He Larry, you forgot some engines. F11 made a 100 Elo jump over F10 and DeepSjeng 3.0 made a 100 Elo jump over 2.7.
I think you have to correct your statement. It sounds like he does illegitimate (illegal?) things. We are not interested in rumors or hearsay when you accuse SMK. Facts or excuse!
PS: SMK would be the last I suspect.
PS: SMK would be the last I suspect.
True Roland, I don't think SMK would do such a thing. I hope sends the post again.
Now! You have heard the term " Every Man has his price" this I am sure. That is one example of " amnesia" . When a man sells himself out short. SMK would never do that- it just would not follow- (but every man has his price?!). Another is the more command where by one falls into the " Throws of confusion " due to extenuating circumstances so much so where he forgets himself. Forgets who he is and then loses his " Center" (self) that is in my book, amnesia. So you see- you don't have to buy it - it's free!!!
sidserious-my elevator is now going to the top floor. Oh, Boy!!!
Another example is Naum.
But Shredder 11 seems a "distinct entity", at least from CCRL statistics point of view
> CCRL statistics suggest this, look at Pond hit and Eval diff, the difference f10/f11 is clear
> Another example is Naum.
> But Shredder 11 seems a "distinct entity", at least from CCRL statistics point of view
I think that is why we find engines like Thinker 5.1 or Micro-Max in the list of "Most similar pairs". These engines do not send a pv, or not in a way Fritz can read it, so the GUI will never find a ponder disagreement for these engines. Therefore, for example the 85.2% for Thinker with Fritz 8 can only mean that Fritz 8 caused 14.8% ponder disagreements in their games, but we do not know how often Thinker disagreed. With another ~20%, it would result in a more or less normal total p.h.%.
(With "normal" engines it is a mix of ponderhits from both.)
P.S. I found Shredder only once, in these correlation lists: Deep Shredder 9 is "most similar" to Shredder 9 :-) (by eval difference). Surprisingly, they played 399 test games against each other.
Strelka is considered in the same family than Rybka, so it does not appear in that list
Strelka is considered a clone of Rybka 1 beta and the statistics are 71.4% and 0.23
> only that most of the latest versions of top programs seem to play more like Rybka than the previous generation, according to many posts on this forum at least.
Yes, Shredder 10 was one of the most aggressive engines of its time (not counting King Attacks) and the change in playing style to Shredder 11 is dramatic. You just have to watch the games to realize that something happened and it doesn't feel much like Shredder anymore. (I apologize in advance if this sounds accusatory, that's not my point, but a different approach seems to have taken place.)
I think the gain of ~70 Elo in the Fritz match is quite normal (~35 Elo per doubling cores). R2 vs R3 is special. Shredder is the favorite opponent of Rybka (look to CEGT and CCRL).
1. When R3 sp plays a match take a longer tc than 1+1 (e.g. 4+1 or even 5+1). TC 1+1 is to short for sp!
2. Take more opponents to check what is right (+130 or +190 can´t be right).
Where are the data? I can´t see that it isn´t too short against other engines. It´s too short against Shredder too. When we only have data about 3 engines (F, S and R2) we can´t say exactly what´s normal, only guess. Maybe Elo differences in the Shredder and R2 cases are not drastically different from other matches in 1+1 tc? We don´t know.
Please let me know if you was succsessful.
My theory: Good pruning, one of Rybkas strength, needs some time to be successful (more than 1+1 on sp). What´s average ply depth from R3 in 1+1 games on sp?
Since 2005, we were witnessing a whole series of surprises. - I am flabbergasted. :-)
Really thanks to you and Vas by this amazing achievement. It's quite difficult to believe a result like that Larry, it's really impressive.
Do you believe that Rybka 3 SP can deafeat 2.3.2a 4 cores but under slower time controls? I think it could be good to re-run some mini match -less games- but under slower time controls. Why not with 1+3 or 2+2 time controls?
I wouldn't assume that this would be more than 100 ELO points.
Rybka3 ist estimated more than 100 ponts stronger than Rybka2.
(big Respect, if this is true!!!)
But why is it astonishing then, that the one-core-Rybka3 wins against the 4-core-Rybka2?
But i wonder if it's because of MUCH better CPU use efficiency(speedup) of Rybka 3 over Rybka 2.3.2a.
So it would be interesting if you can match this latest Rybka 3 against Rybka 2.3.2a with a 1:4 time handicap.
That would, comparing with the result on 1:4 cores you gave, show interesting things as how much speedup efficiency has improved....
If for example the 1:4 time handicap give +25 ELO for Rybka 2.3.2a then speedup efficiency has been improved a lot.
If the 1:4 time handicap give around +18 ELO for Rybka 3 then speedup efficiency hasn't been improved by much, but general playing ability of Rybka 3 has been improved much more than the expected.
If the 1:4 time handicap give +50 ELO for Rybka 3 then speedup efficiency would become worse. :-) That case it would mean general playing ability of Rybka 3 has amazingly drastically improved much more than the expected. It would also mean another thing: That something is broken in Rybka's multiprocessor skills, so if that speedup bug is fixed then Rybka would have another +20-30 ELO.
Improved search ? longer thinking time for R3 ? other things ?
Haha, I know that you're not part of the Rybka team; I just figured I'd ask anyway. :-P
NOW! " THE FISH IS IN THE BOWL " .................................................................................hot cha cha
sidserious- " David "- this one has got to be for you- it from the beginning!!!
However, will the fish-like in the PBS commercial dive out of the bowl-right out a window and on to an umbrella, sliding off into a puddle, only to flop out of the way of an on coming car just in the nick of time, then to,...flip into an empty water receptacle waiting to go back to be refilled. Then, when cross and expansion bridge, that mighty little fish jumps out of the jug into the rushing waters below- and, swims, with the rest of the cyber free, chess engines. Like it was meant to be, right from the very beginning.
I caught, Paul's nice words for me and you, Turbo. It takes time and a great deal of consideration for each to achieve that kind of understanding and one of the biggest steps in that process, as it is a process, was the willingness to open ourselves up to each other on a number of levels. The strength of character and dignity of respecting each others boundaries allowed for us to grow as people and take shape and become real in each others lives. The amazing thing is that Paul is across the Pond, yet feels like he lives next door.
> I am here dedicating my 5500th post to you. :-)
Where's your sixth pawn??!
> > I am here dedicating my 5500th post to you. :-)
>Where's your sixth pawn??!
If the Forum Challenge were bughouse, maybe he'd have a use for those pawns... Then again, they're probably the wrong colour. :-P
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