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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / FIDE is interested in Rybka vs Junior match!
- - By Leto (***) Date 2007-06-28 03:04
Apparently FIDE is very interested in setting up a Rybka vs Junior match for the world computer champion title:
http://www.fide.com/news.asp?id=1392
Parent - - By Gaмßito (****) Date 2007-06-28 03:42
Yes, it's great that FIDE's president be interested in the match. Certainly that is a very positive step.

They will probably agree on taking this match to the high advertising spheres, but now, what about Chessbase? It still continues hidden without saying a single word at respect. Of course, for them, it doesn't have sense to accept if they do not have or seen possibilities to have a good result. They could even get the best hardware in the world and to prepare some traps in the openings, and this way to fight somehow, but possibly and even in this way, they cannot see good possibilities to win against Rybka. Of course, Rybka's superiority is very evident.

Regards,
Gambito.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2007-06-28 05:14
The Junior team rejected the idea of loser pay all but in case that there is a sponsor for the match they did not say that they object the idea.

Uri
Parent - - By Gaмßito (****) Date 2007-06-28 08:56
That Junior had won the match against Fritz, is in my opinion the best thing that it has been able to happen. Because in case that Fritz would have won the match against Junior, I have serious doubts to see a match against Fritz. 
     
Vas is being a bit lucky. Fide seems to be interested in the match, and now if Junior team is not totally opposed, then the possibilities to make the event are even high. The possibilities go growing more and more.  
 
How do you know that Junior team rejected it, in case of the loser pay all? There are some information about this in the internet or do you talked with the programmers?  
 
Regards, 
Gambito.  
 
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2007-06-28 10:06
I know that the Junior team rejected loser pay all based on the following link:

http://globalchess.eu/main.php?id=65

quote:

Q: What is your reaction to the letter from the creator of Rybka, who is challenging the winner of this match?

Shai Bushinsky: This open letter was distributed a day before we went to Elista. It is difficult to understand the timing and the content of the letter. Junior and Rybka participated in the World Championship in Turin, and the results are well known. I cannot recall a precedent from the history of chess, in which one top player gambled with another one in a winner-takes-all match. If there was a serious sponsor, then we could consider playing such match. However, no sponsor is mentioned in the letter. Also, the letter is addressed to Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, who has many excellent qualities but has never written a chess engine, as far as I know. It is very strange that the letter is addressed to him.

Uri
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-28 10:24
Well, if he his so convinced of his engine as he wants us to believe, then why doesn't he simply join the fun?
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-06-28 11:50
It's really quite amazing how people like Bushinsky like to hide behind the luck of a Swiss tournament with a very buggy version of the best engine, and especially how they speak as if that is the end all, be all of the argument.
Parent - By Gaмßito (****) Date 2007-06-28 14:53
Thank you for the link Uri.

Then, it seems that the only thing that lack here, it is a serious sponsor? I cannot believe it. :-)
Vas already almost has the match in the pocket. How difficult it could be to find a sponsor?

Regards,
Gambito.
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-28 09:07
LOL, I'd reject that, too, being the Junior team. :->
Parent - - By Chandan (*) Date 2007-06-28 11:30
At least it seems that Fritz  concedes Rybka's superiority. The following is the quote from Alexader Kure of Fritz

"Rybka is not a reigning World Champion, and Junior is. There was a similar situation when Bobby Fischer considered himself a champion, but did not want to play in a qualification. Maybe Rybka is the strongest program in the world, however it has to win the championship to prove it."

I wonder on what basis did Fritz qualified for this contest.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2007-06-28 11:48
Fritz qualified on the basis of beating kramnik in a match earlier.

Uri
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-06-28 12:03
Yes, of course that's quite arbitrary, which I'm sure you don't deny.  There are 12 other completely different engines that would have beaten Kramnik under fair conditions.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2007-06-28 12:08
The claim that 12 completely different engines could also beat kramnik is only an opinion.
I do not claim that it is not correct but we have no proof for it.

Uri
Parent - By Chandan (*) Date 2007-06-28 13:50
Hi,

How does beating Kramanik become a quiliifier. That is very arbitrary. It would have been fair only if other strong programs had also played Kramanik and only Fritz had beaten him or beaten him with the largest margin.
If such arbitrary measures were to decide the challenge then Rybka has defeated Elvest with pawn handicap. It has equal right. Many other programs have defeated many strong GMs. They all have equal right as well.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2007-06-28 14:45
There is no "proof", but I think we have good evidence; I also recognize that you're not saying that the claim isn't correct.  In the past, engines have tended to have as good or better performance ratings in actual tournaments, as their SSDF ratings would have suggested.  The CCRL is roughly at the scale of the SSDF and has had a chance to do far more testing.  I simply checked the number of engines rated around 2800 or more; I think it would be reasonable to say that all of these engines would, on an overclocked CoreDuo processor computer (I would guess that the equivalence between CCRL and FIDE rating list on such a processor would need to add at least 50 elo to equate to FIDE list, based on previous history--and I'm not even talking about multi-core machines), defeat Kramnik in a 12-game match assuming that he isn't allowed to see the exact opening book that will be played during the match, that he isn't allowed to see what moves they will make in the opening during the game and what moves he should make, that the opening book is sufficiently limited to be fair and roughly equal to a normal super GM opening repertoire, which would probably be about 15 moves deep (though even that would be too easy--Kramnik could, for example, have a little something prepared in our favorite line of the Poisoned Pawn Sicilian, for example.

Anyway, these engines that I believe should be able to beat Kramnik in a 12-game match on a single overclocked CoreDuo processor are, aside from Rybka and Junior,
Hiarcs 11.1 (2905)
Zap!Chess Zanzibar (2905)
Strelka 1.0 (2893)
Loop 13.6 (2890)
Fritz 10 (2877)
Shredder 10 (2871)
Toga II 1.2.1a (2861)
Spike 1.2 Turin (2851)
Naum 2.1 (2846)
Fruit 2.2.1 (2840)
Deep Sjeng 2.5 (2835)
Glaurung 2 (2833)
Ktulu 8 (2802)

We have 13 here.  There are also "maybes" on about 5 more different engines.
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