Poll
Who would have won (Closed)
| RJ Fischer | 37 | 74% | |
| A. Karpov | 13 | 26% |
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
We'll all get to prove in on the board soon enough.
You missed the key sentence:
That summarizes this whole thread. This fellow ought to have his own television show. 300,000 euros per episode to start. Leading to a movie deal.
> Chess does not matter, only fame.
That summarizes this whole thread. This fellow ought to have his own television show. 300,000 euros per episode to start. Leading to a movie deal.
![[es]](/mwf/v12/flags/es.png "Spain")
Yes,I reach here trying to overtake best players on the world to me, looking for fame.But almost nobody knows you out there in human Chess Community.If I would be able to get it,then I could having some payment for my work.I am a Chess worker and artist,Chess is not a play or hobby to me.I would work in chess for no too much money,but if anyone would be wanting my entire work... how much do you think should be the price for many years of artistic work,being the best on earth.I would only ask for this money after proving being best.
How many money would you ask for your databases?,and how many time have you worked out to collect,select the games and so on?
What would be your price if you were best on earth?
Yes,I like money,I am not only an artist.
How many money would you ask for your databases?,and how many time have you worked out to collect,select the games and so on?
What would be your price if you were best on earth?
Yes,I like money,I am not only an artist.
I probably won't ask anything for my database. But that is some time away yet.
Then I apply your assistance with databases up to date if you are so kind.Anyway I think everyone must be paid for his work.Jesus himself said than even the God workers deserve his payment.If you provide me with a good work I will pay you 7% of any earn in Chess by me, if you prefer I could give this money to Dalai Lama or to any human benefit.I think working for free is against the workers.Pleased to meet you again Mister Nelson
7% you say? Impressive.
well,if you find a buyer of my work at the very cheap price of 300 K,I would consider 40%.I already have up to date databases in correspondence chess,freestyle,ICC,etcetera.And many people offer links to databases for free,as you know.Many people working for free is against the workers.
Fortunately I am a deep analist, and nobody do this work for free,and they usually are no great analist.I work many hours each day,and I analize by myself.I am not following databases trends or IDeA solutions,I think I am the most "human" of freestylers.But if you beat me I would pay 60%.
I think my work is very over 300 K worth,but nobody know it.I actually suposse I will work for free the rest of my life.My english is quite poor,but I have understood you was saying you would offer your databases for free.I suposse you was jocking.
Anyway if you give me this work for next Tournament,I would give you 100 % the money of first Prize(even if I am only second or fourth again).
Fortunately I am a deep analist, and nobody do this work for free,and they usually are no great analist.I work many hours each day,and I analize by myself.I am not following databases trends or IDeA solutions,I think I am the most "human" of freestylers.But if you beat me I would pay 60%.
I think my work is very over 300 K worth,but nobody know it.I actually suposse I will work for free the rest of my life.My english is quite poor,but I have understood you was saying you would offer your databases for free.I suposse you was jocking.
Anyway if you give me this work for next Tournament,I would give you 100 % the money of first Prize(even if I am only second or fourth again).
Alan, I am waiting for your comic relief punch line.
There is nothing sadder than listening to someone who hasn't come to the basic realization that their is no money in chess. The number of people making a good living from chess is probably less than 100. No sane person would try to get into this business.
The idea of selling a database for 300K Euros (~$425K) is even more bizarre. I am not even sure if Gary Kasparov could get this amount for his preparation materials. If this person were a friend of mine, I would set up an intervention...
The idea of selling a database for 300K Euros (~$425K) is even more bizarre. I am not even sure if Gary Kasparov could get this amount for his preparation materials. If this person were a friend of mine, I would set up an intervention...
I think he is trying to emulate his idol Fischer by making eccentric claims and asking for absurd amounts of money.
I have not any hurry.I have no get qualified where?,I suppose you are thinking about other player.In my Tournament in infinitechess I qualified half a point under the winner.In mundialchess I qualified third,under Railich and the cluster.
I am no the best of the best at all,only my openings analisis are like this.How do we know howa work is better?, only by deep analisis.
The reason for no getting top tournaments is that there is not any top freestyle tournament nowadays,I have played last top tournament,being qualifyed for the next to be.Then dissapear.
Anyway,don't believe in me,but Kasparov.Maybe you heard about him.He wrote how in the first freestyle tournaments,where many GM's took part,the winners at the end were freestylers,and GM's standing at last positions.
They are very few people playing freestyle,is true,but I am certain they are the best.On F1 competition,where is Fernando Alonso.They are under 30 challengers.So you can think they should be no great drivers,and anyone able to beat them.
You can go to Maranello and ask for a place in Ferrari Team as driver.
Or you can play freestyle, and trying no being the last one.
I am no the best of the best at all,only my openings analisis are like this.How do we know howa work is better?, only by deep analisis.
The reason for no getting top tournaments is that there is not any top freestyle tournament nowadays,I have played last top tournament,being qualifyed for the next to be.Then dissapear.
Anyway,don't believe in me,but Kasparov.Maybe you heard about him.He wrote how in the first freestyle tournaments,where many GM's took part,the winners at the end were freestylers,and GM's standing at last positions.
They are very few people playing freestyle,is true,but I am certain they are the best.On F1 competition,where is Fernando Alonso.They are under 30 challengers.So you can think they should be no great drivers,and anyone able to beat them.
You can go to Maranello and ask for a place in Ferrari Team as driver.
Or you can play freestyle, and trying no being the last one.
I have not any hurry.I have no get qualified where?,I suppose you are thinking about other player.In my Tournament in infinitechess I qualified half a point under the winner.In mundialchess I qualified third,under Railich and the cluster.
Let's disregard the fact that your claim to fame is based on a second and third place finish in a community of about 200 people. Of all the forums for showing off chess skills, freestyle is the worst. Why? Many reasons:
1) Only a few hundred people have competed. This is a tiny, tiny percentage of the chess playing community.
2) Many non-chess skills come into play. Examples would include how good someone is at operating a computer in a real-time environment. Anson is great at this, and maybe you are too, but it isn't really important to most GMs. Other factors that are important include understanding engine limitations when selecting moves.
3) Many chess related skills in freestyle are not transferable to OTB play. As an example, almost all of the top freestyle players have access to huge opening databases. This doesn't really help an elite GM very much, because he can't be expected to remember even a small percentage of this information.
I am no the best of the best at all,only my openings analisis are like this.How do we know howa work is better?, only by deep analisis.
I disagree. We know work is better when it is accepted as such by the community. Self recognition doesn't cut it.
The reason for no getting top tournaments is that there is not any top freestyle tournament nowadays,I have played last top tournament,being qualifyed for the next to be.Then dissapear.
The reason that there are very few freestyle tournaments is that these tournaments are a financial disaster. Nobody has figured out how to make money off of them, or even to get good publicity from them. Enjoy them while they last (which won't be very long).
Anyway,don't believe in me,but Kasparov.Maybe you heard about him.He wrote how in the first freestyle tournaments,where many GM's took part,the winners at the end were freestylers,and GM's standing at last positions.
You don't need to be Kasparov to figure out that GMs have done poorly in freestyle tournaments. This is clearly because there are many non-chess skills required for good freestyle play. This doesn't help your claim that you are the greatest chess player of all times.
They are very few people playing freestyle,is true,but I am certain they are the best.
This is a rather silly assertion. There are millions of people in Russia, Ukraine, China, India, etc. who play chess very well but can't afford the electronics to compete in a freestyle tournament. Why are you convinced that they all suck? Millions of other good chess players have never heard of freestyle. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the few hundred people that are participating in these tournaments are the cream of the crop.
On F1 competition,where is Fernando Alonso.They are under 30 challengers.So you can think they should be no great drivers,and anyone able to beat them.
There is a feeder system for auto racing with hundreds of thousands of people participating at many levels. Only the best can qualify for the top level. If there were only 200 people competing for these slots, and nobody else had even heard about them, it would be a different story.
You can go to Maranello and ask for a place in Ferrari Team as driver.
Asking to compete at the top level without qualifying is your modus operandi, not mine, but I have been known to wrap rally cars around trees...
Or you can play freestyle, and trying no being the last one.
I was the person that lost to Eros in the last round, after being convinced that 15...a5??? was a must-play move (by a guy with hardware 100 times faster than mine). So I am now one win and one loss against the prince of darkness in freestyle competition. I should have the advantage next time though, because it is his turn to take advice from Suj...
Let's disregard the fact that your claim to fame is based on a second and third place finish in a community of about 200 people. Of all the forums for showing off chess skills, freestyle is the worst. Why? Many reasons:
1) Only a few hundred people have competed. This is a tiny, tiny percentage of the chess playing community.
2) Many non-chess skills come into play. Examples would include how good someone is at operating a computer in a real-time environment. Anson is great at this, and maybe you are too, but it isn't really important to most GMs. Other factors that are important include understanding engine limitations when selecting moves.
3) Many chess related skills in freestyle are not transferable to OTB play. As an example, almost all of the top freestyle players have access to huge opening databases. This doesn't really help an elite GM very much, because he can't be expected to remember even a small percentage of this information.
I am no the best of the best at all,only my openings analisis are like this.How do we know howa work is better?, only by deep analisis.
I disagree. We know work is better when it is accepted as such by the community. Self recognition doesn't cut it.
The reason for no getting top tournaments is that there is not any top freestyle tournament nowadays,I have played last top tournament,being qualifyed for the next to be.Then dissapear.
The reason that there are very few freestyle tournaments is that these tournaments are a financial disaster. Nobody has figured out how to make money off of them, or even to get good publicity from them. Enjoy them while they last (which won't be very long).
Anyway,don't believe in me,but Kasparov.Maybe you heard about him.He wrote how in the first freestyle tournaments,where many GM's took part,the winners at the end were freestylers,and GM's standing at last positions.
You don't need to be Kasparov to figure out that GMs have done poorly in freestyle tournaments. This is clearly because there are many non-chess skills required for good freestyle play. This doesn't help your claim that you are the greatest chess player of all times.
They are very few people playing freestyle,is true,but I am certain they are the best.
This is a rather silly assertion. There are millions of people in Russia, Ukraine, China, India, etc. who play chess very well but can't afford the electronics to compete in a freestyle tournament. Why are you convinced that they all suck? Millions of other good chess players have never heard of freestyle. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the few hundred people that are participating in these tournaments are the cream of the crop.
On F1 competition,where is Fernando Alonso.They are under 30 challengers.So you can think they should be no great drivers,and anyone able to beat them.
There is a feeder system for auto racing with hundreds of thousands of people participating at many levels. Only the best can qualify for the top level. If there were only 200 people competing for these slots, and nobody else had even heard about them, it would be a different story.
You can go to Maranello and ask for a place in Ferrari Team as driver.
Asking to compete at the top level without qualifying is your modus operandi, not mine, but I have been known to wrap rally cars around trees...
Or you can play freestyle, and trying no being the last one.
I was the person that lost to Eros in the last round, after being convinced that 15...a5??? was a must-play move (by a guy with hardware 100 times faster than mine). So I am now one win and one loss against the prince of darkness in freestyle competition. I should have the advantage next time though, because it is his turn to take advice from Suj...
So, Suj was the spectator who gave you that famous advice! It's nice to finally put names (or nicks) to such memorable entities.
In regards to your undermining of freestyle skills, it sure looks like the only thing going for chess skills over those needed to succeed at freestyle is recognition. But recognition isn't always deserved. Look at professional poker; would you say it's more demanding than chess? More beautiful? More artistic? More complex? What is there that makes poker much more profitable? Is it something intrinsic? Do chess grandmaster who migrate to that game need even a fraction of the preparation which was required to obtain their chess titles?
Chess, freestyle, poker, StarCraft... there are many games with various degrees of acceptance and money involved. Freestyle would probably be at the bottom, but mostly because it's deceiving. It looks to the untrained eye like the human does little, much less than the driver of a F1 car does, and thus people overlook our game. I've played many times on-line and encountered many kibitzers who inquired about the nature of our enjoyment. Chess players are used to one thing only, human chess, and they disregard the human-machine combination; sure, machines play better, but precisely because of that the human part is irrelevant. At best, we catch their attention because of our freakish set-up. In that respect, I remember the players who came to see our games at Benidorm and, let's be honest, they only paid attention to the dynamic duo (the two kids who were tolerated to cooperate), to Anson for his speed with the mouse and his lack of touch with the chess pieces, to Jose because of his mad scientist look and to Fenollar because of his rating. Not a single watcher was really interested or knew anything about us. What the heck, most participants didn't really have a clue.
The funny thing about all this is that the real freak show is human chess. Is like saying that the Nobel price in mathematics should be under-promoted, while those guys who resemble human calculators should be top dog instead of attending entertainment shows. The real situation is that after the invention of computers and the popularization of calculators, those number-crunching jobs quickly disappeared. I wonder how long it will take for human GM's to be out of job too.
In regards to your undermining of freestyle skills, it sure looks like the only thing going for chess skills over those needed to succeed at freestyle is recognition. But recognition isn't always deserved. Look at professional poker; would you say it's more demanding than chess? More beautiful? More artistic? More complex? What is there that makes poker much more profitable? Is it something intrinsic? Do chess grandmaster who migrate to that game need even a fraction of the preparation which was required to obtain their chess titles?
Chess, freestyle, poker, StarCraft... there are many games with various degrees of acceptance and money involved. Freestyle would probably be at the bottom, but mostly because it's deceiving. It looks to the untrained eye like the human does little, much less than the driver of a F1 car does, and thus people overlook our game. I've played many times on-line and encountered many kibitzers who inquired about the nature of our enjoyment. Chess players are used to one thing only, human chess, and they disregard the human-machine combination; sure, machines play better, but precisely because of that the human part is irrelevant. At best, we catch their attention because of our freakish set-up. In that respect, I remember the players who came to see our games at Benidorm and, let's be honest, they only paid attention to the dynamic duo (the two kids who were tolerated to cooperate), to Anson for his speed with the mouse and his lack of touch with the chess pieces, to Jose because of his mad scientist look and to Fenollar because of his rating. Not a single watcher was really interested or knew anything about us. What the heck, most participants didn't really have a clue.
The funny thing about all this is that the real freak show is human chess. Is like saying that the Nobel price in mathematics should be under-promoted, while those guys who resemble human calculators should be top dog instead of attending entertainment shows. The real situation is that after the invention of computers and the popularization of calculators, those number-crunching jobs quickly disappeared. I wonder how long it will take for human GM's to be out of job too.
So, Suj was the spectator who gave you that famous advice! It's nice to finally put names (or nicks) to such memorable entities.
Suj provided the advice, but I was the one who took it, despite having been down that line thousands of times. Talk about lack of intestinal fortitude. I played that tournament solo with a couple of old quads (a q6600 and a penryn) and was fine until I decided I needed to get additional input against Eros. I have no idea what help Eros was getting. I think his equipment is not that different than mine, but I suspect he was being assisted by his nefarious henchman (Alberto and Rodo) with faster equipment. Please note, I'm not complaining about hardware differences. My wife has much more expensive computer hardware than I do, and she does nothing more than send emails...
But recognition isn't always deserved.
Very true, but recognition is frequently all that we have to go on. Bad as it is, it's infinitely better than basing opinions on self-promotion.
Mass appeal of an event requires a number of factors:
1) Must be exciting (Poker - yes, Classic TC chess - no).
2) Having money flying around is a big plus (Poker - yes, Chess - no).
3) Having the ability for people to follow the game in only a few minutes is a plus (Poker - yes, Chess - no).
4) Having the possibility of an amateur winning is a plus (Poker - yes, Chess - no).
5) Making it possible for a sponsor to profit is a plus (Poker - yes, Chess - not likely).
I agree that OTB chess has real problems. Luckily, it received a major boost from large, rapidly rising countries (China and India), and this should keep things going for another generation.
I wish I had been able to take the time to go to Benidorm. It would have been a lot of fun to compete, or even just to watch. But as you say, there's no way that typical spectator can really understand what is happening (much less so than if he/she showed up for the WSOP).
Suj provided the advice, but I was the one who took it, despite having been down that line thousands of times. Talk about lack of intestinal fortitude. I played that tournament solo with a couple of old quads (a q6600 and a penryn) and was fine until I decided I needed to get additional input against Eros. I have no idea what help Eros was getting. I think his equipment is not that different than mine, but I suspect he was being assisted by his nefarious henchman (Alberto and Rodo) with faster equipment. Please note, I'm not complaining about hardware differences. My wife has much more expensive computer hardware than I do, and she does nothing more than send emails...
But recognition isn't always deserved.
Very true, but recognition is frequently all that we have to go on. Bad as it is, it's infinitely better than basing opinions on self-promotion.
Mass appeal of an event requires a number of factors:
1) Must be exciting (Poker - yes, Classic TC chess - no).
2) Having money flying around is a big plus (Poker - yes, Chess - no).
3) Having the ability for people to follow the game in only a few minutes is a plus (Poker - yes, Chess - no).
4) Having the possibility of an amateur winning is a plus (Poker - yes, Chess - no).
5) Making it possible for a sponsor to profit is a plus (Poker - yes, Chess - not likely).
I agree that OTB chess has real problems. Luckily, it received a major boost from large, rapidly rising countries (China and India), and this should keep things going for another generation.
I wish I had been able to take the time to go to Benidorm. It would have been a lot of fun to compete, or even just to watch. But as you say, there's no way that typical spectator can really understand what is happening (much less so than if he/she showed up for the WSOP).
![[no]](/mwf/v12/flags/no.png "Norway")
Slightly off-topic, but there's no Nobel prize in mathematics. Alfred sadly didn't care for it.
![[in]](/mwf/v12/flags/in.png "India")
Even for theoretical physics, nobel is not there. You have to apply your concepts towards a useful invention for the good of humanity to win it. However, there is an equivalent prize in mathematics.
Slightly off topic? That must surely be a joke. 3/4 of this thread is off topic. Topic is "RJ Fischer A. Karpov 1975 unplayed match" in case you forgot 
![[mx]](/mwf/v12/flags/mx.png "Mexico")
And, wow! This thread is going two years old next month!
It was also dead for almost two years before Shunzu started praising Fischer, and more importantly - praising himself.
This thread should be split off. Most of the recent remarks have nothing to do with Fischer-Karpov, moderators.
I propose naming this split "Anand vs. Shunzu 2011 unplayed match"
And a poll of course.
And a poll of course.
No at all!!.My only challenger is Riccio.This could be Shunzu versus Mankind (You).I win, so I am the best.So I am authorized voice to say No one like Fischer.This is the Topic.It could be Shunzu versus Mankind, but you mankinders are too feeble and weak,plenty of fear.Is'nt it?.
1.e4!! (Shunzu) Mankinders to play and lose.If you prefer I win as black (1...c5!?)
Anybody out there?
1.e4!! (Shunzu) Mankinders to play and lose.If you prefer I win as black (1...c5!?)
Anybody out there?
I play chess.I have hundreds of friends being chessplayer.Even the worst players have Chessbase,houdini,idea,firebird.....all of them having modern databases.
Here in Spain the very young players are paying for lessons from MI's and GM's,All of them having good hardware and software,they play in web sites as ICC,buho 21,etc,etc(many of them playing with computer assistance).All of them are potential freestylers.If someone reach to get the upper analisis,and not being a top player then he will consider freestyle or correspondence chess.Many GM's are writting opening books and articles in NIC,Sahovski informator and other publications.
I don't believe so many people having true opportunities to reach F1 at so low cost.Mainly in India,Cameroon and other countries as you say.
Do you really think opening only interest to 200 freestylers?.Opening is essential for every player,and PAL freestyle has been the World Championship in openings, over correspondence Chess.I get to this conclussion early as analist,as they were playing opening at a much higher level.
Anyway you can follow depreciating the sport,art or science you practice.But I suppose you can't be a happy man thinking like this.Most of people in chess don't only think like you than freestylers do nothing but operate computers.They think any GM could win easyly all the games to Riccio if playing also with a computer(and I don't find you there defending freestylers merit).But you are dissapointed if me saying the truth.
Otherwise I only claim being better for the benefit and prestige of all the freestyle community,for calling attention.I am the worst player on earth if this make you happier.
But I can say you a thing.Most of freestylers are only copycats,but the best ones are incredible,being creators of his opening play,and his work being the best.This is nothing if this make you happy.Happiness is very important.I always was wrong, and I prefer truth over happiness.
I really hope you being happy.
Here in Spain the very young players are paying for lessons from MI's and GM's,All of them having good hardware and software,they play in web sites as ICC,buho 21,etc,etc(many of them playing with computer assistance).All of them are potential freestylers.If someone reach to get the upper analisis,and not being a top player then he will consider freestyle or correspondence chess.Many GM's are writting opening books and articles in NIC,Sahovski informator and other publications.
I don't believe so many people having true opportunities to reach F1 at so low cost.Mainly in India,Cameroon and other countries as you say.
Do you really think opening only interest to 200 freestylers?.Opening is essential for every player,and PAL freestyle has been the World Championship in openings, over correspondence Chess.I get to this conclussion early as analist,as they were playing opening at a much higher level.
Anyway you can follow depreciating the sport,art or science you practice.But I suppose you can't be a happy man thinking like this.Most of people in chess don't only think like you than freestylers do nothing but operate computers.They think any GM could win easyly all the games to Riccio if playing also with a computer(and I don't find you there defending freestylers merit).But you are dissapointed if me saying the truth.
Otherwise I only claim being better for the benefit and prestige of all the freestyle community,for calling attention.I am the worst player on earth if this make you happier.
But I can say you a thing.Most of freestylers are only copycats,but the best ones are incredible,being creators of his opening play,and his work being the best.This is nothing if this make you happy.Happiness is very important.I always was wrong, and I prefer truth over happiness.
I really hope you being happy.
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