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- - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-05-21 20:23
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-05-21 20:28
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2009-05-21 20:31
Is this a Dutch link-fest or can others join in?
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=11072
Parent - - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-05-21 20:32
Of course you may join, but linking to the same post is a bit, well, strange ;-)
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) Date 2009-05-21 20:37
You guys covered all the other current topics about him, I had nothing left! :sad:

Motivation to quit? http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=138976#138976

- Time I spend working as Java programer in Canada to earn what I get from Naum sales: 1.5 weeks
Parent - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-05-21 20:40
Possible, but this was 2 years back when Naum was not as well knows as it is today.
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2009-05-21 20:51
That was to the time of versions 2.1 and 2.2, but it doesn't look like the revenue has grown much (or not enough).

Anyway, that's a shock! Fruit (although continued somehow), Zappa, Naum. Then, AFAIK, Lance Perkins quit Thinker (although also continued by so. else)...

Who is next?!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-05-22 01:04

> Who is next?!


I hope Vempele doesn't stop working on goaT!
Parent - By apollox (***) Date 2009-05-22 13:50
It's not the end, but this situation sounds very familiar to The Baron:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rpijl/html/future.html

One of the things that has bothered Richard is that people just leech and don't leave any feedback. So every programmer has their reasons for getting disgruntled and shelving their projects. I have left emails with Richard and he has replied with a generous paragraph to every one I have sent; giving his opinions on Rybka, tournaments and so forth. I know he visits this very forum from time to time and likes the community.

He is working on something new, so I'll be watching this guy...
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) Date 2009-05-21 20:45
oooh that is really bad news. He is a nice guy.
First Zappa, now Naum... no coincidence?
Parent - By Fulcrum2000 (****) Date 2009-05-21 20:48

> no coincidence?


Possibly :
AN "I know this comes as a disappointment to some who hopped that Rybka domination can be stopped, but Vas is just too good"
Parent - - By SillyFunction (**) Date 2009-05-21 23:35
Okay, how about this.
After releasing Rybka 4 (or 5 or whatever), Vas stops developing Rybka for a while.
He turns to another million-dollar job for two years and see whether some of his rivals can beat him.
:-)

In reality, I think that a million dollar cannot buy the feeling of being number one in the world.
So Vas will continue to keep developing the #1 engine until chess is solved.
Parent - - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-05-22 05:49
He turns to another million-dollar job for two years

Perhaps Vas could build a superb piece of software doing the stock exchange completely automatically, buying and selling at the best points in the market. Or making the best stock screener in the world :-).
Parent - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) Date 2009-05-22 06:39
There are already several of these programs on the market. But most of their users now can't pay for updates anymore ;)
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-05-22 11:54
Been there, done that.
Parent - - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-05-22 02:52
It is not the end of Naum
He did not say he is going to stop working on Naum.

He only said he is going to work less time on it.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2009-05-22 03:20
Well, it's probably near the end:

> I doubt there will be a new commercial release unless I get lucky and get a big improvement with a little work.

Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2009-05-22 03:46
No

having no Naum5 does not mean the end of Naum
Even without a new release naum can continue to improve when customers of Naum4 simply get an update that is 20 elo stronger every year.

Uri
Parent - By Venator (Silver) Date 2009-05-22 05:45
It is not the end of Naum
He did not say he is going to stop working on Naum.


Therefore I put a question mark in the title :-)
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2009-05-22 05:03
Interesting - good luck to Alex. :)

Vas
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-05-22 08:32
So, what would happen if you added Alex to the Rybka team? Would that help? After all, he was able to produce an engine stronger than Rybka 2.3.2a all by himself.
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) Date 2009-05-23 06:00
If the incentive was high enough, Alex and I and some other chess programmers could probably find a way to work together. It wouldn't be easy, though, for several reasons.

Vas
Parent - - By Labyrinth (*****) Date 2009-05-23 06:13
From the sounds of it, Vas' programming style would be a nightmare for other programmers.
Parent - By Razor (****) Date 2009-05-23 06:28
Not only other programmers!  :o)
Parent - - By Jury Osipov (**) Date 2009-05-23 07:57
Vas' programming style is not so hard.
Parent - By Silvian (***) Date 2009-05-25 10:50

> Vas' programming style is not so hard.


WOW !

Hi Jury !

You are -still- in "Rybka" team ????????
I understand Vas writes and you copy !
Right ?
"Good luck " !

Silvian
:):):)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) Date 2009-05-22 12:12
The Rybka team obviously must have mixed feelings about this.  On one hand, their inner monopolist quietly exults as an existential threat surrenders the field.  On the other they know that if everyone quits the whole enterprise will become far less dynamic and start to decay.
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-05-23 18:50
here's hoping the thinker team/programmer can start taking their stuff a bit more seriously & give vas a run for the money :) (no offense vas!)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-05-23 21:45
And don´t forget Neelie! :-)
In some years Vas has to pay more than 1 billion $, because of ruining his opponents by low prices (and an extreme good product for free).
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-05-23 21:52
This won't happen until Vas gets Frederick to drop all of Chessbase's other engines...
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-05-23 23:25
Oh I see, you want to calm Vas down.
This isn´t my interest! :-)

PS: Only the Paranoid Survive (Andrew S. Grove)! :-)
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-05-24 00:10
Being paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get you! :-)
Parent - - By Roland Rösler (****) Date 2009-05-24 00:53

>Being paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get you! :-)


Being paranoid means there is (maybe) someone out to get you!  (My logical (?) translation)

PS: And Andrew was right! :-)
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-05-24 03:58
You missed the joke...

Paraphrase:

Just because you have a disease that makes you think that people are out to get you doesn't mean that there really aren't people out to get you...
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) Date 2009-05-25 11:33
LOL
Parent - - By Mickey (**) Date 2009-05-22 15:56
There is nothing to celebrate by Rybka team or other programmers on this development. The truth is that chess programmes are becoming stronger and stronger with time. For instance, Deep Fritz 11 is close to Rybka 2.3.2a in playing strength (You will agree with me that Naum 4 is slightly stronger than Rybka 2.3.2a). DF12 may be released any moment from now and you find out is as strong as R3. Hiarcs is also known for surprises in new releases. Deep Junior excellent performance at the last WCC also proves that the next version of DJ11 might be something else. Not to forget Thinker, Toga, Stock Fish etc.
Parent - By Carl Bicknell (*****) Date 2009-05-22 23:35

> DF12 may be released any moment from now


A couple of people have suggested this. I reckon DF12 is still 8-12 months away
Parent - - By FWCC (***) Date 2009-05-26 14:17
I agree,Thinker might be the one to watch.Maybe someone can awaken Anthony to work on the Zappa project once again.It looks like Vas will rule for the next 5-10 years or until a breakout engine or discovery is made by a competitor.I say 5-10 years because eventually all the engines will meet at a certain plateau I think.But which one will solve The Chess?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) Date 2009-05-26 20:52
i think Cozzie buried Zappa in Utah desert,or some desert.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2009-05-26 23:04
Yes, I suspect that as we speak, he is waxing nostalgic, wishing he was once again a poor student, spending every waking moment working on his chess engine for less than minimum wage. Well, maybe not! :-)
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) Date 2009-05-23 18:48
this is a shame.  it's currently the only engine to even compete with rybka according to the lists & competition is always good, plus it's nice to see up & comers.  i have never seen a naum game & haven't wanted to spend the c-note it would take to secure it, but i've read it plays a unique & active style of chess to back up it's superstrong rating.  it's a shame it couldn't have been marketed better, as it's virtually unknown in the chess world despite being easily the second strongest engine on earth right now.
Parent - - By Marc Lacrosse (**) Date 2009-05-23 21:16

> it's currently the only engine to even compete with rybka according to the lists & competition is always good, plus it's nice to see up & comers.


There could be some surprises coming ... :-)

Marc
Parent - By AndrewWalker (**) Date 2009-05-24 08:42
Any hints? Even if you don't name them, are you referring to a known program
or a new program? Commercial or non-commercial?
Parent - By Debaser (***) Date 2009-05-24 08:53
The return of the Jedi?  ;)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-05-24 11:13
"There is a surprise coming ..."

Would have impacted me more.
Parent - - By SillyFunction (**) Date 2009-05-25 02:06 Edited 2009-05-25 02:09
yeah, Rybka 4 will leave Rybka 3 about 200 points behind!
Okay, let's speculate just 100.
I guess that's enough to surprise us, right? :-)
Parent - By AndrewWalker (**) Date 2009-05-25 10:40
Marc's post obviously isn't talking about Rybka 4.

Andrew
Parent - - By Marc Lacrosse (**) Date 2009-05-25 12:13
I know at least one program :
- that is presently actively developped
- the strength of which is at the moment somewhere between Zap mex and Naum 4 (closer to Naum 4)
- that has quite some potential for going higher.

And this is not Deep Sjeng :-)

But i won't say more :-)

Marc
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) Date 2009-05-26 00:35
And private? Could it be Fruit? (it's not like you'd be telling me.)
Parent - By AndrewWalker (**) Date 2009-05-26 07:14
Whatever it ends up being, when it gets to the strength of Rybka 3 I think the most important
thing is it has a different style of play than Rybka. This will be more interesting than 5 or 10 elo points!

Andrew
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