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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Correspondence Chess / Relay Chess: H1N1 Junkies Vs. NATIONAL12 & Vempele 1/2-1/2
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Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-24 15:05
Stockfish scores the game at about 0.60 for white. Another reason I am not opting for the draw just yet :)
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-24 15:20
i dont go to playchess,sorry.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-24 21:20
IDeA fell into the draw singularity and I didn't have enough time for interactive analysis (I've played 89 OTB games in the past four days!). I've finally found a solution to the singularity, but can't do overnight analysis at the moment.

Which is why 31...x is going to be late. Sorry.

Good night.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-24 23:04

> I've played 89 OTB games in the past four days!


Wow, I was expecting the result of your fifth game on the tournament but I guess that doesn't matter anymore, no wonder why you're much stronger OTB than all of us :yell:

Good luck! It seems you really love chess, so it's good that you do what you enjoy, I won't flag you :smile:
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-24 23:14

> I won't flag you


Me either, I am having to much fun playing with Windows 7:)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-24 23:22
Does your Windows 7 64bit have problem running applications that run fine on Windows XP 64bit? That would be my biggest concern.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-25 03:57
So far everything I have works fine. I have a bit of trouble with Arena GUI but it has always been a bit buggy. CB GUI works better then ever with Win7. I have not used XP in over a year and the last version of it I had was XP PRO 32 bit. I would just run dual boot-able system with XP and Win7, like I am doing now with Vista and Win7.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-25 19:36
31...g5 0.00 (Rybka) +0.29 (Stockfish)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-25 21:03
0.08 rybka d31.
Parent - - By Jonas (****) [at] Date 2009-05-25 21:49
xD nice to get stockfish scores now
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-25 22:03
can you give me a download link for stockfish.i will give it a workout.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-25 22:22
it runs on 8 cores according to my task manager at the moment after 31...g5 running at 7064 kN/s
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-25 22:29
it is using 89% of my core power,not the 100% it should be using.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-25 23:02
a quick eval of position with Stockfish at d30 complete gives 0.58 and speed has dropped to 6572 kN/s for some reason.it agrees with R3 on next few moves.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-26 11:21
i have now got it running 100% 8 core.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-26 00:25
32.Kd3

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1 Nfd4 15. Be3 Rd8
16. fxe5 b5 17. Qa6 Nb4 18. Qa3 Nbxc2 19. Rxd4 Nxa3
20. Rxd7 Rxd7 21. bxa3 O-O 22. Rd1 Rxd1+ 23. Kxd1 a6 24. a4
bxa4 25. Nxa4 Rc8 26. Kd2 f6 27. e6 Rc4 28. Nc3 Rc6 29. Nd4
Rd6 30. Nce2 f5 31. a4 g5 32. Kd3

6k1/4p1bp/p2rP3/5pp1/P2N4/3KB2P/4N1P1/8 b - -
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-26 01:03
32...f4
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-26 09:03
33.Bd2
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-26 09:21
33...Rd5
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-26 13:22 Edited 2009-05-26 13:25
+0.22 now. Let's see if I can convince Stockfish of the draw...
Parent - By Jonas (****) [at] Date 2009-05-26 17:28
Deep Jonas gives +0.80 for white... lets see if you can convince me of the draw.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-26 18:57
+0.18
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-26 20:40
its not Stockfish you have to convince,its Vytron & Port City Slim.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-26 20:48
That'll happen naturally. :) Stockfish needs more than just perfect defence.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-26 21:41
wonder if 9.h3 will be tested out on playchess,i leave that to others.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-27 01:17
Nobody is playing this opening as black on playchess. Currently being dominated by Sicilian and Caro Kanns, sometimes the French slips in or a Spanish.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-27 01:25
I think in these positions it's mostly important to follow a visual plan on the board, than to follow engine's evaluations, I don't believe in "useful shuffling", I just hope I'm following the winning plan.

34.Kc4 OVER 9000.00

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1 Nfd4 15. Be3 Rd8
16. fxe5 b5 17. Qa6 Nb4 18. Qa3 Nbxc2 19. Rxd4 Nxa3
20. Rxd7 Rxd7 21. bxa3 O-O 22. Rd1 Rxd1+ 23. Kxd1 a6 24. a4
bxa4 25. Nxa4 Rc8 26. Kd2 f6 27. e6 Rc4 28. Nc3 Rc6 29. Nd4
Rd6 30. Nce2 f5 31. a4 g5 32. Kd3 f4 33. Bd2 Rd5 34. Kc4

6k1/4p1bp/p3P3/3r2p1/P1KN1p2/7P/3BN1P1/8 b - -
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-27 07:11

> I just hope I'm following the winning plan.


What if there was no plan, but about 1000 different ways to win? I figure the odds are about the same as winning three coin flips in a row.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-27 08:16
That's 12.5% chance of winning, I think that's acceptable :smile:
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-27 08:30
I forgot to mention the coins are 1 sided and we know which side that is, they all have white kings on them :)
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-27 08:34
+0.15
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-27 09:30
I didn't provide any serious score, heh.

But, ehh, are you telling us that we were able to break the axiom or are you reporting from black's point of view to tell us that black has winning chances now?!
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-27 09:32

> black has winning chances now?!


Yikes ! Typo alert, do not scare me like this.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-27 09:49
It wasn't a typo I was asking Vempele if he believed that, since a 0.15 score from him was weird considering he even "axiomed" the game to a draw.

It turns out he just stopped reporting Rybka's scores and it's telling us his progress about convincing Stockfish that the position is 0.00.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-27 10:44
+0.11. I expected the tree to explode long before this.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-27 14:28
+0.07!
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-27 22:37
+0.04. Getting close...
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-28 00:35
I would consider anything below 0.10 a score anomaly and consider "draw score" achieved.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-27 09:37
Just reporting Stockfish scores.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-27 09:36
34...Re5
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-28 05:36 Edited 2009-05-28 05:49
35.Ng1

The only move Rybka scores above 0.00(35.Bb4) is a flat draw, Rybka is only scoring it this way because of a material advantage that can not win. Other moves I have to choose from(35.Nc3, etc) seem to be leading in the same direction. My next move seems like my only choice ATM and if it draws at least the position will be more of a clear draw to me. I did however really enjoy the idea behind Rybka's best move, but unfortunately a Bishop and King cannot mate a lone King. 

35.Bb4 Kf8 36.Nc3 Ke8 37.Nd5 Re4 38.Bc5 Bxd4 39.Kd3 Re2 40.Kxd4 Rxg2 41.Nxe7 Rd2+ 42.Kc3 Re2 43.Nd5 Rxe6 44.Nc7+ Kf7 45.Nxe6 Kxe6 46.Kd2 Kf5  =  (0.10)   Depth: 32

Zappa wants to play "ring around the posey" but is not making any progress when pitted against Rybka in this line.

35.Nc3 Kf8 36.Kd3 h6 37.Nce2 Rd5 38.Kc4 Re5 39.Nc3 Ke8 40.h4 Kf8 41.Kd3 Ke8 42.Kc4
  +/-  (0.90)   Depth: 28/75  
   
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-28 06:52
Also there was 35.h4 and a few other moves that I forgot to mention. I had 24 hours to move and I beat my brains out trying to find a winning solution, 35.Ng1 was my third move and I had solved Bb4 and Nc3 to draws, Ng1 did not get as much time as the others but at worst it draws too... In thinking back, Nc3 had the most promise but was a very long and almost impossible to analyze completely move, it's big champions were Zappa and Naum but against Rybka's top choices they both ended up drawing the world's number one chess engine.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-28 06:56
35...Re4

Ng1 was one of the three +0.04 moves.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-28 07:02
So you would have played it, or did you think there was something better?
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-28 07:05 Edited 2009-05-28 07:10
News just in: only Kd3 remains at +0.04.

I don't know what I would have played. Certainly not Kd3, though. :)
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-28 07:11
Kd3 transposed into my some of my Nc3 lines, which is why Nc3 was looked at hard. In the end Nc3 just looked like a time wasting move which seen a lot of the same positions repeating themselves.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-28 07:17
I think they were all draws and I think that goes way back some moves too. I honestly think white never had a forced win, but the idea of this endgame was very tempting. I thought it was my only shot at "falling" into a win, these games now days are tuff to win despite Alan/Deleted's failing hopes that there is life in CC Chess. When you are playing not to lose, and drawing is acceptable then draws are very likely. CC tournaments still have some interest because players can not afford to just draw every game, so in turn they play very risky and sometimes eek out wins. I think it is like a game of chicken, whoever reaches to far first loses. In these game neither side went out on a limb and risked losing/winning to gain a ultra scary and unsound position.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-28 07:29 Edited 2009-05-28 07:32
I want to play this game until white's 38th move. Blacks choices are very simple(a conditional can even be offered now until then) and if we all agree by then that it is drawn the FEN position will be or should be easy to analyze for humans without computers.

Also by then my massive PV9 analysis should be finished, LOL. For move # 38 white has 9 moves that I have identified as non losing.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-28 11:48
As for me, I was counting on 35.Nc3 for trying to win, after Ng1, if I was black, I think I could draw against God, so I'm ready to offer/accept a draw wherever you guys want. If the plans with 27.Kd3/35.Nc3 wouldn't work (and I'm pretty sure they don't, since PortCitySlim usually looks deeper than me) then I think this game was a draw long time ago.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Correspondence Chess / Relay Chess: H1N1 Junkies Vs. NATIONAL12 & Vempele 1/2-1/2
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