titanium cranium is restricted to only Rybka 3 under Deep Position Analysis.
Vytron is restricted to only Rybka 3 with Infinite Analysis.
Your move, good luck!
I suggest 30/min move, so you put DPA to analyze for 30 minutes and play the best move suggested, then I put IA to analyze for 30 minutes and play the move suggested. To avoid interaction you'd start a new DPA from scratch every move, and I'd clear the hash every move.
Please look at this to see how forum games have been handled:
I could copy and paste the analysis output of Rybka and you could copy and paste the DPA output (so people can paste it to their Fritz GUI if interested.)
> interactive Infinite Analysis
What is this?? :-)
Seriously, what are you constraints in making your analysis, Vytron?
Bad luck. E4.
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5
> Do you people plan to post any AN of the moves?
Yes, as soon as we get out of book we're going to start posting full engine output.
> Did you decide on the CK for many of the same reasons I played it in our last match?
> Good luck my friend :-) !
Thanks, I hope Rybka 3 doesn't let me down, as for this game it's forbidden to interact with her, but it's a win-win situation, either I win or we discover that DPA is capable of finding better (or equal) moves than IA in the same time.
Rybka 3 64bit 3CPU 64MB RAM
11.00 0:01 +0.32 6...h5 7.h4 Nb6 8.Be2 g6 9.O-O Bg7 10.c4 (113.343) 95
12.01 0:02 +0.26 6...h5 7.h4 Nb6 8.Be2 g6 9.O-O Bg7 10.c4 Qc7 11.b3 (245.911) 97
13.01 0:03 +0.26 6...h5 7.h4 Nb6 8.Be2 g6 9.O-O Bg7 10.c4 (350.155) 96
14.01 0:05 +0.26 6...h5 7.h4 Nb6 8.Be2 g6 9.O-O Bg7 10.c4 (518.417) 99
15.01 0:12 +0.27 6...h5 7.h4 g6 8.Bd3 Nb6 9.a4 Bg4 10.a5 Nbd5 11.O-O Bg7 12.Bd2 O-O 13.Qe2 (1.267.782) 102
16.01 1:02 +0.42 6...h5 7.h4 g6 8.Bd3 Nb6 9.a4 Bg4 10.a5 Nbd5 11.O-O Bg7 12.Bd2 O-O 13.Qe2 Qd6 14.a6 b5 (6.031.752) 99
16.02 1:54 +0.20 6...g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.O-O O-O 9.Qe2 Re8 10.Re1 Qb6 11.a4 c5 12.a5 Qc7 13.c3 cxd4 (12.098.193) 108
17.01 2:14 +0.20 6...g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.O-O O-O 9.Qe2 Re8 10.Re1 Qb6 11.a4 c5 12.a5 Qc7 13.c3 cxd4 (14.137.686) 107
18.01 3:32 +0.25 6...g6 7.Bd3 Bg7 8.O-O O-O 9.Qe2 Re8 10.Re1 e5 11.dxe5 Ng4 12.Bg5 Qb6 13.Ne4 Ndxe5 14.Nxe5 Nxe5 (22.394.310) 107
19.01 5:12 +0.25 6...g6 7.h3 Bg7 8.Bc4 O-O 9.O-O b5 10.Bd3 Nb6 11.Qe2 Be6 12.b3 Nbd5 13.Bd2 Qd6 14.Ne5 c5 (32.926.001) 107
20.01 24:06 +0.25 6...g6 7.Bc4 Bg7 8.O-O O-O 9.Re1 Nb6 10.Bb3 a5 11.a4 Nbd5 12.Qd3 Qc7 13.Bd2 b6 (157.278.188) 111
best move: g7-g6 time: 30:00.718 min n/s: 108.608 nodes: 190.985.058
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Nf3 Ngf6 6. Ng3 g6
I'll save the hash so that higher depth is reached faster, you're free to start DPA at the point you stopped it.
> Do you name the file the name of the game?
The name doesn't matter, it can be anything. I named mine "GAME" (because it's the first time I use this feature.)
- Persistent hash would be good for DPA if it worked correctly without assistance. Its not clear that it will help in the current implementation (you may get stuck somewhere and waste all of your time on one position). There is also interaction between being in multi-pv mode and storing/retrieving from PH.
- In some implementations of DPA, storing the moves in a book file will guarantee their inclusion on the list of considered alternatives.
> Are moves saved and read from PH while MultiPV is enabled?
Yes. So if you have MultiPV=5, 5 moves are stored/read to/from the P.hash. MultiPV avoids Persistent Hash bugs like wrong move ordering and shows an exact score for fail lows and fail highs faster, and switching between MultiPV lines helps with backward propagation of moves' scores.
Persistent Hash off because of known bugs
Save Hash used after each move and restored after opponent's move
Preserve Analysis off
Persistent Hash on
Save Hash not used
Preserve Analysis off
Other open issues include DPA branching and cutoff values.
Or we can go without storing anything, the overall game level would be lower but the point will be the same, DPA is going to be very selective so that if the best move requires high depth to see, DPA is going to prune it while IA will not, and as this happens both offensively (DPA misses playing the best move) or defensively (DPA doesn't examines at all what IA is going to actually play) the playing strength degrades with each move and DPA would get squashed. I don't think maximizing your strength would change these fundamental issues (running DPA at fast hardware is akin to running IA at slow hardware) specially since then I would be saving and loading the hash to compensate.
You still have to find some optimal settings for this experiment, but you would need to talk with someone that uses DPA effectively with a similar hardware and conditions, it's not trivial (the match is still interesting because this is all still theory, I don't see how DPA could come with a better move than a full hash loaded IA, but it could happen).
time = 1800 sec
plus root = 1800 sec
branching 1st = 3; 2nd = 2; 3rd = 2; 4th = 1.
Branching = both
length of variation = 20
1/100 pawn = 80
cut bad lines = checked
multiple engines = unchecked
If you are using the CB GUI, they should be something like this:
Total Time: Selected
Total Time: 30 min
Length of variations: 8
Evaluation window: 40
This is too strong a statement. Remember that DPA forces multiple moves near the root, so that suboptimal moves are examined if they are in the top N moves at a lower depth. Some moves will be missed by DPA because they have a major shift in evaluation beyond the DPA depth horizon, but other moves that are closer in score at lower depth may end up being selected by DPA.
I think the result will be that DPA may outperform IA in quiet positions, but may miss deep tactical shots featuring "surprising moves" (both offensive and defensive as you've pointed out). In this case a surprising move would be one which goes from not being one of the top N moves to the top move at a high depth.
> but may miss deep tactical shots featuring "surprising moves" (both offensive and defensive as you've pointed out).
I think one of those is enough to make the game decisive, we will see.
Anyway, still waiting for TC's move, I refuse to play against something that looks like MultiPV=3, I need to see the notation (because TC's move should be from the line of the notation that scored best.).
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