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- - By JhorAVi (***) [ph] Date 2009-05-28 18:24
Please somebody help me with this.

I want to set an engine match between two separate computers connected though Local Area Network both with Fritz 11 interface.
My OS on two machines are WinXP32 and WinXP64 where LAN is already configured, enabled and working properly.

I already followed the help instructions in Fritz as follows:

>Autoplayer via network
>It is possible to play two computers against each other using a network connection. For this you require Windows NT, Windows 2000 or higher. In the Auto232 driver, enter a dot (period) as the "Server name", as shown above. It is not necessary to enter an address on the host computer, but you must enter the the IP address of the host on the slave computer.


Here's how I did it.  In the HOST I placed a dot(period) as the server name and in the GUEST computer I placed the IP adress of the host which is 192.168.2.100
A message "Wait for connection" appears for a long time on both machine and nothing happens :(   Please guys which part did I went wrong??

thanks in advance
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) [kw] Date 2009-05-28 18:40
Another way would be to try to do it via Chessnet software.  You create an IP addresss for each engine then in the Fritz GUI you load that engine and then have a normal match between the 2 engines.  Engine 1 will be in computer 1 and engine 2 will be on computer 2.
Parent - - By JhorAVi (***) [ph] Date 2009-05-28 18:59

> Another way would be to try to do it via Chessnet software.


Thanks for the quick response. But where can I find that Chessnet software?
Parent - - By JhorAVi (***) [ph] Date 2009-05-28 21:09
Thank you. But what about without chessnet? Do you mean the standard "two computer match" in Fritz 11 doesn't work at all?
Parent - - By M ANSARI (*****) [kw] Date 2009-05-28 21:44
The point is to try to get the two computers to play with ponder on and to test engines on different hardware platforms.  That is where chessnet software is useful.  I know that you can do a match using auto 32 but you need some serial port or something like that.  Also with chessnet software you can do a tourney with several computers and not only 2.
Parent - By JhorAVi (***) [ph] Date 2009-05-29 04:59

> I know that you can do a match using auto 32 but you need some serial port or something like that.


Yes there is a serial port method But Fritz Help also provided instructions for the LAN method instead of serial port. I'm just confused why I can't make it work. The help didn't mention a chessnet requirement.

regards
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2011-08-17 09:50
Hi,
Has there been any update on this?

Or is there a better GUI than Fritz which can manage 2 computer matches with ponder on?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-08-17 11:12
Have you tried Shredder Classic and its Autoplayer (232)?
Parent - - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2011-08-17 11:30
does that require a null modem? I'm looking for something which works over a modern LAN
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-17 13:14
Chessbase no longer supports the Computer vs Computer feature on Deep Fritz 12.  I emailed Chessbase customer support and as usual all they do is whine about how incompetant there programmers are and how difficult and expensive it is to keep supporting features.  I asked why are we buying software with less features than previous versions and basically I told "too bad, we'll do what we want".  I was a little impatient with their arrogant response and they got incredibly rude.  Chessbase does not feel that they need to listen to their customers.
Parent - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2011-08-17 14:22
That's DREADFUL. oh well my hunt for a decent GUI goes on. Does Aquarium have any 2-P.C options..?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-08-18 02:50

> does that require a null modem?


Yes :sad:

Menu: Mode - Autoplayer

The Auto 232 interface allows you to play matches between two separate computers. The computers must be connected by a null modem cable, and the remote computer must be running a chess program that also supports the RS232 Autoplayer. One program is configured as a master and one as a slave. You must specify which serial port the cable is connected to. If Shredder is master you can specify the number of games to play and the time-out (Game is stopped if no move is made in time-out time).
Parent - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 14:37
Autoplayer 232 is no longer supported on Fritz gui.  It used to show up with the DGT device connection.  Now it is gone completely.
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-17 22:33
Another option maybe is to use Aquarium 2011 and their remote engine facility which you can use for engine matches  http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=19599 I use a laptop for the GUI and a computer for each engine.
also there is this option http://www.chessific.com/ which can be used for engine matches and also on playchess and other sites.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-18 00:41
Chessfic is not a LAN server-client product.  So it is useless for Computer vs Computer matches.  I'm not interested in paying for an internet service.
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-18 05:40
Chessific does work on a lan,  I use it in this way.
Parent - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 14:22
I've been to their website and they want to sell a WAN internet service for analysis, or so it seems.  I've asked them for clarity.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 15:43
I just contacted Chessic and this is what I asked:

"I'm not exactly sure just what your software does.  So here is what I would like it to do.  I have several computers all running different chess gui's.  Rybka, Deep Fritz, Shredder, etc.  I would like software that would allow me to connect all of my computers together and run Computer vs Computer tournamnets on my network, LAN.  NO INTERNET AT ALL.  Is this what your product does?"

"Dear RAV,
I'm afraid Chessific won't help you there.  Chessific is used to connect from a UI to an engine running on another server - it allows you to utilize a poweful server running elsewhere for analysis.

Thanks,
Ashwin"
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-21 18:51
Well I do use it for engine matches between my home computers and it does work on a home network and also I can connect to playchess on my laptop and load an engine from any of my computers and play engine games on playchess.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 20:33
The server is doing the work.  The client merely provides the engine.  The client or remote is not running the engine.
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-21 23:27 Edited 2011-08-21 23:37
Server Installation

    Unzip chessific-server.zip to the server/high-end machine/Home Computer (this is where I install).

    Add UCI engines (executable files) to the 'engines' folder.

    Run configure-server.exe, enter your authentication key and select an engine to run. Save and exit.

    Run chessific-server.exe, you are now ready to connect to the server/Home Computer using the client.

Client Installation on a different computer to the above

    Unzip chessific-client.zip to your laptop or desktop.

    Run configure-client.exe and enter your authentication key. Save and exit.

    Ensure that chessific-server.exe has already been started.

    In Chessbase 9 or other Universal Chess Interface (UCI) compliant software add chessific-client.exe as the engine.

    Setup is done. Start analyzing! or you can use it like any other engine, play a game against it, use it on playchess and use it in engine tournaments.

Chessific, however, does not use your system's processors for any analysis/Engine play and they can be used for other work. Which means that your laptop/ desktop processing power has no bearing on quality of analysis/Engine play - you get the same level of analysis irrespective of what system you use to connect to the server/Home Computer.

The text in bold is how I use it even though it does not say this on their web site.

I assure you it works, I use it.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-22 16:16
I think that we are talking about too different things.  I and others here want to play a Computer and a GUI (with Engine) against another Computer and a GUI (with Engine) in game or match play. The folks at Chessic were pretty specific that their software could not do that.

An engine can not play without a GUI.  So what we've been talking about is a Server that can control the GUI and engine on another computer to allow it to play a third computer.  Or Computer vs Computer game play.  NOT analysis.

I don't want to analyse with it, I don't want to play against it and I don't want to play on the internet with it, I don't want to analys on the internet with it.  I want to play "Computer A" running Deep Fritz 12 against "Computer B" running Deep Rybka 4.1.  That's all.  Chessbase used to support this, not anymore.  So the question has been does Aquarium support this?
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-22 16:19

> An engine can not play without a GUI. 


Of course it can, any UCI can play without a GUI.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-22 17:04
I am not talking about a remote engine please.  You can not run a UCI without a GUI.  How do you even start it.  No GUI no game.

We are talking about 2 computers playing each other without sharing resources or engines.
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) [us] Date 2011-08-22 17:09

> I am not talking about a remote engine please.  You can not run a UCI without a GUI.  How do you even start it.  No GUI no game.
>


of course you can, try a dos window for instance. You can run remote engines and send and recieve moves from them.  Do it in idea all the time...:cool::smile:
Parent - By Fulcrum2000 (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-22 17:37

> I am not talking about a remote engine please.  You can not run a UCI without a GUI.  How do you even start it.  No GUI no game.


Open a Command Prompt, start your program and type UCI. You can do everyting there a GUI can.

> We are talking about 2 computers playing each other without sharing resources or engines.


We too...
Did you ever look at netchess?. It does what you want http://home.arcor.de/bernhard.wallner/netChess.html
Parent - By h.g.muller (****) [nl] Date 2011-08-22 20:35
I am sorry I have to say this, but from all the nonsense you are claiming it shows that you have about zero knowledge, and yet are extremely pig-headed in denying the good advice many people give you her. You don't know what a client is. You don't know what a server is. You don't know what an engine does. You don't know what "remote" means...

UCI engines can play without GUIs. They can also play with a GUI, and in that case the GUI can be on the same or on a different computer. If they are on a different computer the engine-GUI communication, that goes through a pipe when you play locally, simply goes over the LAN. Neither the engine nor the GUI have to be aware of this. Because at the GUI end you use an entity (a client, because it takes the initiative to make the connection) to which the GUI can connect through to a pipe, (thinking it is an engine), and which forwards the stuff that comes in through the pipe over the LAN, and forwards the stuff it gets back over the LAN through the pipe to the GUI. At the other computer there is an entity that does the reverse (a server), and connects through a pipe to the engine (the engine not knowing any better than that the server entity is a GUI).

Look at it this way: when you make a transatlantic call, you don't have to know whether your telephone is really connected with a copper wire to the one of the person you are speaking with. It can be converted to light flashes in a glass fiber and back, by exchages on either side of the Atlantic, or beamed up to a sattelite, and back down at the other side. Neither of that means that the person you are speaking with is now at the same side of the Atlantic...
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-18 00:43
The Aquarium software also doesn't support Computer vs Computer.  This is not remote engine but rather the ability to play one computer against another on a LAN.
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2011-08-18 05:16

>The Aquarium software also doesn't support Computer vs Computer. This is not remote engine but rather the ability to play one computer against another on a LAN.


Yes, it does. That's exactly what you're doing when you setup a Remote UCI engine and play that engine against a local engine. The remote engine plays the local engine i.e. two computers playing against each other over the LAN/WAN.

Aquarium rocks.
Parent - By Chaotic Chess (****) Date 2011-08-18 09:21
Good idea Moz! :cool: I will also try it.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 14:17 Edited 2011-08-21 14:44
Does it work with another GUI?  Is the engine running on the client or on the server?  Does it work with Chessbase gui's?  I am hesitant about throwing more money at a product only to have it not do what I want.  I have Chessbase engines going back to Fritz 5.32 through Deep Fritz 12and Deep Rybka 4.1, along with Shredder, Chess Tiger, Hiarcs, Rybka, etc.  I'd like to connect these different computers on my network and have them play as clients with some sort of Chess Tournament Server software, very much like Chessbase's Playchess Engine Room but NOT on the internet, but rather on my network.  Since Chessbase no longer supports Autoplayer 232 or Computer vs Computer there is no reason to keep purchasing Chessbase.
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2011-08-21 15:40

> Does it work with another GUI?   Does it work with Chessbase gui's?


No, because all other GUIs are inferior to Aquarium.

>Is the engine running on the client or on the server?


The local engine runs within the Aquarium UI where you can watch and store the game but the remote engine is running on another computer using the RTHomeServer. The server application has no chess UI, it's a just simple app that loads the engine and sends/receives UCI commands over the network.  You can use the RTHomeServer to play games, run remote IA sessions or network dozens of computers across the LAN/WAN in a monster IDeA session.

Aquarium is cheap. And it will do what you want.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 20:13
How can the engine "run" on the client or remote computer without running in a gui  If the remote engine is running on the server then that defeats the whole purpose of running a seperate computer.
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2011-08-21 22:17 Edited 2011-08-21 23:25

> How can the engine "run" on the client or remote computer without running in a gui  If the remote engine is running on the server then that defeats the whole purpose of running a seperate computer.


The RTHomeServer loads and runs the engine on the remote computer. There's no GUI required on the remote computer because there's no need to display the same game in two different GUIs! The game is played out on the computer running the local engine by sending UCI commands back and forth from the local computer to the remote computer. You don't need a GUI on the remote computer, you just need the computer to run the remote engine (which is what the RTHomeServer is doing).

The end result is the same -- you have 2 computers playing each other over the LAN. Forget about the crappy Chessbase Auto232 method. You can view the game and save it as needed on the main computer (the one running the Aquarium GUI.)

Trust me, it works. I have hundreds of engine games that I've played using 2 different i5 750 PCs with this very method.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-22 16:20
No it's not.  The engine HAS to run on the client computer, that means the GUI has to run on the client computer..  The whole point is the computer can think while waiting for a move.  Some call it pondering.  If the server runs the engine then CPU resources are split between 2 engines.  "Computer A" cpu runs GUI and Engine A and "Computer B" cpu runs GUI and Engine B.  NO SHARED RESOURCES.
Parent - By Carl Bicknell (*****) [gb] Date 2011-08-22 19:15
rav - you're missing the point.

Aquarium can handle TWO computers playing each other over a LAN. It's simple. One engine plays on one machine with the aquarium GUI. Let's pretend this computer lives in your lounge.

The other engine is on ANOTHER computer (NOT the same computer) and it is controlled by a small piece of software called RTHome Sever. Let's pretend this computer lives in your bedroom.

Provided you have a LAN the computer in your lounge will display the two engines fighting each other within the Aquarium GUI. But they will NOT be sharing resources, each one will be using their own computer.

That means ponder etc will work fine.
Parent - - By Erudito (**) [ca] Date 2011-08-22 07:57
You can use Fritz 11 in a LAN to play engine vs engine in 2 separate PCs. If this is your goal. It can be done. It works and I have tested in Fritz 11 GUI.
The reason why you are not able to make it work is because you are missing a specific file. This file is created for a serial port for Auto232 when you first install Fritz in your PC.
The missing file is "Auto232.dev", it is found under Program Files (x86) | Chessbase | Devices folder.
Check to see if you have the Devices folder, and you can copy and paste the Auto232.dev file into this folder.
This will enable Auto232 connection either with a serial cable or through the LAN.
The easiest way to get a copy of this file is to install Fritz 11 in a PC which has a physical serial port (COM).
Of course, most modern PCs and Laptops don't have a physical serial port, so you will need to find an old PC.
Parent - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-22 17:06
In Fritz yes.  IN FRITZ 12 NOT ANY MORE.  Chessbase no longer supports it. 
That is the whole point of every post on this thread.
Parent - By Jesse Gersenson (***) Date 2011-08-22 18:41
Computer-A has arena 3 nstalled.
Computer-B has rybka 4.1 installed.
Computer-C has stockfish installed.

Computer-A has no engines running on it.

The three computers are connected over a lan.

Computer-A runs a match between Rybka 4.1 and stockfish.

I use netchess, link given in this thread, so Computer-A can communicate details of the game to Computer-B and Computer-C.

In arema, Rybka 4.1 appears as netRybka.exe. Stockfish appears as netStockfish.exe. these exe's were made by netchess - they're little servers which connect to the actual engines on Computer-B and Computer-C.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-22 16:32
The remote engine plays on the local CPU.  Resources are shared.
Parent - By Moz (****) Date 2011-08-23 00:14

> The remote engine plays on the local CPU.  Resources are shared.


WRONG! Read what I wrote. Local computer. Remote computer. Engines run on each computer. The resources are NOT shared.  I repeat NOT shared. Your preconceived notions of how it works is interfering with your reading comprehension.

I'm tired of trying to explain this. If you don't want to believe that Aquarium can do what you want even though 3 different people with lots of Aquarium experience have told you otherwise then it's your loss.
Parent - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2011-08-18 08:25
Of course it does

And much more
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 14:36
Have you actually used this for play or are you just posting a link?
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-21 19:08
http://chessok.com/?p=23402

The Types of Analysis on Networked Computers

Remote engines can be used for any type of analysis in Aquarium:

    Infinite analysis. Any combination of local and networked engines can be used for infinite analysis. As you may remember from previous columns on Infinite Analysis with Rybka Aquarium, you can analyze simultaneously with many engines, even positions from different games. In Analysis Presets in Rybka Aquarium, I described how you can create a quickly accessible “analysis preset” that can be used for analyzing any position simultaneously with different engines and different analysis settings (normal infinite analysis, multi-variation analysis, threats, etc.). Both local and networked engines can be used in the same analysis preset.
    IDeA (Interactive Deep Analysis). The new IDeA version in Aquarium 2010 is designed with analysis on a network of computers in mind. To my knowledge, the largest number of engines that has been used simultaneously for analysis in IDeA is forty-four.
    Game Analysis and Find Blunders. The analysis engine used here can either be a local engine or a remote engine. Note that you can’t analyze multiple games simultaneously using these analysis methods, although you can automatically analyze a list of games sequentially.

Remote engines can also be used in matches and tournaments, except for Randomizer matches.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 20:14
I'm not looking for analysis or infinite analysis.  I want to play one compter gui against another computer gui on a LAN not over the internet.
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-21 20:17
I just read through this link.  http://chessok.com/?p=23402

It does NOT "PLAY" one computer against another.  It simply adds the resources for analysis. 

The discussion on this thread was Computer AGAINST Computer for match play.
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-21 23:32 Edited 2011-08-21 23:41
Read http://chessok.com/?p=23402 it mentions Remote engines can also be used in matches and tournaments, except for Randomizer matches. it also works on a Lan.

you dont need a GUI on both computers you only need one to have a GUI for Aquarium RThomeserver and Chessific
Parent - - By rav (*) [us] Date 2011-08-22 16:29
Computer vs Computer not a computer running remote engines.
Parent - - By CumnorChessClub (***) [gb] Date 2011-08-22 17:01
It is computer v computer
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Help! Two computer Match in Fritz 11 interface through LAN
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