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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / "Background Analysis"
- - By Sam Gamgee (**) [de] Date 2007-06-15 11:27
Analysis of positions, variations and whole games is probably THE most important function of a chess program. While Chessbase has not bothered to substantially improve its products in this area over the last years, Convekta has steadily improved (sometimes revolutionized, sometimes fine-tuned) the analysis functions of Chess Assistant. From a marketing standpoint, this might be the area where customers could be most easily "converted" from Chessbase to a new product - if it is clear beyond any doubt that its analysis features are not only superior to those of Fritz or Chessbase 9 but also more user-friendly.

The most advanced analysis feature is Chess Assistants "Background Analysis", which is especially suited for deep analysis of complicated positions and variations, thus being highly valuable for serious correspondence chess players. The only drawback of this function, as with many other fine features of Chess Assistant, was that it required quite some time to learn and understand its many options. (In terms of usability it will be important to provide high-quality instructional material with the new Rybka GUI, and maybe even offer instructor courses as suggested by Roger earlier. By the way, thank you very much Dadi for your great introduction docs! Maybe these could be used as a starting point for a "First Steps" manual later?)

If this is not already planned, I would like to suggest to implement Chess Assistant's "Background Analysis", or maybe an even slightly more user friendly version of it, in the new Rybka GUI.

Best regards to you all,

Sam
Parent - - By Zruty (*****) [ru] Date 2007-06-19 12:28

>If this is not already planned, I would like to suggest to implement Chess Assistant's "Background Analysis", or maybe an even slightly more user friendly version of it, in the new Rybka GUI.


It's not only planned, there is already an implementation of, as we call it, delayed analysis. Although the delayed analysis in Rybka GUI will have less features than its CA counterpart, we tried to make the feature easy to understand.
Parent - - By rivaldo (***) [de] Date 2007-08-02 18:57
untill now I am not familiar with chess assistant, but I definitely will buy the new rybka GUI. so I am not sure whether I understand background analysis and delayed analysis correctly. it might correspond to a feature I'd like to have:

I play correspondence chess and use some chessbase software and rybka (of course). usually I have several games running and many more positions to analyse. normally my analysis is purely interactive and only occasionally I let the engine calculate for an hour or longer. since I use only one computer there's no way to simultanously analyse one position (inter)actively and some other(s) in the background. I am probably going to buy a 2 or 4 core CPU soon and then the reccources could be split more effectively by using one core for my active analysis and the other for pure engine calculation. this way I also don't waste cpu-time on parallelism difficulties in chess engines. so it would be great to have several chessboard windows to which you could distribute your CPU-power. I guess this is not that easy, because also the RAM use has to be shared somehow.

will something like this be implemented or is this already planned and how difficult is this?
Parent - - By Zruty (*****) [ru] Date 2007-08-03 07:01
Well, it's not like this. Let me describe the typical usage of delayed analysis. Some variation of this may be useful for any correspondence player.

1. I'm playing a corresponcence game and it's me to move. I analyse the position in the game and find, say, 4 candidate moves.

2. For each of them I try to find the best answer from my opponent. Let's say I've got 4 candidate moves for each of my 4 moves - total 16 positions. Note that I'm not using the delayed analysis yet, everything I'm doing manually.

3. Each of the 16 found positions I'd like to analyse more deeply. I don't mean leaving Rybka calculating for days, I mean the 'autoplay' mechanism, i.e.
   a) Analyse the position and find the best move
   b) Make this move, analyse the resulting position and find the best move from there.
   c) repeat b) 5 more times (or more. Or less).
This will mean analysing 16*6=96 positions. I'm not doing it now, I'm sending this task for delayed analysis.

4. Also I'd like to find whether I missed some move in initial position or in one of 4 possible next positions. I'd like to analyse next 2 best moves in each of these 5 positions (to the total of 6 possible moves in each position) and 'autoplay' them like I did in step 3.
This will give me 2*5*6 = 60 more positions to analyse. I send the corresponding task for delayed analysis.

5. I start the delayed analysis and go to sleep.

6. I wake up :) I import the night's analysis into my analysis tree (that's the CA structure for storing positions and analysis).

7. Now I have rather deep knowledge of my game's position, I've analysed more than 150 positions and everything is stored in the tree (that means 'not lost') and I spent only an hour or two of my own time (and a night of automatic computing).

I hope this will help you to understand these things :)
Parent - By rivaldo (***) [de] Date 2007-08-03 09:59
thx very much. now I understand this delayed analysis. in fact it's not that different from what I suggested. to be able to specify certain positions and get some automatic analysis is useful of course.
I am looking forward to the new GUI :-)
Parent - - By shogi64 (*) [us] Date 2007-09-11 15:55
can delayed analysis be running together with what would i assume need to be
a second instance of rybka (at least the eval fxn and output)...

i.e. can you be working on the main board while delayed analysis is running
or does it hog the whole machine (it is not a seperate process or instance).
if i were to stay up instead of sleep, delayed analysis would be playing out the moves on which board (board main, analysis etc.)

e.g. i can be looking over a second stem game and since my opponent tomorrow
may play this totally different line...i find a rare move in a position i think he may be heading for...
can i then add this seperate starting position (a whole seperate analysis tree) to delayed analysis
similar to the steps you've described.

i.e. sequential instances of delayed analysis to be performed, possible?

i assume the analysis trees are saved with the stem game, are marked and can be easily retrieved for the next encounter.  Correct?
Parent - By Victor Zakharov (*****) [ru] Date 2007-09-18 09:07
Delayed analysis in independent process, so you can do any things in parallel, includig sending new positions to analyze.
Parent - By Zruty (*****) [ru] Date 2007-09-18 09:47
As Victor said, the delayed analysis is a stand-alone program, so if you stay awake at night you'll be able to use the GUI. Have in mind though that the processor will be busy by the analysis.
Parent - By rainerM (**) [eu] Date 2007-08-22 16:55
Another interesting feature would be backsolving for finding hole in opening variations, I mean you have a positive percentage in a certain variation but only one ist destroying this variation. In bookup you can find such a tool. But it is very compicate and the results are disappointing. Perhaps one can make it better. R.Maikowski
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / "Background Analysis"

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