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Poll SCCT Prize Book Tournament:YES or NO ? (Closed)
Yes,i'd like to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament 26 52%
No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament 24 48%
- - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 12:06
Hello Chess Friends !

There is a offer by Nikolay Bartenev:
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=15019;pg=2

And i wonder what is your opinion about starting a New Prize Book Tournament ?

Any opinions welcome...

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 13:03
Nikolay Bartenev's offer:
Уважаемый Sedat,то что вы честный и порядочный человек сомнений нет.И это мое мнение разделяет большинство,за исключением единиц.И поэтому, именно к вам я и обращаюсь. Возможно ли проводить вам призовые турниры дебютных книг? Пример:"Высылает книгу на тестирование автор в призовом турнире и кладет в фонд 5 долларов,набирается к назначенной дате книг 20,а это 100 долларов,1 место 57% от суммы,2 место 29% от суммы,3 место 9% от суммы и 5% комиссионные за проведение призового турнира". Цифры условные и должны редактироваться. Как вы на это смотрите,возможно ли это?Заинтересованность авторов в создании сильных книг возрастет.С уважением Н.Бартенев.
The English version
Respected Sedat that you the fair and decent person of doubts is not present. And this my opinion divides the majority, except for units. And consequently, to you I also address. Whether probably to hold to you prize-winning tournaments of debut books? An example: "the author in prize-winning tournament Sends the book on testing and puts in fund of 5 dollars, is typed to the appointed date of books 20, and these are 100 dollars, 1 place of 57 % from the sum, 2 place of 29 % from the sum, 3 place of 9 % from the sum and 5 % commission fee for carrying out of prize-winning tournament". Figures conditional also should be edited. How you look at it, whether it is possible? Interest of authors in creation of strong books will increase. Yours faithfully N.Bartenev.
Parent - By bort1964R (*) Date 2010-02-13 13:19
It was necessary to make likely preliminary record on participation in prize-winning tournament of authors of books. And so also authors here vote and those who never did books. Bartenev.
Parent - - By BrandonSi (***) Date 2010-02-13 14:35
Count me in! I think we need to decide on a price and limit for entries though. $5 for entry is OK, $20 for entry is OK to me, but I'm not sure what everyone thinks?

I think $100 to enter 20 books is too many books. There needs to be a limit on entries per person, maybe 2 or 3 books?

Граф меня, я думаю, что мы должны принять решение о цене и предел для записей, однако. $ 5 за въезд хорошо. $ 20 за въезд тоже хороша, но я не уверен, что каждый думает?

Я думаю, $ 100, чтобы войти в 20 книгах, слишком много книг. Там должно быть ограничение по записей на одного человека, может быть, 2 или 3 книг?
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 15:21
I will make my final decision to run or not a such SCCT Prize Book Tournament,only if i see the majority of the votes are ''YES''

Then we will begin to identify the conditions,rules,funds...

And in case of starting of New Prize Book Tournament,then i hope start it with these hardware conditions :
Processor:i7 920 @4.0 GHz
Main Memory:OCZ 3072 MB (1024x3) DDR3 1600 MHz
Operating System:Windows XP Professional x64   
Chess GUI:ChessProgram12
Time Control:3 Minutes Game
Tournament Type:Round -Robin (20 games per pairing)
HashTable Size:128 MB
Book Learning:ON
Permanent Brain:OFF
Tablebases:DVD Endgame Turbo 3
TB Cache:16 MB
Tournament Director:Sedat Canbaz
Note:All books will be played by Rybka 3 x64 (using 4 threads)

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By kosmodrom (***) Date 2010-02-13 15:42
I do not have the distinction, what tournament. I will participate. Only I do not know how to remit money for Sedat. I am not assured that it will turn out to remit money from Russia. Bartenev has suggested to hold prize-winning tournament, but I am not assured that it has an experience of remittance from Russia. I tried to remit earlier money through Visa for Rybkachess to buy Rybka. At me it has turned out nothing then.

No translate text for Sedat :)
Мне нет различия, какой турнир. Участвовать буду. Только я не знаю, как перевести деньги для Sedat. Я не уверен, что получится перевести деньги из России. Бартенёв предложил провести призовой турнир, но я не уверен, что у него есть опыт перевода денег из России. Я ранее пытался перевести деньги через Visa для Rybkachess, чтобы купить Rybka. У меня ничего не получилось тогда.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2010-02-13 16:00
You should check out this website: www.paypal.com

Very widely used in the West to transmit funds in multiple currencies.  Modest fees.  Very fast and reliable.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 20:58
I do not have the distinction, what tournament. I will participate.
Thats it...as always you are as Gladiator,ready for fighting  !!! Thank you for your interest Yuriy

As far as i know,many Russian people have no problems with transfering money to Turkey,later we will see...

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By jeandis (***) Date 2010-02-13 16:43
from Venezuela it is impossible to get dollares due to the money control. Now our money is devalueted from 2.15 to 4.30.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 21:09
from Venezuela it is impossible to get dollares due to the money control.
I have no idea about tranfering money from Venezuela

But if its not possible,dont worry,its ok...as i mentioned before,the previous SCCT 2010 tournament will be continued too,i mean the authors can register free as before...

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 21:00
Thank you very much for your interest Brandon !
I will be very happy to see your as a participant in the new prize tournament

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 20:43
Paypal is the one of best services,its quickly and securely place for transfering money

There is also a Western Union,but i think Paypal is easier and more quickly

Before to send any money by PayPal,you need to create a PayPal account,then you have possibility to send money from almost all countries

What are the fees for PayPal accounts?

1)Opening an account:
There's no charge to open a PayPal account and to transfer money from your bank account to your PayPal account.

2)There is a fee to send money as a personal payment using a debit card or credit card.
The fee in the U.S. is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you send. For example, if you send $100.00 USD by credit card,
the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30). For personal payments, the sender can pay the fee or pass it on to the recipient.

3)Receiving money – Personal payments:
It's free to receive money from friends or family in the U.S. when they send the money from the PayPal
website using their PayPal balance or their bank account. If you receive a personal payment made from a debit card or credit card,
the sender has the option to pay the fee or pass it on to you. If the fee is passed to you, it is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you receive.
For example, if you are sent $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30).


Fore more details please see:
https://www.paypal.com/tr/cgi-bin/helpweb?cmd=_help

Regards,
Sedat
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 01:38
I have just notticed in ''Help Center - Fees- What are the fees for PayPal accounts? ''

Note: Unfortunately, we’ve had to stop allowing personal payments to be sent to and from India. If you’re sending money for a personal payment to India, we ask that you find another way to pay until we’re able to restore personal payments to this area.

So,as far as i understand,the people from India have no any chances to send/receive any money using PayPal ?!

If its true that will be really sad news...

Regards,
Sedat
Parent - - By troy (*) Date 2010-02-14 07:26
any other option for payment plz tell me sedat
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 11:04 Edited 2010-02-14 11:06
any other option for payment plz tell me sedat
Please have a look at these sites too:
http://www.westernunion.com
http://www.overseasmoneytransfersite.com/
http://www.moneygram.com/
https://www.ikobo.com/
http://www.cmtmoney.com/

Note:a few times i have transferred money by western union and by paypal,but i dont have no any idea with the rest ones

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By troy (*) Date 2010-02-14 12:11
I india with western union we can only recieve cash we dont allow to send money.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 20:50 Edited 2010-02-13 20:53
Wow...:) currently the votes are almost same as in chess game statitstics (wins,losses,draws)

Yes:55%
NO :45%


White Perf. : 55%
Black Perf. : 45%


Best,
Sedat
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 00:04
Just a little note in case of running SCCT Prize Tournament:
-Due to Neutrality/Independence,Perfect 16 book will not participate !

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 00:22
Note also that before to make the final decision,i will ask a few Book Authors's opinions too (which dont visit Rybka Forum or very rarely visit)
In other words...for a such interesting prize book tournament is needed at least 6-8 participants,lets see,the time will show up....

Regards,
Sedat
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 13:07 Edited 2010-02-15 13:12
The poll is already closed,so the majority of votes are for:
Yes,i'd like to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament

Note also that the majority of the authors (which i have contacted them by via e-email)  are not against SCCT Prize Book Tournament

So,the next steps will be discussions about rules,conditions,funds...

Many thanks for all who voted,
Sedat Canbaz
Parent - - By Marcos Alexandre (**) Date 2010-02-15 21:22
Hi, for all to see here so this one votoçao Sedat about the tournament, I think most of it for you to participate must pay a symbolic value and also compete for prizes all this really cool book encourages maker to improve its books being more competitive just have to send it to the problematic and receive money from abroad hope it all works great hug friends.

Mark Alexander
Parent - - By Marcos Alexandre (**) Date 2010-02-16 15:23
I was concerned in relation to the receipt of that money because the IRS of my parents thought that was interesting.

Many people have relatives abroad who need to send money to Brazil and do not know how. If you need to receive money from another country, the safest forms and legal within the law, are as follows:

• Werstern Union (WU): The Bank of Brazil has an agreement with the WU in several countries. The deposited money via WU comes to BB and can be transferred to the account required, can be of any Bank. When you receive the money first, you must attend an agency of the Bank of Brazil to sign an authorization of their receipts.
• Swift: Another way, a little more expensive than the WU, is the transfer between banks via Swift. All the big banks abroad, including IRAs, perform this type of service. It is much faster and easier than the WU, as the money is transferred immediately to your bank.

For more information about Western union access www.westernunion.com.br.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-16 23:35
Hello Marcos,

Thanks for the info...but anyway based on my own experience PayPal is one of best and cheapest service for transfering money between different countries
Normally Western Union is good too,but the WU's commision is much more than Paypal

For example today i have contacted the Turkish Ziraat Bank to ask regarding the WU's bank commissions... and the answer was :15 usd for each transfering from 1 usd up to 100 usd,thats means any SCCT Prize's Participant should pay 25 usd,where with paypal is just 10.61 usd (including paypal's commission)

Here is the PayPal Fee Calculator:
http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-22 07:19 Edited 2010-02-22 07:25
Wow...,so far i see that the prize tournament has much more interest than the free one

Note:strange indeed,as we know normally 48% of the voters were:No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament,but the site statistics do not show this...

Anyway,currently still the number of the prize registered users are not enough,i hope to see at least 10 participants

SCCT Prize Book:135 visitors per day:


SCCT Book -Free :47 visitors per day:


Best,
Sedat
- - By josias mauricio (**) Date 2010-02-13 22:08
I will try to send here in Brazil.
if most people will write the account number.
I voted for yes, it is a symbolic amount and increases the improvement of the books and help the energy expended by Sedat .. not to mention the time spent.
Regards
Josias
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 23:57
and help the energy expended by Sedat
Thanks a lot for your understanding Josias ...
- - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-02-13 23:39
Voted: No. Reason: I find it likely that the best book won't have enough money to enter and will be left out, of course that is a good reason for the other book makers to vote yes, so the results don't surprise me.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-13 23:52 Edited 2010-02-13 23:55
I find it likely that the best book won't have enough money to enter and will be left out
Who is the author of the best book that won't have enough money to register ? maybe we can find any sponsor for the best book author :) ?!

Btw,we are talking about 5 usd or 10 usd...

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By josias mauricio (**) Date 2010-02-14 00:52
5 or $ 10 will not make anyone richer or poorer.
I think it fair that you have help for energy at least.
one will be milinoario with that money.
and what better book? V.Rajlich / M.Wagner? and he would not have 5 or $ 10??
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-02-14 01:21
I'm talking about potentiality, I just hope that if you go with a prize tournament, that you also hold a free one. If the participation of the free one is higher then that'd indicate people that couldn't afford to join the prize tourney, and I'd not be surprised if a different book that didn't join the prize tourney won the free one, so the latter would be the main event for me.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 01:48
I'm talking about potentiality,...
Oh,yes,now i understand you...but as you see many book authors want to add a little bit excitement and i think they have right for running a such different interesting tournament
Parent - - By bort1964R (*) Date 2010-02-14 06:50
Предварительная дискуссия показывает, что у авторов книг есть интерес в проведении призовых турниров. Следующим этапом я считаю надо отрегулировать финансовую сторону, возможность перечисления денежных средств из стран местонахождения авторов книг к месту турнира. Для этого надо выбрать самый удобный способ оплаты для всех. Возможно сделать пробный платеж на сумму 0.3-1.0 доллар США, что бы удостовериться,что платеж проходит. А господину Седату опубликовать расчетный счет для пробного платежа. Если я неправ, то поправьте меня. С наилучшими пожеланиями Бартенев.
The English version:
Preliminary discussion shows that authors of books have an interest in carrying out of prize-winning tournaments. I consider as a following stage it is necessary to adjust a financial side, possibility of transfer of money resources from the countries of a site of authors of books to a tournament place. For this purpose it is necessary to choose the most convenient way of payment for all. Probably to make trial payment for the sum 0.3-1.0 US dollar, what to make sure that payment passes. And to mister Sedat to publish the settlement account for trial payment. If I am wrong, correct me. With the best regards Bartenev.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 10:51
Preliminary discussion shows that authors of books have an interest ...
Yes,thats true and the most important thing is that currently the majority of the book author's votes are for ''YES''

Btw,right now i have asked many book authors by via e-mail,lets see their opinions too...one or two days more is needed and then i will close the poll

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-02-15 04:36

> currently the majority of the book author's votes are for ''YES''


Yeah, but doesn't that mean that 46% of book authors will not participate?
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 09:13 Edited 2010-02-15 09:16
Yeah, but doesn't that mean that 46% of book authors will not participate?
Its ok...i have a solution for those authors who dont like prize tournaments too

So there will be 2 kind of book tournaments:
1)SCCT Prize Book Tournament (fund registrations)
2)SCCT Free Book Tournament  (free registrations)

Note:the poll of ''SCCT Prize Book Tournament:YES or NO ?'' is a preview of how much there is a interest about it
And it seems so far there are a lot of interest of running a such prize book tournament

Of course to be sure exactly i need to active a such prize tournament,then we will see...
If the fund registrations are left than 6-8 partipants,then the prize tournament will be cancelled

As far as i see the main problem is transfering (sending) money,but later we will discuss about it too

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-02-15 12:06

> So there will be 2 kind of book tournaments:


Yes, this seems the best solution.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 12:27 Edited 2010-02-15 12:30
If the fund registrations are left than 6-8 partipants
Just a little correction (my finger mistake):
If the fund registrations are less than 6-8 partipants,then the prize tournament will be cancelled
Parent - - By mikal (**) Date 2010-02-14 13:15
If I remember correct, the early freestyle tours have $15 entry fee, for a $16000 prize for the top 10. $100 is more like a prize for at least $0.05 cents of entry fee or better yet free considering the effort and time in creating the book. I really doubt you get that many serious book authors unless of course you plan a 4-5 figure prize.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-14 15:25
If I remember correct, the early freestyle tours have $15 entry fee, for a $16000 prize
Wow...$16000 prize,i missed that one and even i missed the latest mundialchess tournament's prize too,probably i need to wait at least one year for a such tournament with $16000 prize and i have no patience to wait till next year ....,thats why i will run another prize tourmament (just joking :) )

Let's make it a little bit more clear,so far i have never was interested to participate in such above prize tournaments,(maybe i have made a mistake :)) normally its true that i have offers about participating,but i could not ...the reason i am very busy with my SedatChess's site activity

With respect to the both groups:
As we see,there are two kind of people in computerchess,one's work commercially,where others work free

I am more than 10 years in computerchess and all my work is free so far,maybe its time to be a rich with my latest prize tournament,just another joke :)

Note that (this time i dont joke):SCCT prize tournament's idea does not belongs to me,its a request by SCCT book authors
So if the authors will disagree,i will cancel it,but if they will have interest of running it then with pleajure i will organize a such prize tournament

And Last:There is no doubt that SCCT Prize tournament's goal is not to gain money,its just a fun tournament and i am quite sure when there is a prize for the winers,even this prize can be very small,but then the tournament will be much more interesting and the authors will put much more efforts on creating new ideas as well

Regards,
Sedat
- - By ErO Sennin (**) Date 2010-02-15 07:42
I vote not for one simple reason, if you analyze, the current technology that are made in which the opening books, does not provide any protection to authors, and is very easy to copy a book of openings and make little change or sometimes no change, then change the name. . . many people make a name without making any effort and without creating anything in the meantime the authors of books are breaking open the head and think of a way to always improve their books before these false competitors. An opening book should be like a chess engine: the book's author could choose to leave the code open and share their work, or leave the closed source, the safety of their own development work and methodology of creation.
This is just an idea for a new version of the chessbase GUI, incorporating a safety device, or a new format for books that open more security to the authors, and those who are in favor of "open source", which creates books in their current formats.
Even with 2 groups of farmers (the open source and closed source), we all win, because those who use open source gets a lot of help from others who also make use of it, and those who prefer the closed source, may require prior security of your work apart from the possible payoff that will receive, which is fair, if the author did a great book.
Few appreciate the importance of a good book in a game of chess, and he is responsible directly to the outcome of the match. . . I playing with a core2duo 2.0 laptop, I've won a core i7 920, thanks to that advantage that the book gave me the beginning of the game.

I'm sorry I used the google translator to translate the text.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 09:46 Edited 2010-02-15 10:02
I vote not for one simple reason, if you analyze,...
If we follow your opinion,then all rest prize tournaments should be cancelled too
Do you think that these clone move lines are exist only in SCCT tournaments,what about rest prize tournaments ?!
And do you believe too that all books's move lines are original own work ?!
All we knows that many authors are simply importing/coping the best ideas,variations...

But i'm quite sure of this,only who has own work,lines,ideas...has more chances to win any competion
At least i proved it with my Perfect 16's performance in SCCT PlayChess 2009:
http://www.sedatchess.com/playchess2009.html
or
With Perfect 15's performance in SCCT PlayChess August 2008:
http://www.sedatchess.com/playchess2008.html

And of course there are many authors who put a lot of efforts,own ideas,own work too,and here are a few standings of them:

SCCT 2010-1337chess v2:
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct2010_top10.html

SCCT VI-Don 9:
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct6.html

SCCT V-Hurricane 3a final:
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct5.html

SCCT IV tournament-My Book 13:
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct4.html

SCCT IV rating-Ultra Blitz 3 :
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct4rating.html

SCCT III-Rybka3.ctg
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct_book.html

Best Regards,
Sedat Canbaz
- - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-02-15 12:33
Since the poll is very close I'd like to clarify here that I'm changing my vote to Yes (though the poll can't show that) because I thought the prize tournament was going to replace the free one when I voted. Since both tourneys will happen concurrently there's no reason to vote no (people not liking the concept can just ignore its existence).
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 12:47
I'm changing my vote to Yes...
Thanks...,probably not only you :),i think there are many people who thought that the prize tournament was going to replace the free one...

But normally i announced that it will be 2 kind of book tournaments:
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=15019;pg=2
As a mentioned before,i will think about it...and if Nikolay Bartenev's project become true,then its will be alowed 2 different ways of Registrations:
1)Free Registrations = User can enter with his opening book and he does need to put any fund,but of course he will not have possibility to gain any Reward
2)Registrations with fund of 5 USD (or maybe with 10 USD ...) per book,so they will have the right for Reward
(For example,X Participant even can enter with 2 or 3 books,but per each book should be put funds...


Regards,
Sedat
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 13:25 Edited 2010-02-15 13:50
Btw,if we open a poll about ''Would you like to see Rybka 4 as a free engine?''
Then i quite sure that the majority of the votes will be for ''YES'' :)
As we know that almost all users love free,but unfortunately the life is not free...

Personally my opinion:Rybka 4 should be a commercial chess engine,becouse its just the strongest chess program
And i know very well about how much efforts spend Vasik Rajlich on improoving his engine

Regards,
Sedat
Parent - - By hsnksc77 (**) Date 2010-02-15 17:08
No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament
Parent - - By hsnksc77 (**) Date 2010-02-15 17:09
No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament
Parent - - By hsnksc77 (**) Date 2010-02-15 17:09
No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (*****) Date 2010-02-15 17:21
No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament
Its ok,dont worry :),the previous book tournament with free registrations is still active,so you can register your book
http://www.sedatchess.com/scct2010.html

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2010-02-17 01:47 Edited 2010-02-17 01:59
Oh, this is çok fena!  You stopping the balloting when it is so close is highly prejudicial to the outcome.  What about the uncounted absentee ballots?  We in the 'no' camp suspect voting irregularities and a systematic pattern of voter disfranchisement.  The 'no' voters demand a recount!  Our rights are being abridged and trampled upon!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2010-02-17 02:02
Recount:

Yes,i'd like to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament   27   54%  
No,i don't want to see SCCT Prize Book Tournament   23   46%
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / SCCT Prize Book Tournament:YES or NO ?
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