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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Alternative format for Engine Output
- - By StAhlig (**) [de] Date 2007-06-26 10:20
All GUIs - well, at least all GUIs that I am aware of - display engine output in very much the same way.
I.e. the GUI simply displays the n best variations line by line in some kind of analysis window.

I think that our new Rybka GUI could substantially improve on this
and come up with something new & unique.

How about this:

A new mode for the display of engine output is implemented, this
would be an alternative (not a replacement) to the currently existing analysis window.

For that new mode the GUI would have to constantly analyze the engine output to identfy certain 'patterns'.
None of these patterns can be found all the time in any game but I would think that some can be found in
most games. Patterns could e.g. be:

a) for several/most of whites moves black will answer with the same move
b) the next three moves of white will (e.g.) be Rd1, c3, Sf5 but the sequence doesn't really matter much
c) there are several ways to reach the same position in (e.g.) 5 moves from the current position
   ( How to detect: There are several plausible lines which lead to the same postion.)
d) a certain sequence of moves builds on each other, because the 1st move is only a preparation of the 2nd etc.
   ( How to detect: Is the 1st move still good if that specific 2nd move would not be played? )
e) the reason for a move is very specific, e.g. to counter a very specifc threat
   ( How to detect: Would that still be the best move if the specific threat would not be there? )

... I am sure there are many possibilites ('patters') that would also be interesting.

In all of these cases I feel that there would be better ways to display engine output
than just a list or the first n variations.

Obviously I do not know the details, but none of these patterns should be particularly
difficult to detect if the GUIs works with the engine output.

If these patterns are identified the GUI chooses a suitable visualization or description
that is not just the list of variations. E.g. for pattern a) from above a human annotator
would often write something like: 'for standard moves like e.g. c3,Te1,Sg6 black will
answer Td4'. I am not necessarily suggesting natural language comments here,
that is just an example - certainly several graphical options could be used here as well.

As a further example, for pattern d) from above the output could just be (e.g.):
'c3 as preparation for Td4 and Sf5'

In addition, every forcing sequence of moves should be highlighted in some
way, e.g. c3 Sxd5 Sxd5 Txd5 Lxd5 Kh1, indicating that moves Sxd5 ... Lxd5 are
a forcing sequence of moves. This highlighting scheme would allow to see at a
glance which lines a forcing and which are more positional.

Oviously all this information can be 'unearthed' manually when you look closely at the
engine output and try this and that ... but I think here the GUI could facilitate things.

Any other ideas along these lines?
Parent - - By Victor Zakharov (*****) [ru] Date 2007-06-28 13:37
Interesting idea! But as seems to me simple processing of engine output will not give proper results. May be additional processing (like automatical browsing by possible lines) can give results. As well access to engine hash can help. I am not sure in final solution, but any discussions in this thread can help.
Parent - By StAhlig (**) [de] Date 2007-06-28 20:08

yes, I agree: simple processing of engine output (mv mode) won't do the trick. Based on engine output the GUI
would have to decide which additional lines to look at and which lines to look at more closely. Would that be a
problem? I don't think so. Of course: this mode would take some extra cpu time and thus slow down the actual
engine analysis a bit (as compared to the common mode). But since it would be an alternative and not a
replacement to normal mode one could always choose what's best.

I am convinced that the suggested features could become very useful
and I wonder what the forum community thinks about this.
Parent - By premraj_n (**) [in] Date 2007-07-21 00:28
I think these will be extra load for CPU and may require fast computers like minimum of a Quad.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Alternative format for Engine Output

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