Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Opening Books / SCCT II Prize Tournament's Latest Results
- - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) [tr] Date 2010-04-01 07:53
Hello Chess Friends !

SCCT II Prize Tournament's Leader is still:Attacker 4 - Congratulations to Adriean Costinescu

For Current Standings:

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz
Parent - - By Sunny (***) [us] Date 2010-04-01 08:57
This time Attacker book will not have a run away success as he did in previous tour.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) [tr] Date 2010-04-01 09:09
The previous SCCT I Prize Tournament,Attacker 3 won with a score:61 %
It's too early to make any conclusions,but anyway currently Attacker v4.0 is playing even slightly better with a score:65 %
Parent - - By Sunny (***) [in] Date 2010-04-01 13:29
The point I am making here is the difference between 1 and 2nd place was huge last time, 146.5 for Attacker 3 to 128 for Iconoclast. This time, difference till now is very close.

Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-01 15:06
Brandon and I both agreed--before the tournament started--that Attacker would win again.
Parent - - By Sunny (***) [in] Date 2010-04-01 15:11
Nelson, I am satisfied with the results from the book. This is the first book I created after a long pause.
Parent - By BrandonSi (***) [us] Date 2010-04-01 15:16

Nelson and I were discussing your book the other day, and we were both impressed. A job well done! Keep up the good work :)
Parent - - By BrandonSi (***) [us] Date 2010-04-01 15:15
Yes, looks like we will probably be proven correct.

How does it go.. "In the land of the blind..."

For the foreseeable future, the best B90 books will win, the worst will end up at the bottom, and the rest will occupy somewhere in between.

The anti-b90 movement seems to be slowly gaining strength.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-01 16:09
Yes, there was marked improvement.  I'll wait until after the tournament to analyze the final result, but I feel we've made progress.  Najdorf games are still a totally disproportionate percentage of the games, and that to a large extent drives who will win (the best Najdorf players), but the percentage is well down from last time.

Sunny's book is, in my view, the star of the tournament because he is doing so well with 1.d4 openings.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-01 23:16
Well then, I propose the following elimination format:

Some games are played, and the worst performing book is kicked out, then some other games are played, and the worst performing book is kicked out again.

This way we'd get rid of the B90 slaves that are the main cause of Attacker winning. It's like seeing a lot of people jumping off a cliff, but other people keep following them anyway.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) [tr] Date 2010-04-01 23:57 Edited 2010-04-02 00:15
This way we'd get rid of the B90 slaves that are the main cause of Attacker winning.
Sorry...but here i dont agree with you,for me it was really interesting too see that Attacker's performance is based on B90 opening or not

Thats why i have decided to create a ratinglist (without any B90 opening game of the current tour played so far)

And as we see currently (even without B90 opening) again Attacker has the best score:

Program                             Elo    +   -   Games   Score   Av.Op.  Draws

01 Attacker 4                     : 3324   71  63    36    62.5 %   3235   63.9 %
02 Yograj 6.4                     : 3310   73  71    49    60.2 %   3239   46.9 %
03 Sick Panda                     : 3310   66  61    41    61.0 %   3232   63.4 %
04 Go Go Angel                    : 3286   90  88    27    57.4 %   3234   55.6 %
05 Jagged Ice                     : 3274   62  61    46    55.4 %   3236   63.0 %
06 Fruit 2.327                    : 3265   67  66    40    53.8 %   3239   62.5 %
07 EmreMert                       : 3247   66  65    38    51.3 %   3238   65.8 %
08 Franven 1.3                    : 3244   70  70    42    50.0 %   3244   57.1 %
09 Stimulus Package               : 3242   54  54    60    50.0 %   3242   63.3 %
10 TheGuard 4.3                   : 3239   64  64    48    50.0 %   3239   58.3 %
11 Iconoclast II                  : 3237   62  62    60    49.2 %   3243   51.7 %
12 BarmikiM 3                     : 3236   73  73    40    50.0 %   3236   55.0 %
13 Leschats 2.3                   : 3236   76  76    34    50.0 %   3236   58.8 %
14 Midtown 1.0                    : 3236   50  50    60    49.2 %   3242   68.3 %
15 Zeeman 2.6                     : 3222   62  63    38    47.4 %   3240   68.4 %
16 Refugium                       : 3214   59  60    60    45.8 %   3243   55.0 %
17 Tornado 3                      : 3214   52  53    60    45.8 %   3243   65.0 %
18 Megadeath                      : 3213   57  58    60    45.8 %   3242   58.3 %
19 CompMaster 2010 RE             : 3210   71  72    43    45.3 %   3242   53.5 %
20 Tron                           : 3197   68  71    34    44.1 %   3238   64.7 %
21 Macedonia                      : 3185   68  70    52    41.3 %   3246   48.1 %
22 1337chess v5                   : 3182   89  91    32    42.2 %   3236   46.9 %

Note:the rating list does not include any single game of B90 Sicilian Najdorf Opening

One thing more,Attacker is one of the strongest books that i have ever tested so far

And i hope we will see many books near to Attacker playing level strenght or even stronger in SCCT tournaments...

Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-02 00:37
Looks like we were simultaneously working on similar comments.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-02 00:42
Notice that 6 out of 22 players avoided B90 completely.  Sadly, not one of them got more than 50%!  It is not easy being a nonconformist!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-02 00:50
I'd like to see how the list looks like if you only include B90 games.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-02 00:35
First, a correction.  Yograj is not playing 1.d4 openings and I don't remember what made me think he was.  Strike that remark.

Out of 660 games so far, 28% are Najdorf lines.  Here are some statistical notes:

Attacker (the leader) in the Najdorf 6 wins, 6 draws, 1 loss playing white, 5 wins, 5 draws, 1 loss playing black: 11+ 11= 2- (69%).  However we mustn't minimize his other, non-Najdorf games: 6 wins, 11 draws, 1 loss with white, 5 wins, 12 draws, 1 loss with black: 11+ 23= 2- (62%).  This is a fantastic record, 22 wins against 4 losses with 34 draws.

Three players specialized in Pirc: Iconoclast, Midtown and Macedonia.  Macedonia got slaughtered with only 28% and Midtown/Iconoclast were at 45-48%, mildly disappointing for both, I'm sure.

Iconoclast and Midtown also specialized in Larsen (1.b3) openings.  (Brandon and I did not coordinate this in any way, though great minds do think alike.)  16+ 32= 11- combined, 54%.  So far Midtown has gotten 55% vs. Iconoclast's 53%.

Fruit and to a lesser extent Jagged Ice played B22 Sicilian (2.c3) and scored 73% with it, an eye-opening result. 

Refugium specialized in B24-B25 Sicilian (2.g3) openings and is 48% so far with it.  Maybe with a little more work?

French openings got badly treated, black getting 34%.  Seven different books played it, though none exclusively.

Leschats was badly outclassed with Najdorf, 2 wins, 18 draws and 13 losses with both colors, 33% success.  What is he thinking?

Sick Panda was dominant with white (13+ 15= 1- 71%) but less so with black (3+ 25= 3- 50%).  Still, 16 wins against 4 losses?  Who wouldn't take this?

1.d4 openings: 51%.  1.e4 openings: 58%.  Only two tries with 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 apiece.  Worthy candidates for the next tournament!

Book exits >= 0.50 with white: Attacker 13, Sick Panda 12, Go Go Angel 9.  Iconoclast and one other book had zero.  Most on the receiving end of these bad book exits: Megadeath 13, TheGuard 10, Jagged Ice 9.  All players experienced this at least once, though the fewest were recorded by Attacker (1).  Games where white achieved this objective were 51 wins, 50 draws and 5 defeats for white (72%).  Obviously when you have 13 excellent book exits against just one bad one you're playing well.

In general, Attacker is no fluke.  This is one of the best, if not the best, opening book that has ever played in a tournament.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-02 00:46
Thanks for the report, I apologize if I offended anyone, I was expecting much more Leschatsesque cases, but I was wrong.

A Healthy Panda that isn't happy with a draw as black would be very interesting to see.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-04-02 01:30
You guys all suck!!! I am tempted to send in a book of really trashy openings to prove my point. If I could only figure out how to get my !@#$% GUI to play the moves in my@#$%^& book...

Do you get to choose the engine and engine settings in these things?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-02 01:39
I think players should be able to decide what engine is used with the book, do I smell Zappa Mexico coming?
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-02 02:21
No, this is a BOOK tournament.  Engines and engine settings must be equalized.  But you can change the book settings as you want.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-04-02 02:43
Believe it or not, books play best on the engines they were optimized with.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-02 06:56
Most of these books are tuned for Rybka 3, seeing another engine entering the competition with a super tuned book would be interesting, and as long as all the people can choose what engine to use with the book, the ground is leveled again and I don't see any problem.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-04-02 14:04
Most of these books are tuned for Rybka 3

Yes, but is this requirement written in stone somewhere? Suppose I have a book that is optimized for an engine that is widely acknowledged to be a little worse than R3? Using a book optimized for one engine with another engine can be a disaster.
Parent - By ForrestGump (***) [hr] Date 2010-04-02 21:19

>Yes, but is this requirement written in stone somewhere?

Yes, in The Ten/15 Commandments ;-) :
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-02 23:05
I agree with you!

Suppose that Rybka 4 is released and due to the knowledge removed to make Remote Rybka more shiny Rybka 4 just sucks at the Najdorf, so that several books perform better with Rybka 3 than with Rybka 4.

Shouldn't the book authors be allowed to keep participating with Rybka 3 so all their work in this line isn't wasted instead of being forced to use Rybka 4 because it performs better than R3 with generic books?

In the same vein, (fe.) a book tuned for Zappa Mexico II should be allowed to participate with that engine (what if it's best? Doesn't that mean people should be using Zappa Mexico II to test their books and tuning to it?, using Rybka 3 currently is more arbitrary than anything).
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) [tr] Date 2010-04-02 09:24
Hello Nelson,

Many thanks your interesting comments and detailed information :)

Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) [tr] Date 2010-04-01 19:56
Yes...i agree with you and in other words that's means in the current tour we have stronger participants than the previous one

But as i mentioned before,everything can happen in the next rounds...i wish once more good luck to all Book Authors and let's win the best book !

Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) [tr] Date 2010-04-02 08:48
Hello Dear Friends !

846 of 924 games are played so far,in other words to the FINAL are left only 78 games !!!

A few comments about latest tournament:
-The previous SCCT I Champion ''Attacker '' still leads,very close to be again a Winner,but guaranteed to be at least 2nd place
-Sick Panda is currently 2nd,one of the strongest public books,which is fighting for the 1st place,just 2.5 points behind the current Leader
-Yograj 6.4 opening book is currently 3rd,one of my favorite books,normally it started very well,but unfortunately lost some points in the last rounds
-CompMaster 2010 RE is currently 4 place,very tactical book,has big chance to be 3rd and especially in the last rounds started to show its real strength
-Stimulus Package and Tron opening books are new participants in SCCT and the both books have big chances to be 3rd in the current tour
-Franven 1.3 book is a serious candidate to take 3rd place,note that it has 1 game less played than rest participants
-Go Go Angel is a very dangerous opening book,still has a big chance to be 3rd place too
-Jagged Ice is just 9MB,the smallest book,but its performance is almost equal to huge 200 MB books
-Zeeman 2.6,a successful book and currently is 13 place (the winner of Pionerchess),but here it seems the participants are much stronger
-EmreMert is 17th,not bad performance for a book without any optimization of hand or auto tuning (the book author is very new in book making)
-Iconoclast II is a strong book,personally i expected much more from it,but anyway for a higher performance i think it needs some optimizations/tuning
-Leschats 2.3 is a quality opening book,but i think its performance is fallen down due to its almost all strongest lines are blocked

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz
Parent - By Sunny (***) [in] Date 2010-04-02 16:56

> Yograj 6.4 opening book is currently 3rd,one of my favorite books

Thanks Sedat....Book authors can change lines and play another stronger variations in this book. I will share the book after tour.

Nelson, Yograj was suppose to play 1. d4 as one of the line but I forgot to remove ?? mark from the book before sending to Sedat, else results surely wold have been different.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-02 17:55
This is funny, almost like a horse-racing analysis. 

Iconoclast II: well-regarded American gelding broke well, could not get inside, pulled up lame in the backstretch, hobbled in well back of the pack.
Attacker 4: Romanian favorite showed early speed, cruised wire to wire, displayed a strong finishing kick ending several lengths ahead.
Parent - - By BrandonSi (***) [us] Date 2010-04-02 18:08
I think we saw a few broken legs, hopefully those books won't get put out to pasture.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2010-04-02 19:37

>broken legs.....put out to pasture

More like they get euthanized right on the race track. If a race horse completely breaks its leg it probably is going to die long before it get's put out to pasture. Horse racing is fun but I always have to set aside about a hundred bucks every spring-summer to cover gambling losses.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2010-04-03 01:02 Edited 2010-04-03 01:05

>This is funny, almost like a horse-racing analysis. 

Even better then that you can read your commentary while listening to this - I know this has got to be your kind of music, you probably grew up listening to this guy on the radio.

Now, the race is on and here comes "Pride" up the backstretch
"Heartaches" are a-going to the inside
"My tears" are holding back
They're tryin' not to fall
"My heart" is out of the runnin'
"True love" is scratched for another stake
The race is on and it looks like "heartaches"
And the winner loses all!
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2010-04-03 03:56
- - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2010-04-03 07:58
are any of these top books available for public domain -free or not-?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-04-03 08:12
Yeah, for instance, Sick Panda (2nd) is available here:
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Opening Books / SCCT II Prize Tournament's Latest Results

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill