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Poll Who will win in Main (Chess960)? (Closed)
Rybka 73 85%
Shredder 7 8%
Sjeng 5 6%
Ikarus 1 1%
- - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-28 03:52
We have 4 participants: Rybka, Shredder, Sjeng and Ikarus.
Tc is 20'+5" and they play on Intel quad (no Nehalem).

Schedule: 29-31 july; First two days RR at 11:00 12:30 14:00 German time. Finals (four games and maybe tiebreak) at 31 july at 11:00 12:30 14:00 15:30 (and 17:00 tiebreak if necessary).
Will we see the same final like last year (Rybka vs. Shredder)? Shredder is brand new and will be released after the tournament (I assume). Which Rybka version will play in Mainz? Did Vas make a new version of Rybka for this tournament? I´m not sure. I think this tournament is a good point to see where are the improvements of Ryba, Shredder and Sjeng.
Parent - - By GCP (***) Date 2009-07-28 09:40
It seems likely there will be a 5+5 blitz tournament as well.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-28 19:14
cool :)

Btw., I don't participate in the tournaments (tomorrow there will be a torunament where one of the kids from my club will participate in, but I won't play the chess960 tournament on Thursday/Friday), so I have a lot of time and plan to play some blitz games against Vas. Last year only Jeroen was not afraid to play against me (we played just one game where I tricked him in a completely lost position :) ), but this year Vas will have no excuses ;)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-07-28 19:26
I hope Vas will have the valid excuse that he has a hard time concentrating on your games because they are insignificant compared to the monumental improvements he is thinking through for inclusion in Rybka 4. :-) If this doesn't work, he can always have Iweta crush you!
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-28 19:31
Iweta is playing another tournament, so there is little hope for Vas ;)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-28 19:44
Iweta won today her game and opened the game with the famous move: 1. b3!! :-)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-07-28 19:52
Game reference please?
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-28 19:58
I found the game on the CB server.

[Event "Polish Womens Championships MPK2009"]
[Site "Bogatynia POL"]
[Date "2009.07.28"]
[Round "10"]
[White "Rajlich, Iweta"]
[Black "Jakubiec, Edyta"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A01"]
[WhiteElo "2448"]
[BlackElo "2217"]
[PlyCount "49"]
[EventDate "2009.??.??"]

1. b3 e5 2. Bb2 Nc6 3. e3 d6 4. d4 exd4 5. exd4 Qe7+ 6. Be2 Bg4 7. h3 Bxe2 8.
Nxe2 O-O-O 9. d5 Ne5 10. Nbc3 Kb8 11. f4 Nd7 12. Qd2 Re8 13. O-O-O Qe3 14. Qxe3
Rxe3 15. Nd4 Ngf6 16. g4 g6 17. Rde1 Rxe1+ 18. Rxe1 Bg7 19. Re7 Rf8 20. Ne6
fxe6 21. Rxg7 Rg8 22. Rxg8+ Nxg8 23. dxe6 Nf8 24. f5 Kc8 25. Nd5 {White wins
1-0} 1-0
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-07-29 12:35
Looks like black cannot allow white to play d5 (which could have been played on move 7).
Parent - - By chessprofessional (**) Date 2009-07-28 11:04
Shredder's team go in Main  with shredder 12 and if they'll win - this is good dodger for shredder 12. But rybka's team go in Main with rybka 4 100 %.
Parent - By jeandis (***) Date 2009-07-28 12:22
I believe shredder will be the champion. This is my hope to give more interest in playchess. Rybka is a dictature in chess for this moment. Where is the fritz team as well as junior??? there are gave up the search?  Is the rybka team and programer stronger than them??
Parent - By Trahald (**) Date 2009-07-28 13:22
I'm taking a punt on Sjeng, it was quite dominant in the qualifier.

Also looking forward to seeing how much Shredder has improved. I don't think there will be much to seperate the these 2 and Rybka. Looking forward to it!
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 13:45
Official site: http://www.chesstigers.de/ccm9.php?lang=1

After 4 rounds Rybka has 4/4 if I look at the PGN.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 14:11
Great games (endgames :-)) from Rybka vs. Sjeng.
Parent - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 14:13
Live games can be followed here:

http://www.chesstigers.de/live/ccm9_cwc/live.htm
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 14:15
After 5 rounds Rybka has 5/5! Rybka won with black against Shredder!
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 14:32
Exchange up in round 6 vs Shredder, so 6/6 coming up?
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 14:46
Yep, Rybka also won in round 6 and now has 6/6!
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 15:04
I think, Rybka has to play tommorow again 6 games. But I think she has good chances to play the big final at friday. :-)
It will be interesting to see who will be the opponent in the final. Even now Sjeng has advantage.
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 15:50
And now we have 6/7! Rybka lose against Sjeng! :-( And Shredder lose against Ikarus!
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 16:32
Heh? I thought there were only 6 rounds today?
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 16:36 Edited 2009-07-29 16:39
No, they are still playing! :-)
But there was a fault in Livestream. (They changed the games. The game Ikarus vs. Shredder was in real Rybka vs Sjeng and otherwise). It´s now corrected! Rybka won and Shredder won. So Rybka has 7/7! :-)
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 16:45
Maybe they stopped now, because the humans (Aronian etc) are playing now (since 18:30h)!
It´s a little bit chaos there I think! :-)
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 16:56
I am sure it is 6 rounds in the WC only. Perhaps this is the Rybka-Sjeng game from an earlier round. Or are they playing the 5' blitz tourney, as Gian-Carlo wrote somewhere?
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 17:12
Look to the latest schedule (5.Livingstone ..). You can see there are 12 rounds for qualifying for the finals. Seven rounds are played and five rounds will be played tomorrow.
Okay, I concede, it´s all a little bit dubious!
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-29 18:53 Edited 2009-07-29 18:56
There will be a blitz tournament tomorrow, so we played the first round of tomorrow today and therefore will have time to play the blitz tourney.
And yes, the score is 7/7 so far
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-07-29 19:38
Ah, that explains it :-). Is the blitz a little extra, or does it count as the 'FRC blitz WC'?

BTW, send my regards to Vas!
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-29 19:48
I don't know what it is, I guess it's just fun.

Of course I'll forward your regards tomorrow :)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 21:37
It´s the best tournament by far I see from Rybka until now! And I saw many good tournaments from Rybka in the past.
No opening book, equal hardware (Intel Core2Quad Q9400 2,67GHz/1333MHz :-)) and I see only victims but no opponents for Rybka! Last year the tournament was more thrilling. This year the only thrill is the score of Rybka (maybe we will see 100% in the 16? games).
It was a good day for the Rajlich family! Vas won all 7 games and Iweta won her game today too and the tournament (Polish Womens Championships) with 9/11! :-)
Parent - By M ANSARI (*****) Date 2009-07-30 12:48 Edited 2009-07-30 12:51
With equal hardware and no opening book is simply giving too much advantage to Rybka.  Anyway I think this is a good idea to do engine matches with no opening books and I hope it catches on for classical chess as well.  Opening books give too much advantage to someone that has the resources to create a super strong book and mask true strengths or weaknesses of engines.  Logs should be available to make sure that nobody "hardwires" opening lines into their engine.
Parent - By FWCC (***) Date 2009-07-30 12:58
Oh MY! Iweta won the Tour!?  Congrats!What is the website?
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-29 14:46
6/6! Not so bad! :-)
Parent - By Ray (****) Date 2009-07-29 18:51
On equal hardware too....
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-29 19:49
yes, quite ok. 7/7 is also good...
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-30 09:55
8/8 :D

I'll drive to Mainz now, was sleeping a bit longer today :)
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2009-07-30 10:53
9/9
Crosstable anyone?
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-07-30 12:01
Pretty incredible performance.
Considering it was said all were using the same h/w and no opening books, this shows significant - immeasurable yet I guess? - edge of Rybka960 over the other 3 engines who participated.
Parent - - By Trahald (**) Date 2009-07-30 12:57
11/11 now. Truly astonishing performance from Rybka. Up until now I had believed that other engines were gradually closing the gap. Now I wonder if the opposite is true.

I assume that the Rybka team is running the latest build of what is to become R4?
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-30 12:58
Yes, we use the latest Rybka under the latest Aquarium version :)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-30 13:38
11.5/12! :-(
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-07-30 14:18
EGTB bug by Rybka on the last drawn game, it seems.
Parent - - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2009-07-30 14:43
[Event "Livingston Chess960 Computer World Championship"]
[Site "Chess Classic Mainz 2009"]
[Date ""]
[Round "12"]
[White "Deep Shredder"]
[Black "Rybka "]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Variant "chess 960"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "brkbnrnq/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/BRKBNRNQ w FBfb - 0 1"]
[Board "1"]
[Input "DGT3123"]
[Owner "GRENKELEASING AG"]

1. e3 e5 2. Nd3 e4 3. Nf4 b6 4. f3 f5 5. Be2 g5 6. Nh5 Ngf6 7. Ng3 Nd6 8. b3
Qg8 9. Ba6+ Bb7 10. Bxb7+ Kxb7 11. N1e2 Be7 12. O-O-O Qg6 13. fxe4 Nfxe4 14.
Nxe4 fxe4 15. g4 Bf6 16. Bxf6 Rxf6 17. Ng3 Rbf8 18. c3 Rf3 19. Rxf3 Rxf3 20.
Rf1 Rxf1+ 21. Qxf1 Qe6 22. Nf5 Ne8 23. Kc2 c6 24. Qh3 Qd5 25. Qf1 Qe6 26. Nd4
Qf6 27. Qh3 Qg6 28. c4 Qg7 29. Qf1 Nd6 30. h3 a5 31. Ne2 Kc7 32. Nc3 Qe7 33.
Qg2 Qe5 34. Qf1 Qe7 35. Qg2 Qe5 36. Qf2 b5 37. cxb5 Nxb5 38. Qf5 Qxf5 39. gxf5
d5 40. Ne2 Kd7 41. a4 Nd6 42. Nd4 h5 43. Kd1 c5 44. Ne6 Nxf5 45. Nxg5 Nh4 46.
Ke2 Ng6 47. d3 exd3+ 48. Kxd3 Ne5+ 49. Ke2 h4 50. e4 d4 51. Nf3 Nxf3 52. Kxf3
Kd6 53. Ke2 Ke5 54. Kf3 d3 55. Ke3 d2 56. Kxd2 Kxe4 57. Kc3 Kf4 58. Kc4 Kg3 59.
Kxc5 Kxh3 60. b4 axb4 61. a5 b3 62. a6 b2 63. a7 b1=Q 64. a8=Q 1/2-1/2

Q7/8/8/2K5/7p/7k/8/1q6 b - -

Tablebase draw

> EGTB bug by Rybka on the last drawn game, it seems.


Did Rybka see herself winning in the endgame then? Old Shredder 9 thinks it is a dead draw after the last piece exchange, but if Rybka had avoided that by playing 51... Ng6 it is not certain that she would have won:

 
8/3k4/8/p1p1n3/P2pP2p/1P3N1P/4K3/8 b - -


Engine: Shredder 9 UCI (64 MB)
by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen

23/46  1:07   +0.76    51...Ng6 52.Kd2 Ke6 53.Kc1 Kf6
                       54.Kc2 Nf4 55.Nxh4 Ke5 56.Nf3+ Kxe4
                       57.Nd2+ Ke3 58.h4 (22.253.349) 330
                       TB:3.443

24/49  2:52   +0.82    51...Ng6 52.Kd2 Ke6 53.Kd1 Nf4
                       54.Nxh4 Nxh3 55.Ke2 Nf4+ 56.Kd2 Ke5
                       57.Nf5 Nh3 58.Ne7 (56.046.123) 324
                       TB:8.311

25/51  7:34   +0.76    51...Ng6 52.Kd3 Kd6 53.Kd2 Ke7
                       54.Kc2 Ke6 55.Kd1 Kf6 56.Kd2 Ke7
                       57.Kc2 Ke6 58.Kd1 Kf6 59.Kd2 Ke7 (144.844.652) 318
                       TB:29.944
Parent - By Eelco de Groot (***) Date 2009-07-30 15:21 Edited 2009-07-30 16:00
With EGTBs Rybka would have probably played 50... c4 that seems better:

8/3k4/8/p1ppn1N1/P3P2p/1P5P/4K3/8 b - -


Engine: Shredder 9 UCI (64 MB)
by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen

24/43  0:49   +0.95    50...c4 51.exd5 cxb3 52.Kd2 Nc4+
                       53.Kc3 b2 54.Kc2 Kd6 55.Nf3 Kxd5
                       56.Nxh4 Kc5 57.Nf3 Kb4 58.h4 Ka3
                       59.Kb1 Kxa4 60.h5 Kb3 61.Nd4+ (17.281.390) 352
                       TB:7.286

25/46  1:37   +0.95    50...c4 51.exd5 cxb3 52.Kd2 Kd6
                       53.Kc3 Kxd5 54.Kxb3 (34.729.448) 355
                       TB:12.259

26/47  3:12   +1.18    50...c4 51.exd5 cxb3 52.Kd2 Kd6
                       53.Kc3 Kxd5 54.Kxb3 (72.061.583) 373
                       TB:17.040

27/51  5:44   +1.18    50...c4 51.exd5 cxb3 52.Kd2 Nc4+
                       53.Kc3 b2 54.Kc2 Kd6 55.Nf3 Kxd5
                       56.Nxh4 Kc5 57.Nf3 Kb4 58.h4 Ka3
                       59.Kb1 Kxa4 (119.838.957) 348
                       TB:21.887

28/51  10:16  +1.19    50...c4 51.exd5 cxb3 52.Kd2 Nc4+
                       53.Kc3 b2 54.Kc2 Kd6 55.Nf3 Kxd5
                       56.Nxh4 Kc5 57.Nf3 Kb4 58.h4 Ka3
                       59.Kb1 Kxa4 (205.097.946) 332
                       TB:32.300

29/53  20:07  +1.25    50...c4 51.bxc4 dxc4 52.Kd2 Ke7
                       53.Nh7 Nf3+ 54.Kc3 Kf7 55.Kxc4 Kg7
                       56.Kb5 Kxh7 57.Kxa5 Ng5 58.Kb5 Nxh3
                       59.a5 Nf4 60.a6 h3 61.a7 h2 62.a8Q h1Q
                       63.Qa7+ (403.968.187) 334 TB:61.097

30/58  62:57  +1.36    50...c4 51.exd5 cxb3 52.Kd2 Kd6
                       53.Kc3 Kxd5 54.Kxb3 Kd4 55.Ne6+ Ke4
                       56.Kc3 Nf3 57.Nc5+ Kf4 58.Nb3 Ng1 (1.235.563.864) 327
                       TB:131.687
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-30 14:48
Operator bug. He forgot to install the EGTB.
Parent - - By Kappatoo (*****) Date 2009-07-30 14:51
Are the operators allowed to offer/accept a draw then?
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-30 14:54
yes, sure. that's what we did.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-07-30 14:56
Thanks for letting us know Felix. Indeed a super impressive performance.
When do the blitz games start? Do you know if they'll be broadcast as well?
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-07-30 21:27 Edited 2009-07-30 23:17
They started rigth after the tournament, I hope they were broadcasted :)

Shredder won the tournament half a point ahead of Rybka. Btw. the new Shredder will be out in September if everything is going well.
Parent - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-07-31 00:11

>... new Shredder will be out in September if everything is going well.


Thanks for the information. I was sure it would be released just after the tournament in Mainz.

PS: Today was a good day for SMK! :-)
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