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- - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 03:34
Vas,

Please look at this:

6k1/bp3rp1/P2pr1np/5p2/2P2Pn1/P2P1NPq/1B3P1P/R2Q1RK1 w - - 0 22


I couldn't believe that i mated Rybka 2.3.2 in 21 moves is there something wrong?

time 40/5

r1b1k2r/2q1bpp1/p1pp1n1p/4p3/2B1P3/2N1B3/PPP1QPPP/R4RK1 w kq - 0 13

this one i drew
Parent - - By insipid (**) Date 2007-06-14 03:39
Pretty sure you're not making any sense here.  If you're claiming to have mated Rybka in 21 moves please show the entire game..
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 03:47
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-06-14 03:56
wow. I'd like to see the games too.
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:09
Vas,

Something else i have noticed in playing rybka 2.3.2 sometimes the kns drop to zero or 1?  is it my GUI or does anyone else have same thing happen?  Could this be the reason for rybka 2.3.2 lose?
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-14 05:50
Have you activated preserve option?
Parent - By er (**) Date 2007-06-14 06:03
Wenn die 'Priorität' meinst, die beim UCI-Installieren
abgefragt wird:
dort habe ich ein Häkchen gesetzt.

EGR
Parent - - By er (**) Date 2007-06-14 06:01
Yes, I observed the same long moments of 0 kn/sec.
I use Rybka 2.3.2 only together with ChessBase 9.

EGR
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-14 06:07
Nein, ich meine Preserve Analysis.
Der KN drop passiert dann, bevor rybka die ersten wirklichen Kalkulationsdaten für den Ply bekommt, den sie berechnet. Meines Erachten ist das kein realer Drop, nur ein Fehler in der Anzeige.
Parent - By fhub (**) Date 2007-06-14 19:37

>Nein, ich meine Preserve Analysis.


Sollte das nicht ´Präservativ-Analyse´ heißen? :-)
Parent - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2007-06-14 14:51
Yes I noticed it in some longer games. Right after the move of the opponent Rybka takes some time to display the 'normal' Kn/s. I guess in this time it's using mostly data out of the hash table instead of doing calculation itself. Seems like a cosmetic problem only, with no strength impact what so ever.
Parent - By Svilponis (***) Date 2007-06-14 19:08 Edited 2007-06-14 19:20
I have found this problem in 2.3.2 too. In my case, calculation drops to almost zero and no results shown. But when I move back or ahead everything works normal again.
Test environment - Win XP 32 bit + Shredder 9 UCI + Rybka 2.3.2 32 bit single processor version.
By the way, if I stop calculation, the results will be shown.
Parent - - By insipid (**) Date 2007-06-14 14:55
What about the game in that list where you drew Rybka in 3 moves with black?  Want to explain that one?

Showing a list of opponents and results is supposed to prove what, exactly?  It's very easy to copy and paste the games, and a lot of us aren't going to take you seriously until you do so.  After all I see no reason why you wouldn't, if what you're claiming is true.  Obviously we could tell you a lot more if we saw the entire games, so do post them.
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 19:15
Insipid in that 3 move game that was a game that i started over when i discovered that i did the wrong opening.  However like i said before i'm not asking you to believe me i proved the games in photo in question and I'm just pointing out facts that seem to have the whole room in agreement with me.  So believe as you like just trying to figure out why this.
Parent - - By insipid (**) Date 2007-06-15 01:00
The point is clearly some of those games are not legit, a screenshot of various such results does not 'prove' anything, nor does two FEN positions in your OP.  I have no idea what you are really trying to say, how strong you are, or whether or not these games are real - further I see no reason why you haven't simply posted the games, which is easier to do than taking the screenshot you took, and has far, far more to say.

This kind of information helps the 'room' figure out whatever it is you're trying to figure out.  You seem to be unable to point out the 'facts' you wish to have us discuss so I give up.
Parent - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-15 02:54
insipid like i said before i was stating out a fake that the KN drops to 0 and it played a weaker move leading it to lose or draw.  I don't care if you believe that rybka can lose or not.  I am not here to argue like you wish to do so.  I am pretty good player and I don't know why I must prove myself to you over or make up something that wouldn't be true when all i first said was that when my KN dropped to 0 it lost the game.  If you don't agree with this topic or care then move on please.  I'm not going to fall into the argument that you wish to.  But you can bet next time i beat i will post your photo and positions just for you!!! If you have nothing constuctive to say please just move on.
Parent - - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-06-14 04:14
     Without seeing the game, or knowing your rating, or knowing the hardware, it's hard to say too much, but I'll make this comment. Your record shows you lost by 14-1, with a few draws. Assuming that you are a master-level blitz player, and that the hardware is just a 32 bit SP machine, it's not so surprising for you to win one game out of this many, if perhaps the opening book landed you in the type of position you know well and Rybka doesn't like. If you are going to win a game at all, a quick attacking win is perhaps the most likely way. As for the draws, my guess is that you did not set a contempt factor; try it with contempt at .25 or more and I'll bet you won't get many draws. Especially a twelve move draw; sounds like Rybka took a repetition just because she was Black.
     Oh, I just saw your note about KN dropping to near zero. Then surely a problem with your system is the culprit here.
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:20
Ikaufman ty for the reply its funny everything was working fine then when i beat Rybka i notice the kN drop and thought it was just me I will keep trying and see.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-06-14 04:23
Hi shauntx,

Are you playing her at full strength-I believe she is pre-set at 1200-although I might be wrong!

Regards,

sidserious
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:26
i will check to make sure ty
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-06-14 04:28
Hi shauntx,

If you haven't changed it then it is still set at 1200 elo.

regards,

Robert
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:40
yes i have changed and and yet to draw or beat rybka 2.3.2 but the kN still dropping to zero or 1 in my game checked on my laptop and and desktop sometimes out of no where when my rybka is thinking it just DROPS :(
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-14 06:10 Edited 2007-06-14 06:14
In my opinion it's not a real thing, but just a mistake in display. It happens when she calculates the first move of a new ply, perhaps connected with having checked Preserve Analysis. And it takes a while because calculating the first move always takes it's time.
Parent - By tigershark (**) Date 2007-06-14 06:06
not pre-set at 1200 elo at all. At least not on the single processor 32 bit version
Parent - - By h1a8 (***) Date 2007-06-14 19:18
Please post the game where you won if you dare.
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 20:26
i did its the first picture if you past that position you will see
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2007-06-14 20:52
<sarcasm> If you don't understand the difference between "game" and "position" I have serious doubts about whether you won that game without help... </sarcasm>

Seriously. Posting the game is going to help solve the problem.
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 20:33
its funny how certain people can try and cause arguments within a forum h1a8 I don't understand if you want to argue by saying if I dare or what but its not gonna work all i'm looking for is a way to find out if i'm doing something wrong as far as options or something...wrong gui?  I didn't ask you to believe me i simply posted and others have found the same problems as I did.
Parent - By h1a8 (***) Date 2007-06-14 21:39 Edited 2007-06-14 21:45
I apologize if you are sincere and not lying. Please forgive me.
You will be surprise by how many people say bogus things without actually posting a game.
I even see one person get caught in the act on another forum.

It is greatly possible that you beat rybka in 21 moves due to an error or bug.
But it is very important to post the game (not just for people to believe you). Others (especially Vas and Larry) will try to duplicate or go over the game to see where the problem lies (like with rybka's evaluation, search, gui implementation, your hardware system etc.). I mean posting the actual game does way more than you can imagine (and not just getting people to believe you). Sorry again if you are telling the truth.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-06-14 04:23
Mr Kaufman, my kns is dropping to zero (or close to it) from time to time as well - I've also talked with several others having the same issue on Playchess. I'm confident it is not a problem with my system. I have not had this problem with any other Rybka version. 
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:25
billyraybar,

So you are having problems with KN too?  I thought it was my system but it might not be now.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-06-14 04:43 Edited 2007-06-14 04:48
Seems it''s not our systems.  Unless we all have the same thing wrong with our system. I've talked to 3 different people having same problem.  I have amd 4200+, 1024gb hash, 2 gb ram, win xp 64bit, virtually no  unnecessary programs running ..can't figure it out. Using fritz 10 gui, created uci engine with checking the box 'set engine priority to low'.  I checked both instances or rybka in task manager and both are 'below normal' priority. Can't figure it out.
Parent - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:50
Your guess is as good as mine because i just checked again and same problem.  Vas if you have any idea why this is happen or if its just rybka 2.3.2 mp x64 verison? please email me:    thehurricane3@hotmail.com
Parent - - By Michael Waesch Date 2007-06-14 04:54
I run the 64 bit version on a similar system and do not encounter these problems. But I didn´t check that box in Fritz GUI, because I know that Rybka is already configured to run one thread on below normal. May be you want to just try to create Rybka UCI again and this time not checking that box.

Mike
Parent - - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 04:57
did that but same thing happening hmmmm.......  I don't know what else to do. I even just reinstalled my GUI to make sure all is correct.
Parent - - By Michael Waesch Date 2007-06-14 05:00
I don´t know if this also applies here, but you may want to have a look here too:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=1157

Mike
Parent - - By Michael Waesch Date 2007-06-14 05:15
You also may try:

* Use the Fritz 8 - GUI. Some people say it´s the best.
* Create another Rybka UCI, but this time go into engine settings, just put contempt to 1 and give it a different name.
* Run Rybka under Arena.

Mike
Parent - - By er (**) Date 2007-06-14 06:14
I used ChessBase 9 with every Rybka version before
and never got that kn-dropping problem.

Only with 232 I get 0 kn and freezing for some sec to have a minute.
(Pentium 4 with 1 GB RAM; Rybka 2.3.2 / 32bit under WinXP).

EGR
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-14 06:21
Probably just a mistake in display when starting a new ply. Nothing real.
Parent - - By er (**) Date 2007-06-14 08:45
What does 'contempt 1' versus  'contempt 0' mean?

EGR
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2007-06-14 09:07
It'll prefer equal positions to repetitions. Obviously, the practical effect is very small.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-06-14 05:16
Hi shauntx,

Are you using Fritz GUI as well?
Parent - By shauntx (*) Date 2007-06-14 12:27
I used fritz 10 but recently switched to fritz 8 its funny because when rybka is winning and then KN drop to 0 its like a whole new engine appears as if it gets lost in the game.  what gui should I switch to?
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2007-06-14 05:15 Edited 2007-06-14 05:18
Hi Bill,

I am not getting any of these issues using Shredder, Arena or CA 8.1. I am not sure if this is intrinsic to Fritz 10 GUI-

regards,

Robert
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2007-06-14 13:00
You want to see this issue in shredder GUI? Then take this position
rk6/pP1p4/B4p2/8/4K3/6b1/8/8 b - - 0 7

and let Rybka 2.3.2 analyse. When Rybka sees, that white is better, force the move.
Parent - By lkaufman (*****) Date 2007-06-14 22:10
Just a suggestion -- try reducing hash to 512k (it makes almost no difference in normal play, might even be better in fast play). One would think that 1024 should be okay with 2 gb ram, but I wonder if somehow it isn't. Let us know if this helps.
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2007-06-14 05:55
Not necessarily. In the Fritz GUI KN drops regularly to zero or a very low count when you have an active preserve option. It's not a real thing, though. As soon as she gets the first data of the first move in the ply count she is really calculating, then KN will show normal numbers.
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-06-14 06:32 Edited 2007-06-14 06:37
I think you are right.  Here's an picture of what's going on. The gui is showing depth 18 and 19 found with zero time - these depths popped up immediately after rybka made its prior move.  As soon as move 20 was reached (first move with a time stamp), the kn/s went back to a normal level.  So it seems that the kn/s will show a low number until after a new depth is reached.
So
[img][url=http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?f6599b89ee.jpg]
Parent - - By billyraybar (***) Date 2007-06-14 08:14 Edited 2007-06-14 08:29
Here's another example.  The gui showed as starting point of depth 17, being reached in 0 seconds. The  kn/sec showed zero as well until 7 minutes 12 seconds when depth 19 was reached then it showed 187 kn/s.  And below that you can see rybka 2.3 output starting from depth 2.  As a sidenote I found the 12...d5 and 13...bb7 combination rather stunning.
[img]url=http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?fad2da8a13.jpg][/url]
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2007-06-14 10:42
I would be extremely surprised if you can beat Rybka 2.3.2 in 21 moves let alone in 200 moves.  To make sure that the problem is not in your system, try playing some of the weaker Rybka's on Playchess.  I think the Rybka's with your hardware will be around 2200 ELO.  Give them a go and see how that goes, if you can beat it then I would be very impressed indeed.
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 2.3.2 ???
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