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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Test Positions / Will be interesting to see how R4 handles this
- - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-08 20:51
Ran across a game that is interesting because a poisoned queen results in a deep combination that just about paralyzes R3.  Will be interesting to see if R4 can do any better with it.  Here's the game:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Nb3 Bb6 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bb4 d6 9.a4 Nxe4 10.Bxd8?? Bxf2+ 11.Ke2 Bg4+ 12.Kd3 Ne5+ 13.Kxe4 f5+ 14.Kd5 Rxd8 15.Nd4 c6+ 16.Ke6

Now notice how hard it is for R3 to get to any depth.  It took me 40 minutes to get through d16 on an older 8-core!
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-08 21:53
This is the search slowdown after reaching 5.09/5.12. If someone wants to test with Rybka 4 (beta?), the correct moves are:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Bc5 5. Nb3 Bb6 6. Nc3 Nf6 7. Bg5 h6 8.
Bh4
d6 9. a4 Nxe4 10. Bxd8?? Bxf2+ 11. Ke2 Bg4+ 12. Kd3 Ne5+ 13. Kxe4 f5+ 14. Kd5
Rxd8 15. Nd4 c6+ 16. Ke6
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-08 23:54
I need a new pair of glasses.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-05-08 23:55
But when you clone Rybka, many of these problems go away...

New game
3rk2r/pp4p1/2ppK2p/4np2/P2N2b1/2N5/1PP2bPP/R2Q1B1R b k - 0 1


16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-8.00)   Depth: 8   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-8.00)   Depth: 8   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-7.92)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-7.84)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-7.72)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-7.54)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-7.54)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-7.27)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-6.87)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-6.87)   Depth: 10   00:00:00
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-6.27)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  22kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Ba6 bxa6 20.Rhf1 cxd5 21.Rxf8+ Rxf8 22.c3 Bb6 23.Kxd6 Nc4+ 24.Kxd5 Nxb2 25.g3 Rf2 26.a5 Rf5+ 27.Kc6 Bxa5 28.Kb7 Rf7+ 29.Kxa6 Bxc3
  -+  (-6.27)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  22kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  24kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  26kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  30kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.h3 g3 25.Rhf1 Rc7 26.Rb3 b6 27.Be6+ Kh7 28.Ke4
  -+  (-5.56)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  34kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.72)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  213kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.72)   Depth: 12   00:00:00  217kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-5.84)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  222kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-7.29)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  244kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-7.29)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  244kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-7.29)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  244kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bd3 cxd5 20.Kxd5 Bxb2 21.Raf1 Rfe8 22.Bf5 Re7 23.Rb1 Bc3 24.Rb3 Rc7
  -+  (-7.29)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  244kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Be2 Rf2 20.Bxg4 Nxg4 21.Raf1 cxd5 22.Rxf2 Bxf2 23.Rf1 Rf8 24.Rd1 Ne3 25.Rd3 Nxg2 26.Kxd6 Ne3 27.Kc7 Rf7+ 28.Kb8 b6 29.Rd4 a6 30.c3 g5
  -+  (-8.09)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  1550kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Be2 Rf2 20.Bxg4 Nxg4 21.Raf1 cxd5 22.Rxf2 Bxf2 23.Rf1 Rf8 24.Rd1 Ne3 25.Rd3 Nxg2 26.Kxd6 Ne3 27.Kc7 Rf7+ 28.Kb8 b6 29.Rd4 a6 30.c3 g5
  -+  (-8.09)   Depth: 15   00:00:00  1557kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Be2 Rf2 20.Rad1 Bxb2 21.Ke7 Rd7+ 22.Ke6 Rxe2 23.Nf4 Rxc2 24.Nd3 Rf7 25.Nxb2 Rf6+ 26.Ke7 Rxb2 27.Rxd6 Ng6+ 28.Kd7 Rxg2 29.Kc7 Rxd6 30.Kxd6 Nf4 31.Rf1 Rd2+ 32.Ke5
  -+  (-8.05)   Depth: 16   00:00:00  2368kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Be2 Rf2 20.Rad1 Bxb2 21.Ke7 Rd7+ 22.Ke6 Rxe2 23.Nf4 Rxc2 24.Nd3 Rf7 25.Nxb2 Rf6+ 26.Ke7 Rxb2 27.Rxd6 Ng6+ 28.Kd7 Rxg2 29.Kc7 Rxd6 30.Kxd6 Nf4 31.Rf1 Rd2+ 32.Ke5
  -+  (-8.05)   Depth: 16   00:00:00  2375kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Be2 Rf2 20.Bxg4 Nxg4 21.Raf1 cxd5 22.Rxf2 Bxf2 23.Rd1 Nxh2 24.Rxd5 Bc5 25.c3 Ng4 26.Rd2 Re8+ 27.Kd7 Kf7 28.Kc7 Re7+ 29.Kc8 Ne5 30.Rd1 Be3 31.Rf1+ Ke6 32.b3
  -+  (-8.13)   Depth: 17   00:00:01  7572kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.14)   Depth: 17   00:00:02  19495kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.14)   Depth: 17   00:00:02  19875kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.06)   Depth: 18   00:00:03  24336kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.22)   Depth: 18   00:00:05  40064kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.axb5 Re2 25.Nf5 Rd2+ 26.Kc5 Rc8+ 27.Kb4 Rdxc2 28.Nd6 Rxb2+ 29.Ka4 Rcc2 30.g3 Ra2+ 31.Kb3 Rxa1 32.Kxc2
  -+  (-8.34)   Depth: 18   00:00:07  55592kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.36)   Depth: 18   00:00:09  67510kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.36)   Depth: 18   00:00:09  67516kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.36)   Depth: 19   00:00:12  94211kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.36)   Depth: 19   00:00:12  95934kN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.44)   Depth: 20   00:00:20  153mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.52)   Depth: 20   00:00:26  196mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.Kd8 Rf7 30.Ra4 Rxh2 31.Rxg4 Rxc2 32.b3
  -+  (-8.64)   Depth: 20   00:00:34  254mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.c4
  -+  (-8.65)   Depth: 20   00:00:41  311mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.c4
  -+  (-8.65)   Depth: 20   00:00:42  314mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.Rg2
  -+  (-8.73)   Depth: 21   00:00:59  440mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.Rg2
  -+  (-8.65)   Depth: 21   00:01:00  455mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.Rg2
  -+  (-8.65)   Depth: 21   00:01:01  462mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.Rg2
  -+  (-8.73)   Depth: 22   00:01:16  575mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Ra1 a6 31.Ra2 Kh7 32.Rg2
  -+  (-8.81)   Depth: 22   00:01:39  750mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rxg2 27.Kd5 Re8 28.c3 Rxb2 29.Kd4 Rxb5 30.Rg1 h5 31.Rg2 Rbe5 32.Rb2
  -+  (-8.93)   Depth: 22   00:02:12  996mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.g3 bxa4 27.b3 Rxc2 28.Kd5 Rce2 29.bxa4 Rxa4 30.Kc5 b6+ 31.Kb5 Ra5+ 32.Kc6
  -+  (-9.05)   Depth: 22   00:03:01  1374mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.g3 bxa4 27.b3 Rxc2 28.Kd5 Rce2 29.bxa4 Rxa4 30.Kc5 b6+ 31.Kb5 Ra5+ 32.Kc6
  -+  (-9.05)   Depth: 22   00:03:04  1397mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Raf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.g3 bxa4 27.b3 Rxc2 28.Kd5 Rce2 29.bxa4 Rxa4 30.Kc5 b6+ 31.Kb5 Ra5+ 32.Kc6
  -+  (-9.13)   Depth: 23   00:03:59  1812mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.c4 Rxh2 30.Rg1 h5 31.b4 Rc2 32.c5
  -+  (-9.13)   Depth: 23   00:04:16  1958mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.c4 Rxh2 30.Rg1 h5 31.b4 Rc2 32.c5
  -+  (-9.13)   Depth: 23   00:04:20  1994mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.c4 Rxh2 30.Rg1 h5 31.b4 Rc2
  -+  (-9.21)   Depth: 24   00:05:48  2665mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.c4 Rxh2 30.Rg1 h5 31.b4 Rc2 32.c5
  -+  (-9.29)   Depth: 24   00:07:16  3326mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Kxd6 cxb5 24.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 25.Kd6 Re4 26.axb5 Rd2+ 27.Kc7 Re7+ 28.Kc8 Rxg2 29.c4 Rxh2 30.Rg1 h5 31.b4 Rc2 32.c5
  -+  (-9.41)   Depth: 24   00:08:59  4109mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Rf1 Rxg2 24.Bd3 Nxd3 25.cxd3 Re2+ 26.Kxd6 R8xe7 27.b4 Kg8 28.a5 Rf7 29.Rh1 Rf4 30.a6 bxa6 31.Kxc6 Rxb4 32.Kd5
  -+  (-9.50)   Depth: 24   00:11:13  5161mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2 Rxf2 23.Rf1 Rxg2 24.Bd3 Nxd3 25.cxd3 Re2+ 26.Kxd6 R8xe7 27.b4 Kg8 28.a5 Rf7 29.Rh1 Rf4 30.a6 bxa6 31.Kxc6 Rxb4 32.Kd5
  -+  (-9.50)   Depth: 24   00:11:25  5282mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2
  -+  (-9.58)   Depth: 25   00:14:55  6900mN
16...0-0 17.Nd5 Bxd4 18.Qxg4 fxg4 19.Bb5 Rde8+ 20.Ne7+ Kh8 21.Rhf1 Bf2 22.Rxf2
  -+  (-9.66)   Depth: 25   00:18:44  8678mN
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-09 05:13
The French have a very descriptive words for this.  Putain!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-09 04:40

> It took me 40 minutes to get through d16 on an older 8-core!


If depth worries you turn persistent hash on, the advancing depth on fail high bug will give you a higher depth much faster :)

Engine: Rybka 3 PersisntentHash (64 MB)
by Vasik Rajlich,Larry Kaufman
12.01   0:01   -3.15++  16...Bxd4 (277.859) 143
12.01   0:02   -3.15   16...Bxd4 143
13.01   0:03   -3.35++  16...Bxd4 (586.708) 173
13.01   0:03   -3.35   16...Bxd4 173
14.01   0:06   -3.55++  16...Bxd4 (1.201.928) 183
14.01   0:06   -3.55   16...Bxd4 183
15.01   0:14   -3.75++  16...Bxd4 (2.638.992) 187
15.01   0:14   -3.75   16...Bxd4 187
16.01   0:31   -3.95++  16...Bxd4 (5.814.460) 187
16.01   0:31   -3.95   16...Bxd4 187
17.01   1:04   -4.15++  16...Bxd4 (11.717.662) 187
17.01   1:04   -4.15   16...Bxd4 187
18.01   2:12   -4.35++  16...Bxd4 (24.802.370) 192
18.01   2:12   -4.35   16...Bxd4 192
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-09 05:16
This is what I don't get.  If it works so much better this way, why wouldn't this be the default?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-09 07:32
Because it doesn't work better, the extra depth we see is "faked", besides wrongly increasing the depth counter without going to the next depth, Rybka also doesn't update the fail high window, it's stuck at 0.20, which means it would actually take her longer to get an accurate score than with Persistent Hash Off, and if this is not the best move, the really best will not be analyzed until it's too late in the depth, so a really long time without outputting anything would eventually appear where Rybka has to update the move till it reaches "current" depth (which could be depth 40 or something ridiculous, with the 5.09/5.12 bug around it'd take months to resolve).

It's a mess, and really needs fixing, I just hope Vas throws it away and manages fail highs differently for Rybka 4.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-17 21:54
Using "Rybka 4 Beta 8"

3rk2r/pp4p1/2ppK2p/4np2/P2N2b1/2N5/1PP2bPP/R2Q1B1R b k -


[-8.45]  d=16  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Re8 11.Kd7 Ree2 12.axb5 Rf7+ 13.Kd6 Rxg2 14.Ra4 Rxc2 15.Rxg4 Rxb2 16.Ra4 b6 (0:01:08) 21194kN
[-8.12]  d=15  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Re8 11.Kd7 Ree2 12.axb5 Rf7+ 13.Kd6 Rxg2 14.Ra4 Rxc2 15.Rxg4 Rxb2 16.Ra4 b6 (0:00:37) 10760kN
[-8.06]  d=14  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Re8 11.Kd7 Ree2 12.axb5 Rf7+ 13.Kd6 Rxg2 14.Ra4 Rxc2 15.Rxg4 Rxb2 16.Ra4 b6 (0:00:25) 7275kN
[-7.44]  d=13  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Re8 11.Kd7 Ree2 12.axb5 Rf7+ 13.Kd6 Rxg2 14.Ra4 Rxc2 15.Rxg4 Rxb2 16.Ra4 b6 (0:00:15) 4172kN
[-5.95]  d=12  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.Rhf1 Bxb2 6.Rxf8+ Rxf8 7.Ra2 Re8+ 8.Kf5 g3 9.h4 Nc4 10.Kg4 Re4+ 11.Kxg3 Be5+ 12.Kf2 Rd4 13.Nc7 Rf4+ 14.Ke2 b4 15.Nb5 a5 (0:00:10) 2443kN
[-5.56]  d=11  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.Rhf1 Bxb2 6.Rxf8+ Rxf8 7.Ra2 Re8+ 8.Kf5 g3 9.h4 Nc4 10.Kg4 Re5 11.Nf4 g5 12.hxg5 (0:00:09) 2163kN
[-5.09]  d=10  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bd3 Nxd3 5.cxd3 cxd5 6.Kxd5 Bxb2 7.Raf1 Rfe8 8.d4 Re2 9.g3 Rf8 10.Rxf8+ Kxf8 11.h4 gxh3 12.Rxh3 Kf7 13.g4 Rd2 14.Rf3+ Kg6 15.Rf4 Kg5 16.Re4 (0:00:06) 1303kN
[-4.93]  d=10  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.Kd5 Nf4+ 9.Kc4 Nxg2 10.Nd5 Rf5 11.Rhd1 Ne3+ 12.Nxe3 Bxe3 (0:00:03) 771kN
[-4.78]  d=10  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.Kd5 Nf4+ 9.Kc4 Nxg2 10.Nd5 Rf5 11.Rhd1 Ne3+ 12.Nxe3 Bxe3 (0:00:02) 540kN
[-4.66]  d=9  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.Kd5 Nf4+ 9.Kc4 Nxg2 10.h3 Ne3+ 11.Kb3 Rfe8 (0:00:01) 320kN
[-4.57]  d=9  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.g3 Nxb2 9.Rhf1 Nd3 10.Rad1 Rf6+ 11.Kd5 Re8 (0:00:01) 257kN
[-4.45]  d=8  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.g3 Nxb2 9.Rhf1 Nd3 (0:00:01) 186kN
[-4.45]  d=7  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.g3 Nxb2 9.Rhf1 Nd3 (0:00:00) 145kN
[-4.32]  d=7  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 (0:00:00) 121kN
[-4.17]  d=7  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Nd3 (0:00:00) 104kN
[-4.05]  d=6  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 cxb5 5.c3 Bf2 6.axb5 Rde8+ 7.Ne7+ Kh7 8.Kxd6 Nc4+ (0:00:00) 77kN
[-3.98]  d=6  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Be2 Rde8+ 4.Kxd6 Rd8+ (0:00:00) 58kN
[-2.38]  d=6  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Be2 Rde8+ 4.Kxd6 Rd8+ (0:00:00) 34kN
[-1.58]  d=6  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Be2 Rde8+ 4.Kxd6 Rd8+ (0:00:00) 26kN
[-1.18]  d=6  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Be2 Rde8+ 4.Kxd6 Rd8+ (0:00:00) 23kN
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-17 22:18
That is definitely an improvement.  Thanks, Dadi.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-23 10:38
The most recent beta is even faster (with a certain new option enabled, which most users will want although it will probably be disabled by default). The time was reduced from 1:08 to 35 seconds on first run. I repeated the test several times (unloading the engine in between) and got (ordered by time to depth 16): 0:28, 0:28, 0:34, 0:43, 0:44, 0:45, 0:50, 1:17.

[-8.56]  d=16  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Ree2 11.g3 Rxc2 12.axb5 Rxb2 13.Ra4 Rxh2 14.Rxg4 Rxb5 15.Re4 Rd2+ 16.Kc7 Rb3 (0:00:35) 13444kN
[-8.44]  d=15  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Ree2 11.g3 Rxc2 12.axb5 Rxb2 13.Rxa7 Rxb5 14.Ra4 h5 15.Ra8+ Kh7 16.Ra3 Rxh2 (0:00:23) 9104kN
[-8.00]  d=14  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Ree2 11.axb5 Rxg2 12.Ra4 Rxh2 13.Rxg4 Rxc2 14.b3 Rh3 15.Rb4 h5 16.Ke5 Kg8 (0:00:15) 6132kN
[-7.68]  d=13  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Ba6 bxa6 5.c3 Bf2 6.Ne7+ Kh7 7.Nxc6 Nxc6 8.Kd5 Ne7+ 9.Kc4 Nf5 10.Kd3 Rde8 11.b4 Re3+ 12.Kc2 g3 13.Kd2 Rc8 14.Rac1 gxh2 (0:00:12) 4950kN
[-7.55]  d=12  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Ba6 bxa6 5.c3 Bf2 6.Ne7+ Kh7 7.Nxc6 Nxc6 8.Kd5 Ne7+ 9.Kc4 Nf5 10.Kd3 Rde8 11.b4 Re3+ 12.Kc2 g3 13.Kd2 Rc8 14.Rac1 gxh2 (0:00:12) 4950kN
[-5.06]  d=11  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bd3 Nxd3 5.cxd3 cxd5 6.Raf1 Rfe8+ 7.Kxd5 Bxb2 8.d4 Re2 9.g3 Rf8 10.Rxf8+ Kxf8 11.h4 gxh3 12.Rxh3 Ke7 13.g4 Rd2 14.Re3+ Kf6 15.Re6+ (0:00:01) 397kN
[-5.01]  d=10  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bd3 Nxd3 5.cxd3 cxd5 6.Kxd5 Bxb2 7.Raf1 Rfe8 8.d4 Re2 9.Rhg1 Rc8 10.Rf4 h5 11.h3 Rd2 12.Rb1 Rxg2 13.hxg4 hxg4 14.Kxd6 Rd8+ (0:00:00) 265kN
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-23 12:20 Edited 2010-05-23 12:22
Why would such a potentially useful improvement be disabled by default?  Too much pruning or what?  And what do you think of Alan's bit of mischief above in comparison?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-23 19:25

> Why would such a potentially useful improvement be disabled by default?


It performs worse on games, says Vas.

Two settings:

Always score main move (Rybka no longer panics and goes to look for alternative moves on fail lows, she now stays and gets a score first).

Display upperbounds (in the above cases, Rybka now tells the user something is wrong, with a score-lowerboud --, while before she would stay quiet).

With this I consider fail lows solved.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-23 19:39

> It performs worse on games, says Vas.


No, you are thinking of the wrong settings. I didn't even think of testing the settings that you mention. I should have tested them on this position, of course. Maybe I'll try one more time :)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-23 19:43
Ahhh, I see, sorry.

Well, the setting you mean should be better at all times, but is only for advanced users (unless I'm guessing wrong again?)
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-23 19:47
Right :)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-23 21:44

> Well, the setting you mean should be better at all times, but is only for advanced users


?!  Why would a less-advanced user choose something that is NOT better at all times?  What is so complicated about a setting that makes things theoretically better at all times that you need to be advanced to even think about using it?  So many questions...
Parent - By Nick (*****) [gb] Date 2010-05-23 21:46
Patience my friend, you will see soon enough ;)
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-23 22:23

> Why would a less-advanced user choose something that is NOT better at all times?


It comes at a price. What I'm interesting in seeing is if the rating lists will use this setting, that basically, makes the engine 15% faster, or about 15 elo stronger.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-05-23 23:24
Could be huge pages. Just a guess of course. I'll be the last to know for sure...
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-23 23:34
I suspect I may be the tail-end Charlie here.  You read faster than I do.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-23 22:32
I only had time for two runs playing with the parameters you mention and got 0:23 and 0:26.

[-8.35]  d=16  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Ree2 11.h3 Rxg2 12.hxg4 Rxc2 13.axb5 Rxb2 14.Rxa7 Rxb5 15.Ra4 Kh7 16.Rc4 Kg6 (0:00:23) 8090kN
[-8.35]  d=15  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Ree2 11.h3 Rxg2 12.hxg4 Rxc2 13.axb5 Rxb2 14.Rxa7 Rxb5 15.Ra4 Kh7 16.Rc4 Kg6 (0:00:16) 5716kN
[-7.76]  d=14  1...O–O 2.Nd5 Bxd4 3.Qxg4 fxg4 4.Bb5 Rde8+ 5.Ne7+ Kh8 6.Rhf1 Bf2 7.Rxf2 Rxf2 8.Kxd6 cxb5 9.Kxe5 Rxe7+ 10.Kd6 Ree2 11.h3 Rxg2 12.hxg4 Rxc2 13.b3 Rc6+ 14.Ke7 Ra6 15.Rb1 bxa4 16.bxa4 b6 (0:00:08) 2841kN
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-05-23 23:33
Well OK, that's about 100x faster than Rybka 3 in that particular position.  Unrepresentative, but not insignificant.
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-05-29 04:38

> It performs worse on games, says Vas.
>
> Two settings:
>
> Always score main move (Rybka no longer panics and goes to look for alternative moves on fail lows, she now stays and gets a score first).
>
> Display upperbounds (in the above cases, Rybka now tells the user something is wrong, with a score-lowerboud --, while before she would stay quiet).
>
> With this I consider fail lows solved.


In your opinion, should Always Score Main Move and Display Upperbounds be enabled by default if your main objective is analysis?  Should the IDeA engine have these enabled?

What exactly is the "price" of using these settings?  I'm not ashamed to admit I'm confused!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-29 04:56

> In your opinion, should Always Score Main Move and Display Upperbounds be enabled by default if your main objective is analysis?


Yes, for interactive analysis mainly.

> Should the IDeA engine have these enabled?


Display Upperbounds isn't necessary. For the other one, I don't know, the "let iteration end" parameter should take care of fail lows by itself, so Always Score Main Move may overcompensate the problem. ASMM should help the leaves of the tree, but it can hurt the branches.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-29 05:02

> What exactly is the "price" of using these settings?


Display upperbounds doesn't have a price, but if you don't know what to do with the extra information it can certainly get confusing! that's why it's off by default.

Always Score Main Move advantage is that the user knows how the mainline is scored ASAP, the price is that alternative moves that may be better will be found slower, but the user is expected to find those better moves with interaction. If you don't care how the move that lead you to this variation was scored, you can turn it off, but I'd consider it bad practice (Rybka's behavior on fail lows is poor with it off.)
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Test Positions / Will be interesting to see how R4 handles this

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