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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / About the possible Rybka vs Deep junior match
- - By kaustubh (**) Date 2007-06-29 05:44
If there is a match between rybka vs deep junior . The deep junior team have lot of money they may use best multiprocessors about 500 to 1000 . They can feed junior with thousands of rybka games. They can design a special openings where rybka is weak. They can do many things.
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2007-06-29 05:48
You are assuming that Rybka team will remain static.  I assure you that the chances that Jeroen will be caught in an opening trap is very small, and more likely it is the Junior team that has to be wary.  Once Rybka is out of an opening in an even or even slightly worse position ... Junior will have to demonstrate an ability to outplay Rybka.  Something no other engine has been able to do in a regular fashion since the Rybka 1.0 beta came out.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-06-29 14:18
One thing is for sure - this match would be unlike anything we've seen so far in computer chess. The pain of losing would be off the charts ..

Vas
Parent - - By kstevens (**) Date 2007-06-29 16:31
I'm excited about the match also - but I really don't think the loser will be that much worse off. Regardless of what happens. I believe both programs will get good coverage and be helped in this event - win or lose.

I have played Rybka 2.3 three times using my program Fritz 8 - so far my record is 2 wins agains Rybka. I don't believe it was luck why I won those two games. I believe I played into the weaknesses Rybka has. I never ever let Fritz use his opening book. I use an opening book I have been playing for years. In this way I know the positions and can help push Fritz in the right direction. In both my wins, Rybka was completely outplayed - losing a pawn with no compensation in the early middlegame. I don't want to take away the success that Rybka has shown. Rybka is much stronger than Fritz 8, but because I use my program differently, Rybka appears to have problems. My point is Rybka can be beat and of course so can Junior. It seems that this match is going to come down to preperation in my opinion. Both sides have improved their program since they met in 2006 when Junior won the championship.

Correct me if I"m wrong Vas. It seems to me that the Rybka team is mostly concerend with beating other Chess engines at this point. Unlike Fritz that also uses training lessons and numerous other training software that can be installed. I apologize if my assumptions are wrong. What are the future plans for Rybka? Does it currently have training for beginners and intermediate players? If not, are you planning on adding training plans and other ideas in later versions? This has been one of the reasons I decided not to get Rybka. I'm not interested in the strongest Chess engine; I'm interested in the Chess Engine that will help me improve. Fritz has always shown it can do just that, at least for me. Might be different for other Chess players. I think it depends on the person.
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2007-06-29 16:40
I'm excited about the match also - but I really don't think the loser will be that much worse off. Regardless of what happens. I believe both programs will get good coverage and be helped in this event - win or lose.

Rybka is marketed as the strongest chess program in the world (not only marketed, it IS the stronger program). If it would loose to Junior it would be a disaster and stop Convekta in becoming a threat to Chessbase as Chessbase will keep promoting theit programs as top in the world. Rybka simply has to win to become known to a wider public.
Parent - - By kstevens (**) Date 2007-06-29 16:52
I think I understand now. Basically Convekta has more to lose here than Junior since Chessbase is already very well known. I can't see Chessbase losing that much if they lose the match. In my opinion, being the strongest engine does not mean being the best engine. There's much more to a Chess Engine than playing Chess - or should be as I see it :-)
Parent - - By insipid (**) Date 2007-06-29 18:13 Edited 2007-06-29 18:15
"In my opinion, being the strongest engine does not mean being the best engine. There's much more to a Chess Engine than playing Chess - or should be as I see it"

What else do you want it to do, cook you breakfast?

The lessons, the GUI, all the other stuff you have mentioned is not part of the chess engine.  The engine just plays chess, and you will surely be helped most by the one that plays the strongest.
Parent - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-06-29 23:24
Yes, but Rybka will expode in popularity if Convetka gives us a kick ass Rybka GUI.  Although separate, Rybka and its lessons, GUI and the other stuff will soon be inexorably tied together.  Put a V12 6.2 L engine in my garage and I'll kink my neck every time I walk out the door, put a Lamborghini Murciélago in my garage and I'll be in heaven. Glitter matters ... a lot.            
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2007-06-29 16:52
Yes, I think you are right: It would be a disaster for Rybka to lose the match. Junior would probably be ok with a loss as long as it wasn't a blowout.

Alan
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2007-07-01 15:59
Hi,

Rybka is a chess engine - she is responsible for suggesting moves, evaluatons, and variations. This is the responsibility of the 'Rybka team' - mostly me and Larry Kaufman.

Convekta is developing the user interface. This is a bigger effort (in terms of man-hours) and yes, it's very important.

Vas
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2007-06-29 20:20
Deep Junior doesn't profit too much from using many cores / CPUs. I made tests and using 8 cores wasn´t significantly better than using 4 cores. Rybka´s multi processor performance is better, though it isn´t perfect. Zap! seems to be perfect corcerning multi processor performance - but that´s a different story. And none of the teams is really rich, so no one will develop a special computer for chess.
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2007-06-29 22:12
I wouldn't be too sure about that.  Maybe not that much money is actually needed to develop a much more powerful chess machine ... maybe it only requires a new re-think of how to utilize existing hardware.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / About the possible Rybka vs Deep junior match

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