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- - By masterofgrandmasters (*) Date 2009-08-06 11:42
when would rybka 4 be released?

any tentative time line?
Parent - - By Kapaun (****) Date 2009-08-06 12:16
Winter would probably a good guess.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-08-07 02:19
Winter 2010?!
Parent - - By vdragan (***) Date 2009-08-07 19:41
and also do not forget that robot of the future is named HAL because of Odyssey 2001 :)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-08-08 08:00

> and also do not forget that robot of the future is named HAL because of Odyssey 2001 :-)


That's the joke.

--------
2001: A Space Odyssey successfully predicted that robots of the future would be called HAL.
Parent - By vdragan (***) Date 2009-08-09 13:50
of course...I know.  This was also supposed to be joke :)
Parent - - By dcorbit (***) Date 2009-08-11 01:00
Either that, or:
H+1 = I
A+1 = B
L+1 = M
and it was an 'IBM' Joke.

At least there is chess content, considering 1997.

The other computer related HAL is 'Hardware Abstraction Layer' for Windows NT and derivatives.  I doubt if that was what was meant, but you never know.
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-08-11 01:05
iirc kubrick always denied this was the case, which would make it a truly remarkable coincidence. a bit unfortunate, also, as its quite clever imo.
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-11 03:52
I´m sure, HAL as well as IBM can dream! :-)
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2009-08-11 09:49

> and derivatives.


You're saying Linux and FreeBSD are derivatives of Windows NT?
Parent - By Kapaun (****) Date 2009-08-07 20:36
If it would be 2010 I'd suspect some ELO problems... ;-)
Parent - By pokerpawn (***) Date 2009-08-06 13:00
I think it is still on for end of this year (november /december)
Unless Vas has any other news ?
maybe a post on how the development is going what still has to be tackled ? :)
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-08-06 14:25
Of course it would be cool to have it ready for christmas :) Anyway, Vas will inform you here in the forum if there's something new.
Parent - - By Gaмßito (****) Date 2009-08-06 20:48
I thought that you had already asked this question to Vas personally in Mainz, but it seems that it was not this way. Why?

Today we are at, one year exactly since Rybka 3 came out, and many persons are still continue waiting for Rybka 3+ but there are not information nor dates at all about that. One long year to fix these bugs  has been too long, and keeping in mind that Rybka 4 will come out only a little bit time later of this version, it does not have too much sense.

Sadly, we also don't have any information by Vas of what will come exactly with Rybka 4. No dates, no real information about improvements, and a very long delay too.

Regards,
Gaмßito.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-08-06 21:28
Of course we talked about it in Mainz. You will get the information from Vas when there's something new. There's no point in giving such information if the release is not close enough to be sure, release dates that are moved again and again don't make much sense.
Parent - - By Razor (****) Date 2009-08-06 21:36
Simple answer - don't move them!  :o)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-06 22:22
My answer: Release it, when it´s good enough for Vas! When it´s good enough for Vas, it´s good enough for us! But please, don´t release it before! No pressure by the audience!
Parent - By davidwhite (***) Date 2009-08-07 07:04
Roland's answer is the only reasonable one for anybody who genuinely wants Vas to develop Rybka in an orderly fashion. Pestering Vas to release an upgraded edition of Rybka before he's
satisfied that it's ready for release is not reasonable.

Respectfully,
David
Parent - - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-08-07 07:19

> My answer: Release it, when it´s good enough for Vas! When it´s good enough for Vas, it´s good enough for us! But please, don´t release it before! No pressure by the audience!


I agree Roland, we don't want to see posts that Rybka does not understand the Blindbishop endgame :)
Parent - - By Akbarfan (***) Date 2009-08-07 11:29
but it will be, maybe not for R4 but sure for R3+ :-)
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-08-07 14:09

> but it will be, maybe not for R4 but sure for R3+ :-)


Probably not, becasue R3+ is a weakened version of R4 :)
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2009-08-07 09:45
razor is a genius!
Parent - By herakleitos (***) Date 2009-08-07 02:48
After we have all died off from the agony of anticipation.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2009-08-07 05:38
Still TBD.

Vas
Parent - - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2009-08-07 09:49
Funny to me how people don't get anything out of Rybka 3 now that they see Rybka 4 on the horizon. As if a 3100+ ELO program, and the strongest in the world, isn't strong enough for their analysis. If you find faults in it then perhaps you are stronger than rybka in which case there is no need for the engine in the first place now is there?

<insert flame here> :)
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-08-07 10:28

> Funny to me how people don't get anything out of Rybka 3 now that they see Rybka 4 on the horizon. As if a 3100+ ELO program, and the strongest in the world, isn't strong enough for their analysis. If you find faults in it then perhaps you are stronger than rybka in which case there is no need for the engine in the first place now is there?
>


I guess Mike the Permanent Brain will agree with you :)
Parent - By masterofgrandmasters (*) Date 2009-08-07 10:35
thanks for all your replies. well i just wanted to know when can it be expected. DOES NOT matter how soon or how late!

Of course everyone like BUG free stuff, but we all know that is not going to happen.

One thing i liked in VAS's reply- its good nOT to tell what more one would get in R4 compared to R3. :)

[all of us like when we get more than expected]

R3 is fantastic - no doubt!
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2009-08-07 11:10
To be fair, for Analysis Rybka 3+ is already here and this is a huge boost for people that do endgame analysis or need good solid understanding of some endgame positions where EGTB bug might be rampant.  It used to be that when there is a position that is "endgamey" you switch to another engine or use SP Rybka.  Now you simply change the hash and go back into the engine and you are in business.  Ofcourse it would be nice to have Rybka play like that without having to do esoteric workarounds, but at least for analysis or even for one off games this is not a problem anymore.  Rybka 3+ or Rybka 3 with the workaround seems to play around 10 to 15 ELO stronger than Rybka 3 at time controls of 5 0 or slower, that is probably higher at classical time controls simply because the bug is ELO independent and will play wrong moves just as readily at fast time controls as slow time controls.  It would be nice if CB would have the workaround hardwired for Rybka in its next GUI update and then we won't have to worry about R3+ and will only look forward to R4.  On the other hand Vas could probably do the fix via an engine update or a simple file that would add code needed for proper engine initialization.
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-08-07 13:12
change the hash? rybka 3+ already here? could you elaborate please?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-08-07 16:10
The big thread at the top of the page, it tells you about the workaround of the MPTablebase bug (or that the bug doesn't exists in Aquarium.)
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2009-08-08 05:34
It all comes down to this: if you're using Fritz GUI, just restart Rybka with either changing the hash size (and again restart with desired hash size), or with MaxCPU changed from 2048 to n-1 (n your number of cores) and again restart with n or 2048, and MP TB bug is gone.
Parent - By AgentEE7 (**) Date 2009-08-09 07:21
Rybka 3+ is not already here.  I purchased with Aquarium interface and fixing a Chessbase interface only bug doesn't improve Rybka for me.  I'm assuming that Rybka 3+ will include some improvements also when used in Aquarium.
Parent - By Akbarfan (***) Date 2009-08-07 11:45
Maybe some people want to shorter analysis times, of course it's better to have solutions in 30 min than in 1 hour. Isn't it? :-)
Parent - By wgs77 (*) Date 2009-08-11 16:27
I'm still running Rybka 2.3.2a (I purchased it a few months before Rybka 3 was released).  Since there was no free or discounted upgrade path to Rybka 3, I'm staying with Rybka 2.3.2a until Rybka 4 comes out.  Rybka 2.3.2a still manages to have a winning record against all the other "Non-Rybka" engines in my personal engine tournaments.  It even still has a winning record versus Zappa Mexico II.  Rybka 2.3.2a could still probably beat Anand in a 10 game match.  For what its worth from my tournaments, Rybka 2.3.2a is so much stronger than Rybka 2.2 (the current free version), that Vas could have justified making Rybka 2.3.2a a full release, instead of just a ".x" upgrade.
Parent - - By chessprofessional (**) Date 2009-08-07 13:02
There is no need to turn out a new program (rybka 4) to sell while the rybka 3 best in the world. If the shredder 12 or Fritz 12 be better than rybka 3 then it is sufficient reason for the arrival of rybka 4.
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-08-07 13:23
Earlier I thought that I had heard rumors that Rybka 4 would be released very early next year.  Of course, very ideal would be to release it just before Christmas.  Also very ideal would be to get rid of the single core/multicore version model and go to a multicore/cluster version model.  Practically anyone who has bought a computer in the last 3 years has a multicore chip.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 00:46
You are right! With Rybka 4 we will see a new price model:

Rybka 4 w32 (1-2 cores): $79   (€59)
Rybka 4 x64  (1-2 cores): $129 (€99)
Rybka 4 unlimited:         : $199 (€149)

And Rybka Cluster 1.0 x64 will be released in summer 2010 for the price of: $399 (€299).

PS: You have to pay for the benefit!
PS2: The scientists debate until now, if 1-2 cores is the right bar or better 1-4 cores? :-)
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-08-08 01:08
Roland, I sure hope your price estimates are off.  :)  I could see the cluster being released later next year.  Let's hope that you are right.
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 01:13
It wasn´t my idea to talk about a new price model! :-)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 01:09
Oh, I forgot Rybka 4 Starter: $54.90 (€39). :-)

Rybka 4 Starter will not be sold in US or Western Europe. It´s a single processor version of Rybka 4 (w32 and x64) and can be buyed only in LDC!

PS: LDC=less developed country.
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-08-08 01:12
Why would Vas follow Microsoft's model with a starter/basic version?  ;)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 01:16
Because Vas has a heart of gold! :-)
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-08-08 01:22
Either that or, just like Microsoft, he just wants our gold!
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 01:38
I´m sure, Steve (Ballmer) has a heart of gold too! :-)

PS: I´m not sure, if Neelie (Kroes) has a heart of gold.
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-08-08 01:42
We all know that Chessbase has one!
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 01:48
Maybe (I have doubts :-)), but they don´t count, when you have a look to the Rybka Industries reigned by Vas! :-)
Parent - - By Capa (***) Date 2009-08-08 01:55
You do recall the golden rule:  He who has the gold makes the rules!  :)
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-08-08 02:04
Yes, and therefore I respect people, who can withdraw themselves, although they have the power (gold).

PS: IBM is a good example for the other side! :-)
Parent - By InspectorGadget (*****) Date 2009-08-08 16:36

> Oh, I forgot Rybka 4 Starter: $54.90 (€39). :-)
>
> Rybka 4 Starter will not be sold in US or Western Europe. It´s a single processor version of Rybka 4 (w32 and x64) and can be buyed only in LDC!


Maybe Vas should show the spirit of Ubuntu/Botho by selling Rybka 4 MP at the price of  $54.90 (€39) to Africa :)
Parent - - By wgs77 (*) Date 2009-08-08 03:59 Edited 2009-08-08 04:25
Roland,

If your estimates on the high price and CPU limitations are true, that would be a real shame.

Vas has a strong following now, but if he increases the price too much, and limits the # of CPU's too much,
he may lose alot of his loyal customers forever.  Once a customer leaves, they rarely come back.

I was hoping Vas would have been content getting $100 US from each of us once a year to upgrade to the latest Rybka.
Once the price jumps to $200, and he starts limiting CPU's, its going to be pretty hard to justify making a purchase.

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm being honest when I say: If Rybka follows that price model that you mentioned,
I will probably abandon Rybka and instead purchase one of the other strong rapidly improving engines, like Naum.

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