frankfurt (at...) t-online.de, but I left out the chess960 version.

-On Tuesday May 25 02:26 PM CET I got a reply from that email account saying "Thanks for trusting me, it's an honor for me" in German ("Euer Vertrauen ist für mich eine Ehre!").

-On Tuesday, May 25 07:53 PM CET a leaked Rybka 4 package was put online, including the Rybka 4 multiprocessor versions, but the chess960 version missing.

-There was a readme in that leaked package stating:
"These versions of course are the strongest of Rybka 4 series but there are more versions left including chess 960 versions.
I have it but I don't feel like releasing it."

The only one who did have the normal Rybka 4 versions at that time, but not the chess960 version, is the receiver of my email with the Rybka 4 files or anyone who received Rybka 4 from that source.

-On Wednesday, May 26 06:18 PM CET, after the official release of Rybka 4, the chess960 version was put online on the page with the leaked version.

-The person who wrote "but there are more versions left including chess 960 versions" obviously didn't know that there aren't any other missing versions than the chess960 version. But any Beta tester knew it - the only one having Rybka 4 and not knowing that was again the receiver of my email or anyone who received Rybka 4 from that source.

-The circle of Beta testers was small, besides Rybka team members and 3 people of ChessOK/Chessbase's staff only 12 people had access to the beta versions.

-There was quite a large number of beta versions - over 70 different versions - but no single one was leaked.

The "10 Accounts" Facts:

-There are 10 Accounts created with t-online email addresses in our forum, all of them created with IP addresses from Frankfurt and using similar patterns in messages, including missing spaces after commata and dots after exclamation marks.

-The accounts are (with IPs and creation date):

Harry Schnapp      79.253.***.***        2007-07-12 19:30
Theodor            87.155.***.***        2007-11-06 13:30
Florin             91.36.***.***         2007-11-07 17:51
Stefan S.          87.147.***.***        2007-12-27 14:13
Lucian             91.36.***.***         2008-05-25 16:22
Iunie              91.36.***.***         2008-05-24 14:56
Dr.Pungu           91.36.***.***         2008-05-30 16:05
Octacore           91.36.***.***         2008-05-30 18:18
F.Fulga            91.36.***.***         2008-05-31 20:30
Iuval              91.36.***.***         2008-12-23 15:36
All IPs are from Frankfurt a.M. in Germany

-Those last 9 accounts were used to harass Sedat Canbaz ( http://sedatchess.110mb.com/ ) with offensive posts, which caused Sedat to give up book making and computer chess altogether for some time.

-Those accounts also praised Harry Schnapp's books.

-The account "Harry Schnapp" sent a private message to me, saying bad things about Sedat Canbaz.

-The account "Stefan S." contacted me and asked me to send him the Rybka 4 engines for creating opening books for Rybka 4, the message was ending with "Regards, Harry" and stating the email address I later sent the Rybka 4 files to. A following message by the account "Harry Schnapp" followed by the message from "Stefan S.", answering my message I sent to "Stefan S.", so it seems one and the same guy had access to both accounts.

-"Harry Schnapp" states in emails and fora that his sons and grandsons have created all those accounts used for writing offensive messages and praising Harry Schnapp books on their laptops and it was not him. That doesn't make sense when taking the patterns and messages from the "Harry Schnapp" nick into account.

----------------------------------------------------------
Those are the facts - you can draw the conclusions.
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) Date 2010-06-05 13:25
Good to know but I thought this was over.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 13:29
Well, the plan was to formulate it better, make it more precise and clear.

Of course I still think that you should know about those things that happened.
Parent - By RFK (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 14:07

> Well, the plan was to formulate it better, make it more precise and clear.


I think the events were clear..the failed allegiance and reasoning behind these events not so clear; the questions of which  no one here can give answer to.
Parent - - By Eckeneckepen (*) Date 2010-06-05 15:15
Hi Felix,

i would suggest that you visit Harry Schnapp at his home and look at his computer and talk to him. Harry Schnapp should agree that.

After that, you can make new conclusions.

Otherwise - if you just say "excuse me" without more investigations, a sneaking suspicion will stay.
Parent - - By Mark (****) Date 2010-06-05 16:57
Do you really think he'd leave the evidence on his computer??  Then again, maybe he deleted emails but left them on the recycle bin.  :)
Parent - - By Eckeneckepen (*) Date 2010-06-05 18:57 Edited 2010-06-05 19:28
It doesen't matter. Harry schnapp can not delete everything , he would forget some important things if he is really guilty.

We all know that felix kling is a smart and friendly person. A good boy! He is that, and we all know that. He is very helpful and he is a really honest guy.

In my opinion there is only one reliable way to friendly finalize this situation: Felix must visit harry schnapp.

If harry is innocent he would invite him, and allow him to deeply take a look on his pc.

Of course, harry could say "no felix, i dont want to see you" ...... intead of this he could go to court .... this would escalate everything, and i think this is not the wisest solution.

When both , harry and felix, do nothing - the situation stays unsatisfactory for everybody. The problem is that: Here in our computerchess community there are some ... let me say really really bad ... persons.
This "really bad" persons are writing here and in CSS and in CCC. This persons are poison for the computerchess-community and they will stay on putting salt and acid into the unsatisfactory situation...
Parent - - By Mark (****) Date 2010-06-05 19:59
I agree that nothing will get solved by discussing on this forum.  In addition, I can't see Felix and Harry sitting down to have a nice chat...
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2010-06-06 00:01
i dont really wish to get involved,however it was i who asked HS to post new books which he did within mins of asking,i had the greatest respect for HS but to me Felix evidence is overwhelliming.all this crap about grandchildren is rubbish.i feal very sorry for Harry he had nothing left to prove on his bookmaking abilities.i myself use his books for testing as well as CCRL.the whole situation has become very sad .
Parent - By Mark (****) Date 2010-06-06 00:35
Yes, I agree...
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-06-06 09:49 Edited 2010-06-06 10:05
Hello Chess Friends,

The Mystery is already solved !

Harry's Mail:                                                                                                                                                 


Ok,finally ''Harry Schnapp" apologized me and probably i will forgive him !
And now i don't plan to make any complaint against him in the Law Court.

Here is a little saying for ''Harry Schnapp":
When you realize you've made a mistake, make amends immediately.It's easier to eat crow while it's still warm.
~Dan Heist

One thing more,that would be injustice if ''Harry Schnapp" will not apologize to a few Book Authors too(Rybka3,Compmaster 1b,Sheebar,MyBook)

And last (i have a few words for Harry):
-In the end,our friendship will not be as before,but at least i will not see you ''as a enemy'' !

Kind Regards,
Sedat Canbaz
Parent - - By Christopher Conkie (**) Date 2010-06-05 13:35 Edited 2010-06-05 14:25

>The account "Stefan S." contacted me and asked me to send him the Rybka 4 engines for creating opening books for Rybka 4, the message was ending with "Regards, Harry" and stating the email >address I later sent the Rybka 4 files to.


You sent the files even after you knew this? Someone pinch me please.

Anyway, the account thing we know about here since a day or so because of something different.

It is the kind of thing Harry would and did do in his own bumbling way. It was not grandchildren or even the family pet. That needs an unreserved apology both to you and his grandchildren.

The F. Fulga account was a very interesting choice by Eduard Nemeth as an example to discuss. You can check this in your moderation forum.

The main thing you need to do now is to find out who put them up there. Harry's association with the **** place is not good.

There is a whole bunch of people from there in here. It is not difficult to work out who is on what side of that fence.

Contact the blog host.

In future you should privately personalise each test version so they can be tracked.

Good luck, I'm off to watch Bullet Train win the Derby.

Chris
Parent - By Mark (****) Date 2010-06-05 15:05

> In future you should privately personalise each test version so they can be tracked.


Absolutely!
Parent - - By rlsuth Date 2010-06-05 17:28

> Good luck, I'm off to watch Bullet Train win the Derby.


How much money did you lose on "Bullet Train"? :)
Parent - By Christopher Conkie (**) Date 2010-06-05 17:38
£5 e/w, so a tenner but i got it back on Fanny May later on.

Bullet Train went lame.

:)

Chris
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2010-06-05 14:36
Would be interesting if we could get the blog users ip, and perhaps the yahoo e-mail login ips. Wouldn't be surprised if it is one of the ips listed.

Still I don't think the evidence would hold up that Harry himself is directly responsible. It would have to be proven that he himself was "at the controls" when this happened.

I don't know how the law works in Germany (BPOL?), but if they subpoena'd the machines like directly now there might be retrievable traces of deleted/written files and a time of upload could be proven. Then we would know the exact machine, and probably where the machine was when the uploading took place. Then it's just a matter of finding the persons that 'were there' at the time. I think that if this were to occur now it would be superfluous enough to establish the culprit beyond a reasonable doubt.

Probably nothing will happen though, and this will all be forgotten in a month : /

I probably shouldn't be saying any of this, because it's likely that harry is listening. Rybka forum cannot suspend all new accounts being made, and there's always a way to get an ip address.
Parent - - By udokaiser (**) Date 2010-06-05 16:44
the law in germany allows harry to start a law suit against Felix Kling, and as the company behind this website, rybkachess.com
to immediately delete the insulting allgeations against Harry on the website here.
if the insulting texts against harry are not deleted, harrys lawyer could shut down the forum.

Felix Kling is german, isn't he ? he would see himself in a law suit against harry at german court.

A law suit neither Felix nor Rybkachess.com could win. So as a result they would have to pay Harry the damage of reputation
due to the public posting of insulting accusations. I guess this would be at least 50.000 Euro.

Since Vas Rahlich explicitely allowed Felix to continue the allegations, he would be in the duty to pay too.

I could imagine that customers of Rybka4 give the engine back and demand their money back because they
do not accept this kind of "behaviour" on the rybkachess website.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 16:49
There are just facts here. No allegations. Nothing wrong with that.

German law doesn't allow you to fight against reality :)
Parent - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2010-06-05 17:24
German law does allow you to fight against reality (or anything else) - the problem is: you'll loose
Parent - - By udokaiser (**) Date 2010-06-05 17:29
Felix , we don't have to speculate about this.
In the moment the police enters your appartment and takes away your computer you can
tell your "philosophy about german law" to the german police who takes away your computer.

And i am sure in this moment your "boss" at rybkachess will also find out what is possible
and what is illusion.
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) Date 2010-06-05 17:32
You can stop your scare tactics now. It's obvious you are a good friend of Harrys.
Parent - - By AWRIST (****) Date 2010-06-05 17:44
Yeah, and on CSS they know Udo is also someone called Thorsten. :)
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) Date 2010-06-05 17:51
Seems fair since Harry is also known as Stefan. :-P
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2010-06-06 02:47
There is a term for people like yourself who like to harass on the Internet and cannot accept facts.
Parent - - By Guenther RWBC (**) Date 2010-06-06 12:50
I observed you already as a plague of the CSS forum and I guess a lot of people
left there because of your psychic paranoid tirades.
Parent - - By udokaiser (**) Date 2010-06-06 15:49
"Es kann der Beste nicht in Frieden leben, wenn es dem bösen Nachbarn nicht gefällt."

Erich Honecker
Parent - - By Christopher Conkie (**) Date 2010-06-06 15:57
“good fences make good neighbours”

Robert Frost
Parent - - By udokaiser (**) Date 2010-06-06 20:19
34 Denkt nicht, ich sei gekommen, um Frieden auf die Erde zu bringen. Ich bin nicht gekommen, um Frieden zu bringen, sondern das Schwert.
35 Denn ich bin gekommen, um den Sohn mit seinem Vater zu entzweien und die Tochter mit ihrer Mutter und die Schwiegertochter mit ihrer Schwiegermutter;
36 und die Hausgenossen eines Menschen werden seine Feinde sein.
Parent - By Christopher Conkie (**) Date 2010-06-06 20:45
Erich followed by Jesus. Interesting you should put the two together......however......

“Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much.”

Oscar Wilde
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2010-06-06 16:02
I'm convinced Erich Honecker wasn't the best but one of the worst persons in German history.
Parent - - By udokaiser (**) Date 2010-06-06 20:23
„Ich liebe — Ich liebe doch alle — alle Menschen — Na ich liebe doch — Ich setzte mich doch dafür ein.“

– Erich Mielke
Parent - By Guenther RWBC (**) Date 2010-06-07 06:05
toc toc?
Parent - By inactiveaccount (*) Date 2010-06-05 14:41
Hi

To be honest I am very disappointed how this case is handled. I thought "The Rybka project" is a professional thing  but I was very wrong. Of course it's quite a financial damage that the final Rybka version leaked but still I thought that the court is the right place to handle this and not self justice! And this it is! At least the accused should have the right to reply on this forum.

Don't get me wrong. I am programmer therefore I know the value of "intellectual property" and I am also against downloading movies and this kind of stuff. But how you treat Harry is unacceptable.

I bought Rybka because I wanted a strong engine but it will be the very last version.

Gerhard
Parent - By Mark (****) Date 2010-06-05 15:02
Felix- 

Thanks for providing these facts.  They are very clear and present a compelling case.  I'm sure it must have been agonizing for you when you first found out about the leak.  Hang in there!

Regards,

Mark
Parent - - By Ingo (***) Date 2010-06-05 15:04
Hi Felix,

To conclude in some other words:

You send out a set of R4 but no 960 Version to Harry Schnapp.

6 hours later a Rybka 4 was put onto a website with the statement: "...  strongest of Rybka 4 series but there are more versions left including chess 960 versions. I have it but I don't feel like releasing it."

Then you wrote: "... The only one who did have the normal Rybka 4 versions at that time, but not the chess960 version, ..." Out of this I asssume that more persons had R4 including R4 960. (Correct!?)

Additionaly: " ... The person who wrote "but there are more versions left including chess 960 versions" obviously didn't know that there aren't any other missing versions than the chess960 version." Your conclusion might be missleading as "I" read out of the "more versions" that the one might have thought about the R4 betas ... at least this assumtion is as good as yours - I think. (I - for example - did not even thought about the 960 Version until I read about it here and the set I recieved did not have the 960 verion either (you know where I got it from)) So why should have Harry Schnapp, whos interest in 960 is close to zero would have mentioned it. What you see as irksome is something I see as an indication to someone who really had the 960 Version!

12 People of the Rybka team + 3 of Chess OK + Harry Schnapp = 16 People had it in advance (What about CB? And what about the company who had to make CDs ...? It is hard to believe that just 16 persons had access to it one day in advance). I assume that some of the computer where in a company and not attended ALL the time ... (and of course I believe that one out of 16 has enough criminal energy to do such things)

-----------------

Now the account thing. Harry Schnapp admited that in the german fora gave an explanation why and excused. This happened without any doubt.

-----------------

Because of your understandable anger about the leakage and the account thing you pointed in public to Harry Schnapp, and you do it again right now. I am not you and it is your decision, but I personaly think your judgment is based on some very fast assumtions.
I personaly would take a beer, sit down, relax, enjoy the sun and think about what to do next.

Regards
Ingo
Parent - By Mark (****) Date 2010-06-05 15:14
I think Felix has showed amazing restraint, given that he was the victim of such a huge betrayal.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 15:15
I'm just giving facts, you can draw the conclusions.

About the account thing: I'm not sure if he admits it, but in any case, that account thing, harassing Sedat, alone would be enough for removing his books and so on. He can be happy that there aren't any more consequences.
Parent - - By Ingo (***) Date 2010-06-05 15:24
Hello Felix

>About the account thing: I'm not sure if he admits it, but in any case, that account thing, harassing Sedat, alone would be enough for removing his books and so on. He can be happy that there aren't any more consequences.


Actually I am not tallking about the "Account case" and I do not question the removing of the accounts. (Except that he has no possibility to defend himself here where he is accused - it is a bit sleazy)  I am talking about your prosecution in public!

But again: Your decision!

Bye
Ingo
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 15:27
I put that new post online and removed the old one to avoid any misunderstanding. The current post is just giving facts and not interpreting anything. That looks ok to me.
Parent - - By udokaiser (**) Date 2010-06-05 16:58
You claim that you "present facts".

I tell you what Harry could do. He could go to the german police and could initiate a
"Strafanzeige" against you in Person, and the company of the Website that allows YOU to
speak in their name and your kind of "presenting facts".

As a second action, he could sent a lawyer with an "Abmahnung" against you and the company you work for.
Part of the Abmahnung would be to delete your "facts" and to pay Harry for the damage of reputation your
statements have done to him.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 17:05
1) I'm not working for any company.
2) I speak in noone's name.
3) Presenting facts is nothing unusual. Journalists do the same. Everyone could do what he wants with those facts. If everything is right, facts can't destroy your reputation. :)
Parent - By DeletedAccount (**) Date 2010-06-05 17:55
I hope HS gets on with his "Strafanzeige", so we do not have to listen to that billion dollar recompensation talk all the time.
Parent - By tralala (*) Date 2010-06-05 16:24
What you should do is to draw the conclusions (not sending any more rybka versions to Harry Schnapp) but not to give the facts (that you believe he is the source of the leak).
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) Date 2010-06-05 15:26
I don't see how taking a beer would help to make sense of things.
Parent - - By Ingo (***) Date 2010-06-05 15:32
I dont see how NOT taking a beer would help making any sense out of it! :-)

Bye
INgo
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) Date 2010-06-05 15:37
Touché! ;)
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2010-06-05 15:50

>What about CB? And what about the company who had to make CDs ...? It is hard to believe that just 16 persons had access to it one day in advance


It was before they got it.
Parent - - By Ingo (***) Date 2010-06-05 15:56
Hi

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6382

This article is from the 31st May. At that day they recieved the ready made DVD ... how many days in advance do they recive a copy how many days is it at manyfacutring?

I do not know who did it, and the last thing I do is accusing CB, I only want to point out that there might be more than 16 persons AND that even 16 might be enough to have a leak.

Regards
Ingo
Parent - - By Hannibal (**) Date 2010-06-05 16:00
Felix stated in the removed thread that the number was "'around' 25".
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 16:03
That number included Rybka team members
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / The Rybka 4 Leak / "Harry Schnapp" accounts
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