Poll
What will the outcome be (Closed)
| Houdini 2 Zappa 0 | 15 | 31% | |
| Houdini 1.5 Zappa .5 | 21 | 44% | |
| Houdini 1 Zappa 1 | 9 | 19% | |
| Zappa 2 Houdini 0 | 1 | 2% | |
| Zappa 1.5 Houdini .5 | 2 | 4% |
![[gb]](/mwf/v12/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
What is the maximum number of cores Zappa can use.
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
I believe Anthony Cozzie (Zappa's Author) once stated it can handle up to 512 cores.
You need two PCs with equal hardware {as best you can make it} and must repeat your tests with the engines using the other PC, e.g., PC1 has Zappa and Houdini has PC2 for the number of 8h / move games you planned {should be an even number so that each engine has the same opening start point as white and black} and then reverse so PC1 now has Houdini and PC2 has Zappa for a repeat of the games just played but with the hardware/software combination swapped - this removes a fair amount of uncertainty around hardware/software difference on each PC.
Testung between two stand-alone pieces of software should always be done on two PCs at some point as this removes many uncertainties from the testing, including 'unwanted/unknown' interoperability between the two pieces of software under test.
Testung between two stand-alone pieces of software should always be done on two PCs at some point as this removes many uncertainties from the testing, including 'unwanted/unknown' interoperability between the two pieces of software under test.
![[mx]](/mwf/v12/flags/mx.png "Mexico")
Untrue. Testing is perfectly valid in a single PC, as long as you keep Ponder OFF and avoid memory swapping.
Actually, there may be twice the 'unwanted/unknown' interoperability uncertainty in 2 PCs than just one (what if one of the PCs isn't identical enough and it's handicapping one of the engines, etc.)
Actually, there may be twice the 'unwanted/unknown' interoperability uncertainty in 2 PCs than just one (what if one of the PCs isn't identical enough and it's handicapping one of the engines, etc.)
Uly,
Your suggestion regarding using one engine in Aquarium and the other in Fritz makes sense and would be a better experiment. The problem is that my pc is in my bedroom and it is hard to sleep with it on. Even at idle speed, the fan is loud, and the side of the case with the case fan emits a strong blue light when the pc is powered on. I would be an interesting test to see whether the hash would be retained if I hibernated the pc and then woke it up. The problem remains that the blue light is enough to make it hard for me to sleep. Also, I seem to remember that while hibernating, an annoying light blinks somewhere on the top of the case. Also, If i were to sacrifice peaceful sleep for the sake of a better experiment, there are too many possibilities that my pc will need to be rebooted during the time that the match will be taking place. Houdini has a working save/load hash feature. Unfortunatedly, Zappa does not.
In future years, I'll plan my setups better to run long time control matches. As Houdini will also lose saved hash, I am handicapping it as well. If Zappa works manages hash better than Houdini, then perhaps I am handicapping Zappa more.
Uly,
Again thanks for the advice, but right now, I am continuing the match with the current conditions.
Nelson,
Can you let me know when I am out of book.
Thanks
Your suggestion regarding using one engine in Aquarium and the other in Fritz makes sense and would be a better experiment. The problem is that my pc is in my bedroom and it is hard to sleep with it on. Even at idle speed, the fan is loud, and the side of the case with the case fan emits a strong blue light when the pc is powered on. I would be an interesting test to see whether the hash would be retained if I hibernated the pc and then woke it up. The problem remains that the blue light is enough to make it hard for me to sleep. Also, I seem to remember that while hibernating, an annoying light blinks somewhere on the top of the case. Also, If i were to sacrifice peaceful sleep for the sake of a better experiment, there are too many possibilities that my pc will need to be rebooted during the time that the match will be taking place. Houdini has a working save/load hash feature. Unfortunatedly, Zappa does not.
In future years, I'll plan my setups better to run long time control matches. As Houdini will also lose saved hash, I am handicapping it as well. If Zappa works manages hash better than Houdini, then perhaps I am handicapping Zappa more.
Uly,
Again thanks for the advice, but right now, I am continuing the match with the current conditions.
Nelson,
Can you let me know when I am out of book.
Thanks
Hah, you should have heard the noise in here where I had two servers roaring at 100% around the clock. It sounded like a server farm. You can't sleep with all the racket and blinking lights? You must not be tired!
What game is in progress that needs to be judged in or out of book? The one in this thread? If so, long way to go.
What game is in progress that needs to be judged in or out of book? The one in this thread? If so, long way to go.
Nelson,
I was asking about this game. I predict we will be out of book in less than 15 moves. I think Zappa will at some point make an innocuous looking move that has not seen before.
I was asking about this game. I predict we will be out of book in less than 15 moves. I think Zappa will at some point make an innocuous looking move that has not seen before.
Except for the fact that I have a pretty impressive number of Zappa games in book!
Nelson,
I always appreciate your deep book database. I do however propose a friendly wager of 1 glass of wine. If you agree that the game is out of book before move 16, I win the bet. We don't live too far apart an can meet one day to settle up.
I always appreciate your deep book database. I do however propose a friendly wager of 1 glass of wine. If you agree that the game is out of book before move 16, I win the bet. We don't live too far apart an can meet one day to settle up.
Silly wager. It's easy to get out of book in three moves and there may be ways to do it in two. 1.f3 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.a4 does the trick.
I would be surprised to see either ZMII or H2.0c suggest these moves after spending eight hours on the position...
Ah. You see, I don't read entire threads any more. I only note when someone says "Nelson" and pick up from there. Another casualty of the bitter wars of 2011-12.
Now that I've read the thread from the beginning (
) and see what you're trying to do, your wager seems more reasonable, but if I were a betting man I would take your side of the bet too, so it doesn't make sense for me to wager! The Nimzo is more channelized than most openings; and just one rarely-played move in the sequence could put you in a position to exit book within ten moves rather easily.
) and see what you're trying to do, your wager seems more reasonable, but if I were a betting man I would take your side of the bet too, so it doesn't make sense for me to wager! The Nimzo is more channelized than most openings; and just one rarely-played move in the sequence could put you in a position to exit book within ten moves rather easily.
> Untrue. Testing is perfectly valid in a single PC, as long as you keep Ponder OFF and avoid memory swapping.
>
> Actually, there may be twice the 'unwanted/unknown' interoperability uncertainty in 2 PCs than just one (what if one of the PCs isn't identical enough and it's handicapping one of the engines, etc.)
On the contrary. There is very clear evidence that recent engines have conflicts on a single PC. So far Deep Rybka 4.1 interferes with HIARCS 13.2. Stockfish 2.2.2 and Critter 1.4 interfere with Zappa MexicoII. It seems to be focused around memory allocation conflicts that are well within the bounds of system RAM. The only way to have confidence is to use two two PC's with the same hardware. Significant manufacturing tolerance variations should show up on comparitive tests but of the two pairs of same specification PC's I've built the differences are negligible. Any memory conflicts will affect an engine whether ponder is on or off.
PeterG
> On the contrary. There is very clear evidence that recent engines have conflicts on a single PC. So far Deep Rybka 4.1 interferes with HIARCS 13.2. Stockfish 2.2.2 and Critter 1.4 interfere with Zappa MexicoII. It seems to be focused around memory allocation conflicts that are well within the bounds of system RAM
I have never seen any evidence of that. What leads you to that conclusion ?
> I have never seen any evidence of that. What leads you to that conclusion ?
Low ply count for HIARCS in the early out of book moves versus DR4.1. Does not happen with other engines. Indicates HIARCS having to recover hash but not clear as yet.
All too frequent time losses for Zappa MexicioII when playing against SF2.2.2 and Critter 1.4.
There is no doubt at all when playing with ponder on, it is clearly visible. Any affects with ponder off being masked by the opponent inactivity but if it is shown to be a memory distribution problem then even ponder off results will be cast into doubt.
There has been a long standing problem with Rybka in Windows and disappearing available memory that is unaccounted for. Surrounds use of Nalimov EGTB. Memory restored on unloading Rybka and does not happen if EGTB switched to never.
How many people check the games during or after a match? The 1 min blitz games on 1 PC that many people favour to get an initial appreciation of engine changes give, sometimes significantly, different results compared to testing on 2 PC's with memory on.
When setting engines to two threads in an engine match on a quad, there should be no major issues with interference between engines even with ponder on. O/S background tasks may take some small resource but is unlikely to have significant impact with today's CPU speeds.
Personally I do not want to spend much time analysing this because I generally test using two PC's, one per engine so not an issue. However, when this cropped up I needed to use 1 PC so used just the one PC for an extended tournament over 1 month.
The tournament posted below.
PeterG
Attachment: Noomen20128EnginePGN.7z - Tourney games (1812k)
Well I have never seen the behaviour that you describe.
I have heard people say that using large pages for one engine can affect another, but I never use large pages, so maybe that is it.
I have heard people say that using large pages for one engine can affect another, but I never use large pages, so maybe that is it.
Hi Peter,
One problem I have noticed recently is when an engine uses large pages it hogs resources. I have never managed in an engine match for both engines to get large pages allocated. Not a problem if you can turn them off for both engines. However the latest Houdini does not have an off for Large Pages.
Cheers,
Harvey
One problem I have noticed recently is when an engine uses large pages it hogs resources. I have never managed in an engine match for both engines to get large pages allocated. Not a problem if you can turn them off for both engines. However the latest Houdini does not have an off for Large Pages.
Cheers,
Harvey
Harvey,
Thanks for the advice. My windows 7 system is not configured for large pages.
Thanks for the advice. My windows 7 system is not configured for large pages.
Yes, best solution for testing is to disable them. But it is a pain to have to keep doing that.
It is relatively easy to use large pages for two or more chess engines (with the exception of Rybka 4.x) if you are using a third party memory manager. This is of course a necessity to support engines that don't have native large page support.
But for the average tester it should be a matter of pressing go and not having to worry about it.
They should just enable LP in windows and then all should work fine or there should be an off button in engine settings.
They should just enable LP in windows and then all should work fine or there should be an off button in engine settings.
LP setup is more complicated than just on/off and engine developers are very parochial and optimize for their own engine, and if their specific settings hurt a competing engine, so much the better. So you end up with something akin to gorilla warfare. I wouldn't bet that this is all accidental...
I agree. But it is a problem for the testers who test on 1 machine.
Yes, you're right. I was originally thinking that using a third party memory manager could solve the problem, but this would only work if each of the engines allowed turning LP off (leaving all setup to the memory manager under user control). Otherwise the engines could modify the LP settings, and the problem would remain. I suspect there is probably a method of using permissions to prevent this on more recent versions of windows, but I'm still using XP64 on all of my machines, so I'm not sure...
If the permissions in the O/S are not turned on, then engines can request large pages all they want, but it won't get them
But the average person isn't running engine-engine matches though, they are probably just doing analysis work. For this purpose the speed increase from LP is useful I guess.
But the average person isn't running engine-engine matches though, they are probably just doing analysis work. For this purpose the speed increase from LP is useful I guess.
Being able to turn on/off LP in a global sense wouldn't help, but if later versions of windows allow the option of allowing LP invocation only by programs run as administrator, then you could restrict their use to only the memory manager.
I find LP useful for a number of engines that don't have native support, including Critter, Stockfish, and Zappa. In each case, there is a gain of roughly 10% when using 2 or 4 GB hash.
I find LP useful for a number of engines that don't have native support, including Critter, Stockfish, and Zappa. In each case, there is a gain of roughly 10% when using 2 or 4 GB hash.
Thanks Harvey, I thought LP may be the culprit but there was no consistency. I anticipated using 512 Mb per engine on a 4Gb machine would not cause a problem. The interference with HIARCS early move ply depth was not predictable and the problem only occurred between Rybka and HIARCS as far as I could see when watching some of the affected games being played. In the case of Critter and Stockfish against Zappa MexicoII, something else was going on because they do not use LP.
The problem of LP though is that on my setup I find that it does have some significant impact on results for engines that are able to use LP so I do not go along with the line that LP makes little difference. Houdini and Rybka engines certainly play stronger when using LP's but everyone to their own findings!
Regards,
Peter
The problem of LP though is that on my setup I find that it does have some significant impact on results for engines that are able to use LP so I do not go along with the line that LP makes little difference. Houdini and Rybka engines certainly play stronger when using LP's but everyone to their own findings!
Regards,
Peter
512 Mb per engine on a 4Gb machine would not cause a problem.
Physical memory is one potential bottleneck. TLB entries are another potential bottleneck when multiple engines are competing for LP resources...
Physical memory is one potential bottleneck. TLB entries are another potential bottleneck when multiple engines are competing for LP resources...
> when multiple engines are competing for LP resources
Only DR4.1 and the Houdini engines were using LP's. There were no apparent issues betwen these and results went pretty much as expected. Did not find any evidence of the Houdini engines interfering with HIARCS or any other engine for that matter. So it was only DR4.1 had this impact on HIARCS. You can check the posted games yourself in case I missed something. Only two engines were running at any given time.
Regards,
PeterG
I am not surprised by this Peter. I would also anticipate other software being used on the PC as possible areas where interoperability issues may transpire. The problem is very difficult to spot unless you are looking for it; usually the focus of the test is on the two chess engines and so could easily be missed.
Two PCs that are rotated as part of the test removes interoperability issues and allows each engine to function in the way the programmer intended, i.e., with ponder on.
Two PCs that are rotated as part of the test removes interoperability issues and allows each engine to function in the way the programmer intended, i.e., with ponder on.
> I would also anticipate other software being used on the PC as possible areas where interoperability issues may transpire.
Two computers would have double the software running, including the OS (e.g. instead of having to deal with potential problems in one OS, you have to deal with two of them.)
Untrue is the wrong word choice Uly; you don't need to agree with me Uly but please try to use the correct words when you disagree. Whether you like it or not, I only speak the truth - I'm not here to spin or score points.
You said "You need two PCs with equal hardware".
The test can be done with 1. Which means you don't need 2. Which makes the statement untrue.
Probably you used the wrong word, and you meant "want" (as in "you'd want to use two PCs with equal hardware.")
The test can be done with 1. Which means you don't need 2. Which makes the statement untrue.
Probably you used the wrong word, and you meant "want" (as in "you'd want to use two PCs with equal hardware.")
How sad Uly - if you wish to quote me then please use the whole statement. Please also note the point about repeating the test with PCs reversed to remove any bias that may exist.
Please feel free to reply to this message but don't expect an answer from me; none will be given.
Please feel free to reply to this message but don't expect an answer from me; none will be given.
> Please also note the point about repeating the test with PCs reversed to remove any bias that may exist.
Handicapping one engine and then the other is not a solution, better is to not handicap any of them.
> Please feel free to reply to this message but don't expect an answer from me; none will be given.
Please feel free to not reply to any of my messages in the future.
![[ph]](/mwf/v12/flags/ph.png "Philippines")
Nice try! I love to see Engine matches at long time control like this. Sadly your decision to use "time per move" is flawed and unfair. If you force the Engine to move at the 8th hour while its not yet finished with its current depth, it will just make the move it found around 6 hours ago. Therefore the last 6 hours of analysis is wasted. What's unfair is when the other engine just finished its current depth before you force it to move therefore it fully utilized its time far better than the unfortunate engine. You should have opted for a longer time Per Game instead of Per move. Say One Week per Game with the advantage of running it unsupervised.
This is an interesting test. Thanks for running it!
Can you do us a favor though and run 100 games? Just kidding!
Can you do us a favor though and run 100 games? Just kidding!
![[in]](/mwf/v12/flags/in.png "India")
I think you should use Arena or any other GUI with time controls such as 1 move in 480 minutes....
this way both the engines will use a lot of time....
HOWEVER I STILL BELIEVE NATWARLAL AT 40 MOVES IN 75 YEARS IS STILL THE BEST WITH AN ELO OF APPROXIMATELY 4000....
this way both the engines will use a lot of time....
HOWEVER I STILL BELIEVE NATWARLAL AT 40 MOVES IN 75 YEARS IS STILL THE BEST WITH AN ELO OF APPROXIMATELY 4000....
Houdini Played 4 0-0
Analysis by Houdini 2.0c Pro x64:
4...0-0 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d5
= (-0.07) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 4kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.g3 b6 7.a3 Bd6
= (-0.05) Depth: 7/17 00:00:00 7kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.e3 b6 7.a3 Bd6 8.b4 h6
= (-0.10) Depth: 8/17 00:00:00 12kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d5 6.cxd5 exd5 7.Bf4 Nc6 8.e3 Ne4 9.a3
= (-0.04) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 48kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3
= (0.02 --) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 62kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d5 6.cxd5 exd5 7.Bf4 0-0 8.e3 Ne4 9.h3 Re8
= (-0.08) Depth: 10/24 00:00:00 77kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3
= (-0.01 --) Depth: 11/24 00:00:00 100kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d5 6.e3 0-0 7.Bd2 h6 8.a3 Be7 9.h3 a6
= (0.00) Depth: 11/24 00:00:00 189kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3
= (0.06 --) Depth: 12/24 00:00:00 249kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 0-0 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 exd5 10.Bd3 Qe7 11.0-0 Ne4 12.h3 h6 13.a4
= (0.04) Depth: 12/25 00:00:00 507kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3
= (0.10 --) Depth: 13/25 00:00:00 687kN
4...d6 5.e4 0-0 6.Nf3 e5 7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Be3 Nc6 9.Rd1 Bd6 10.h3 Nb4 11.Qd2
= (0.09) Depth: 13/26 00:00:00 1295kN
4...d6 5.e4 0-0 6.Nf3 e5 7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Be3 Qe7 9.Rd1 Nc6 10.Be2 Bc5 11.0-0 Bxe3 12.fxe3 Nb4
= (0.11) Depth: 14/26 00:00:00 1574kN
4...d6 5.e4
= (0.18 --) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 4012kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.e3 b6 7.Bd3 Bd6 8.a3 Bb7 9.0-0 Ne7 10.b4 a5 11.c5 bxc5 12.dxc5
= (0.10) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 5452kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.e3 b6 7.Bd3 Bd6 8.a3 Bb7 9.0-0 Ne7 10.b4 Bxf3 11.gxf3 a6 12.Bb2 h6
= (0.15) Depth: 16/32 00:00:01 7770kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.Bd3 Qe7 9.0-0 Bxf3 10.gxf3 Bxc3 11.Bxc3 Nc6 12.a3 h6 13.d5
= (0.11) Depth: 16/34 00:00:01 12253kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.Bd3 Qe7 9.0-0 Bxf3 10.gxf3 Bxc3 11.Bxc3 Nc6 12.a3 h6 13.b4 a6 14.Rad1 a5
= (0.11) Depth: 17/36 00:00:01 15486kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 Nbd7 10.Bd3 c5 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Qe7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Rad1 Ne5 15.Bxe5 dxe5
= (0.14) Depth: 18/36 00:00:02 21034kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.Bd3 c5 9.dxc5 bxc5 10.a3 Bxc3 11.Bxc3 Nbd7 12.0-0 Bxf3 13.gxf3 Qc7 14.f4 Qb7 15.f3 Rab8 16.b4
= (0.14) Depth: 19/36 00:00:03 33944kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d5 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 Qxd5 10.dxc5 Bb7 11.cxb6 axb6 12.Be2 Qc5 13.0-0 Be4 14.Qb3 Nc6 15.Bb2 Rfd8 16.Rad1 Nd5
= (0.12) Depth: 20/42 00:00:09 92914kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d5 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 Qxd5 10.dxc5 Bb7 11.cxb6 axb6 12.Be2 Qc5 13.0-0 Be4 14.Qb3 Nc6 15.Bb2 Rfd8 16.Rad1 h6 17.h3
= (0.12) Depth: 21/45 00:00:14 141mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.Be2 Qc7 10.0-0 b6 11.e4 d6 12.Rd1 Bb7 13.Bf4 Nh5 14.Be3 Nf6 15.Rab1 Ng4
= (0.06) Depth: 22/45 00:00:29 293mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 Bb7 12.e4 d6 13.Be3 e5 14.Rab1 Na5 15.d5 Rad8 16.Rfe1
= (0.05) Depth: 23/54 00:00:47 470mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 d6 12.Rb1 Ba6 13.e4 e5 14.d5 Na5 15.Qe2 Bb7 16.Rd1 Rad8
= (0.05) Depth: 24/54 00:01:07 677mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.Rb1 d6 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 Qc7 12.h3 Ba6 13.e4 e5 14.d5 Na5 15.Qe2 Bb7 16.Be3 Rad8 17.Bc2 Qd7
= (0.05) Depth: 25/54 00:02:02 1249mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 d6 12.e4 e5 13.Be3 Na5 14.d5 Ba6 15.Nd2 Rad8 16.Be2 Bb7 17.Rab1 Qe7 18.Rfe1 Qd7 19.Rb5
= (0.05) Depth: 26/54 00:04:30 2807mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 d6 12.e4 e5 13.Be3 Na5 14.d5 Ba6 15.Nd2 Rad8 16.Be2 Bb7 17.Rab1 Qe7 18.Rfe1 Qd7 19.Rb5
= (0.05) Depth: 27/55 00:07:01 4384mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3
= (0.11 --) Depth: 28/65 00:24:52 15821mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 e5 13.dxe5 Nxe5 14.Be2 Rae8 15.Qf5 g6 16.Qh3 d5 17.Rad1 Nxc4 18.Qh4 Ne5 19.f4 Ned7 20.f5 Ne4 21.Qxe7 Rxe7 22.Rxd5 Nxc3 23.bxc3
= (0.09) Depth: 28/75 00:59:00 38356mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Rfe8 13.Be2 e5 14.dxe5 Nxe5 15.Rad1 Qe6 16.Kg2 Qd7 17.Rg1 Qc6 18.Qf5 Nfd7 19.Kf1 g6 20.f4 Nxc4
= (0.12) Depth: 29/75 01:04:18 41827mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Rfe8 13.Kg2 e5 14.Rae1 g6 15.Rg1 a5 16.b3 c6 17.Re2 d5 18.cxd5 Nxd5 19.Bb2 Rac8 20.Rd2 b5 21.Be4 exd4 22.Bxd4 Qxa3
= (0.10) Depth: 30/75 01:46:15 69672mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Rfe8 13.Kg2 e5 14.Be2 exd4 15.Bxd4 c5 16.Bxf6 Nxf6 17.Rad1 Nh5 18.b4 cxb4 19.axb4 a5 20.bxa5 Rxa5 21.Rg1 g6 22.Qb2 Rg5+ 23.Kh1 Rxg1+ 24.Kxg1 Nf4 25.exf4 Qxe2 26.Qxe2 Rxe2 27.Rxd6
= (0.09) Depth: 31/75 02:47:36 110382mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.e3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 b6 8.Bd3 Bb7 9.e4 e5 10.0-0 Nbd7 11.Rb1 Re8 12.Re1 Rb8 13.g3 Qe7 14.Nh4 g6 15.Bg5 Qe6 16.f3 a5 17.Bf1 Ra8 18.Be3 Rad8 19.a3 Ra8 20.Bg5 Rad8 21.d5
= (0.10) Depth: 32/76 05:29:35 219072mN
[Event "Nimzo Challenge"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.04.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Black "Houdini Pro 2.0C"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Annotator "Doe,John"]
[PlyCount "8"]
[EventDate "2012.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 O-O {0.10/32 31256} *
rnbqk2r/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N5/PPQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR b KQkq - 0 1
Analysis by Houdini 2.0c Pro x64:
4...0-0 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d5
= (-0.07) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 4kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.g3 b6 7.a3 Bd6
= (-0.05) Depth: 7/17 00:00:00 7kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.e3 b6 7.a3 Bd6 8.b4 h6
= (-0.10) Depth: 8/17 00:00:00 12kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d5 6.cxd5 exd5 7.Bf4 Nc6 8.e3 Ne4 9.a3
= (-0.04) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 48kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3
= (0.02 --) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 62kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d5 6.cxd5 exd5 7.Bf4 0-0 8.e3 Ne4 9.h3 Re8
= (-0.08) Depth: 10/24 00:00:00 77kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3
= (-0.01 --) Depth: 11/24 00:00:00 100kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d5 6.e3 0-0 7.Bd2 h6 8.a3 Be7 9.h3 a6
= (0.00) Depth: 11/24 00:00:00 189kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3
= (0.06 --) Depth: 12/24 00:00:00 249kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 0-0 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 exd5 10.Bd3 Qe7 11.0-0 Ne4 12.h3 h6 13.a4
= (0.04) Depth: 12/25 00:00:00 507kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3
= (0.10 --) Depth: 13/25 00:00:00 687kN
4...d6 5.e4 0-0 6.Nf3 e5 7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Be3 Nc6 9.Rd1 Bd6 10.h3 Nb4 11.Qd2
= (0.09) Depth: 13/26 00:00:00 1295kN
4...d6 5.e4 0-0 6.Nf3 e5 7.dxe5 dxe5 8.Be3 Qe7 9.Rd1 Nc6 10.Be2 Bc5 11.0-0 Bxe3 12.fxe3 Nb4
= (0.11) Depth: 14/26 00:00:00 1574kN
4...d6 5.e4
= (0.18 --) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 4012kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.e3 b6 7.Bd3 Bd6 8.a3 Bb7 9.0-0 Ne7 10.b4 a5 11.c5 bxc5 12.dxc5
= (0.10) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 5452kN
4...Nc6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.e3 b6 7.Bd3 Bd6 8.a3 Bb7 9.0-0 Ne7 10.b4 Bxf3 11.gxf3 a6 12.Bb2 h6
= (0.15) Depth: 16/32 00:00:01 7770kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.Bd3 Qe7 9.0-0 Bxf3 10.gxf3 Bxc3 11.Bxc3 Nc6 12.a3 h6 13.d5
= (0.11) Depth: 16/34 00:00:01 12253kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.Bd3 Qe7 9.0-0 Bxf3 10.gxf3 Bxc3 11.Bxc3 Nc6 12.a3 h6 13.b4 a6 14.Rad1 a5
= (0.11) Depth: 17/36 00:00:01 15486kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 Nbd7 10.Bd3 c5 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Qe7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Rad1 Ne5 15.Bxe5 dxe5
= (0.14) Depth: 18/36 00:00:02 21034kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.Bd3 c5 9.dxc5 bxc5 10.a3 Bxc3 11.Bxc3 Nbd7 12.0-0 Bxf3 13.gxf3 Qc7 14.f4 Qb7 15.f3 Rab8 16.b4
= (0.14) Depth: 19/36 00:00:03 33944kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d5 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 Qxd5 10.dxc5 Bb7 11.cxb6 axb6 12.Be2 Qc5 13.0-0 Be4 14.Qb3 Nc6 15.Bb2 Rfd8 16.Rad1 Nd5
= (0.12) Depth: 20/42 00:00:09 92914kN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 d5 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 Qxd5 10.dxc5 Bb7 11.cxb6 axb6 12.Be2 Qc5 13.0-0 Be4 14.Qb3 Nc6 15.Bb2 Rfd8 16.Rad1 h6 17.h3
= (0.12) Depth: 21/45 00:00:14 141mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.Be2 Qc7 10.0-0 b6 11.e4 d6 12.Rd1 Bb7 13.Bf4 Nh5 14.Be3 Nf6 15.Rab1 Ng4
= (0.06) Depth: 22/45 00:00:29 293mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 Bb7 12.e4 d6 13.Be3 e5 14.Rab1 Na5 15.d5 Rad8 16.Rfe1
= (0.05) Depth: 23/54 00:00:47 470mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 d6 12.Rb1 Ba6 13.e4 e5 14.d5 Na5 15.Qe2 Bb7 16.Rd1 Rad8
= (0.05) Depth: 24/54 00:01:07 677mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.Rb1 d6 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 Qc7 12.h3 Ba6 13.e4 e5 14.d5 Na5 15.Qe2 Bb7 16.Be3 Rad8 17.Bc2 Qd7
= (0.05) Depth: 25/54 00:02:02 1249mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 d6 12.e4 e5 13.Be3 Na5 14.d5 Ba6 15.Nd2 Rad8 16.Be2 Bb7 17.Rab1 Qe7 18.Rfe1 Qd7 19.Rb5
= (0.05) Depth: 26/54 00:04:30 2807mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 c5 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 Nc6 8.e3 h6 9.h3 Qc7 10.Bd3 b6 11.0-0 d6 12.e4 e5 13.Be3 Na5 14.d5 Ba6 15.Nd2 Rad8 16.Be2 Bb7 17.Rab1 Qe7 18.Rfe1 Qd7 19.Rb5
= (0.05) Depth: 27/55 00:07:01 4384mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3
= (0.11 --) Depth: 28/65 00:24:52 15821mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 e5 13.dxe5 Nxe5 14.Be2 Rae8 15.Qf5 g6 16.Qh3 d5 17.Rad1 Nxc4 18.Qh4 Ne5 19.f4 Ned7 20.f5 Ne4 21.Qxe7 Rxe7 22.Rxd5 Nxc3 23.bxc3
= (0.09) Depth: 28/75 00:59:00 38356mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Rfe8 13.Be2 e5 14.dxe5 Nxe5 15.Rad1 Qe6 16.Kg2 Qd7 17.Rg1 Qc6 18.Qf5 Nfd7 19.Kf1 g6 20.f4 Nxc4
= (0.12) Depth: 29/75 01:04:18 41827mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Rfe8 13.Kg2 e5 14.Rae1 g6 15.Rg1 a5 16.b3 c6 17.Re2 d5 18.cxd5 Nxd5 19.Bb2 Rac8 20.Rd2 b5 21.Be4 exd4 22.Bxd4 Qxa3
= (0.10) Depth: 30/75 01:46:15 69672mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.Bd2 Nbd7 7.e3 Qe7 8.a3 Bxc3 9.Bxc3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7 11.0-0 Bxf3 12.gxf3 Rfe8 13.Kg2 e5 14.Be2 exd4 15.Bxd4 c5 16.Bxf6 Nxf6 17.Rad1 Nh5 18.b4 cxb4 19.axb4 a5 20.bxa5 Rxa5 21.Rg1 g6 22.Qb2 Rg5+ 23.Kh1 Rxg1+ 24.Kxg1 Nf4 25.exf4 Qxe2 26.Qxe2 Rxe2 27.Rxd6
= (0.09) Depth: 31/75 02:47:36 110382mN
4...0-0 5.Nf3 d6 6.e3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 b6 8.Bd3 Bb7 9.e4 e5 10.0-0 Nbd7 11.Rb1 Re8 12.Re1 Rb8 13.g3 Qe7 14.Nh4 g6 15.Bg5 Qe6 16.f3 a5 17.Bf1 Ra8 18.Be3 Rad8 19.a3 Ra8 20.Bg5 Rad8 21.d5
= (0.10) Depth: 32/76 05:29:35 219072mN
[Event "Nimzo Challenge"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.04.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Black "Houdini Pro 2.0C"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Annotator "Doe,John"]
[PlyCount "8"]
[EventDate "2012.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 O-O {0.10/32 31256} *
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N5/PPQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR w KQ - 0 5
Attachment: challenge.pgn (285B)
I suspect that this thread will show Houdini Changing it's mind much less than Zappa.
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/2N5/PPQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR w KQ - 0 1
Analysis by Zappa Mexico II 64:
5.Bf4 d5 6.e3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 Nh5 8.Nh3 Nxf4 9.Nxf4
= (0.04) Depth: 9/31 00:00:00 719kN
5.Bf4 d5 6.e3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 Nh5 8.Nh3 Nxf4 9.Nxf4
= (0.04) Depth: 9/31 00:00:00 765kN
5.Bf4 Nc6 6.Nf3 d5 7.e3 Bd7 8.Rb1 dxc4 9.Bxc4
= (-0.18) Depth: 10/31 00:00:00 1747kN
5.e4 c5 6.a3 cxd4 7.axb4 dxc3 8.Bd3 cxb2 9.Bxb2
= (0.08) Depth: 10/31 00:00:01 2418kN
5.e4 c5 6.a3 cxd4 7.axb4 dxc3 8.Bd3 cxb2 9.Bxb2
= (0.08) Depth: 10/31 00:00:01 2556kN
5.e4 d6 6.Nf3 e5 7.a3 Bxc3+ 8.bxc3 Qe7 9.Bd3
= (-0.05) Depth: 11/31 00:00:01 3879kN
5.Nf3 d5 6.e3 b6 7.cxd5 exd5 8.Bd3 Ba6
= (0.00) Depth: 11/31 00:00:01 5484kN
5.Nf3 d5 6.e3 b6 7.cxd5 exd5 8.Bd3 Ba6
= (0.00) Depth: 11/31 00:00:01 6102kN
5.Nf3 d5 6.e3 b6 7.a3 Bxc3+ 8.bxc3 dxc4 9.Bxc4
= (-0.15) Depth: 12/33 00:00:02 7761kN
5.e4 d6 6.Bd3 e5 7.Nge2 Nc6 8.d5 Nd4 9.Nxd4 exd4
= (-0.06) Depth: 12/33 00:00:02 9550kN
5.Bf4 Nc6 6.Nf3 d6 7.e3 Qe7 8.0-0-0 e5 9.Bg5 Bxc3 10.Qxc3
= (0.00) Depth: 12/33 00:00:04 15446kN
5.Bf4 Nc6 6.Nf3 d6 7.e3 Qe7 8.0-0-0 e5 9.Bg5 Bxc3 10.Qxc3
= (0.00) Depth: 12/33 00:00:04 15686kN
5.Bf4 Nc6 6.Nf3 d6 7.e3 Re8 8.0-0-0 Bd7 9.Bd3 e5
= (0.12) Depth: 13/37 00:00:06 22857kN
5.Bf4 Nc6 6.Nf3 d6 7.e3 Re8 8.0-0-0 Bd7 9.Bd3 e5
= (0.12) Depth: 13/37 00:00:06 24786kN
5.Bf4 Nc6 6.Nf3 d6 7.e3 Qe7 8.0-0-0 h6 9.Bg3 Bxc3 10.Qxc3
= (-0.03) Depth: 14/37 00:00:08 32520kN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.Ne2 Nc6 10.d5 Na5 11.0-0
= (0.17) Depth: 14/38 00:00:11 45532kN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.Ne2 Nc6 10.d5 Na5 11.0-0
= (0.17) Depth: 14/38 00:00:12 47466kN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7
= (0.17) Depth: 15/49 00:00:14 55815kN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7
= (0.17) Depth: 15/49 00:00:16 62394kN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.a4 a5 12.0-0
= (0.08) Depth: 16/49 00:00:21 85184kN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.a4 a5 12.0-0
= (0.08) Depth: 16/50 00:00:52 214mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.a4 a5 12.0-0 Bd7
= (0.11) Depth: 17/50 00:01:01 254mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.a4 a5 12.0-0 Bd7
= (0.11) Depth: 17/50 00:01:13 301mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Ba4 13.Qd2
= (0.15) Depth: 18/53 00:01:38 404mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Ba4 13.Qd2
= (0.15) Depth: 18/53 00:02:02 499mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Ba4 13.Qd2 Qe7
= (0.24) Depth: 19/53 00:03:19 815mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Ba4 13.Qd2 Qe7
= (0.24) Depth: 19/53 00:03:48 931mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Re8 13.Ng3 h6 14.f3
= (0.23) Depth: 20/54 00:05:22 1320mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Re8 13.Ng3 h6 14.f3
= (0.23) Depth: 20/54 00:06:51 1673mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Qc7 13.f3 Nh5 14.Be3 Rae8
= (0.24) Depth: 21/61 00:11:46 2876mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Nb6 11.0-0 Bd7 12.Rb1 Qc7 13.f3 Nh5 14.Be3 Rae8
= (0.24) Depth: 21/61 00:14:10 3450mN
5.e4 d6 6.e5 dxe5 7.dxe5 Ng4 8.a3 Bxc3+ 9.Qxc3 f6 10.exf6 Qxf6 11.Qxf6 Nxf6 12.Nf3 Nc6 13.c5 a5 14.Bd3 Nd5 15.0-0
+/= (0.26) Depth: 22/63 00:26:29 6485mN
5.e4 d6 6.e5 dxe5 7.dxe5 Ng4 8.a3 Bxc3+ 9.Qxc3 f6 10.exf6 Qxf6 11.Qxf6 Nxf6 12.Nf3 Nc6 13.c5 a5 14.Bd3 Nd5 15.0-0
+/= (0.26) Depth: 22/63 00:33:46 8201mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Re8 11.Rb1 b6 12.0-0 Nf8 13.f3 Bd7 14.Bg5 h6 15.Be3
= (0.24) Depth: 23/65 00:49:53 12227mN
5.e4 d6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 e5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 Nbd7 10.Ne2 Re8 11.Rb1 b6 12.0-0 Nf8 13.f3 Bd7 14.Bg5 h6 15.Be3
= (0.24) Depth: 23/65 01:09:26 17015mN
5.e4 d5 6.e5 Ne4 7.a3 Bxc3+ 8.bxc3 c5 9.Bd3 cxd4 10.cxd4 Nc6 11.Nf3 Qa5+ 12.Bd2 Nxd2 13.Qxd2 dxc4 14.Bxc4 b6 15.Rc1 Qxa3 16.d5 Nb4
= (0.11) Depth: 24/67 03:09:36 47149mN
5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 c5 7.dxc5 Qa5 8.Bxf6 gxf6 9.Nf3 Na6 10.g3 Nxc5 11.Bg2 Rb8 12.0-0 Bxc3 13.bxc3 b6 14.Qd2 Kg7 15.Nd4 Ba6
= (0.13) Depth: 24/67 05:53:11 88506mN
5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Nbd7 9.e3 e5 10.Bd3 exd4 11.exd4 c5 12.0-0-0 Ne4 13.Bxd8 Nxc3 14.bxc3 Rxd8 15.Nf3
= (0.15) Depth: 24/67 06:36:49 99297mN
5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Nbd7 9.e3 e5 10.Bd3 exd4 11.exd4 c5 12.0-0-0 Ne4 13.Bxd8 Nxc3 14.bxc3 Rxd8 15.Nf3
= (0.15) Depth: 24/67 07:58:56 119927mN
[Event "Nimzo Challenge"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.04.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Black "Houdini Pro 2.0C"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Annotator "Doe,John"]
[PlyCount "9"]
[EventDate "2012.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 O-O {0.10/32 31256} 5. a3 {0.15/24 28810}
*
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/P1N5/1PQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR b KQ - 0 5
Attachment: challenge.pgn (306B)
This is a normal classical Nimozo. Maybe Nelson should have accepted my proposed wager after all. I now think this will follow book lines for along time. I was hoping for a final conclusion of 5.e4. As a child I always liked this move, as white placed 4. Qc2 in order to prepare e4, and Black has not done anything to prevent it.
I strongly disagree with your conclusion. Following Houdini's d24 line, you'd be out of book after 12.O-O-O. And Zappa's fickleness suggests even more variability toward rarely played lines.
Either way, I am having too much fun to care, but it is always fun to keep track of book stuff.
I'll let Houdini think tomorrow morning before I head out to work. I feel like Bxc3 is a foregone conclusion, but I am not going to force it. Has Black ever played Be7 here?
I'll let Houdini think tomorrow morning before I head out to work. I feel like Bxc3 is a foregone conclusion, but I am not going to force it. Has Black ever played Be7 here?
![[fi]](/mwf/v12/flags/fi.png "Finland")
That's an anomaly. I get a negative score running Houdini in the position after 12. O-O-O, starting with -0.20 at depth 4 and never getting higher than -0.04 (though 12...Ne4 eventually fails low to 0.00).
Okay, but it's still the same conclusion. This line very probably exits book pretty quickly.
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/1bPP4/P1N5/1PQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR b KQ - 0 1
Analysis by Houdini 2.0c Pro x64:
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d5 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.g3 dxc4
= (-0.16) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 2kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d5 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.e3 Ne4 9.Bd3
= (-0.16) Depth: 7/15 00:00:00 4kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d5 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.e3 Ne4 9.Bd3 f5
= (-0.03) Depth: 8/18 00:00:00 12kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 b6 8.e4 d6 9.d5 Ne5 10.Nxe5 dxe5
= (-0.03) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 23kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3
= (0.03 --) Depth: 10/20 00:00:00 34kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 d5 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 exd5 10.Bd3 Qe7 11.0-0 Ne4 12.h3
= (0.06) Depth: 10/24 00:00:00 54kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 d5 8.e3 b6 9.cxd5 exd5 10.Bd3 Qe7 11.0-0 Ne4 12.h3
= (0.06) Depth: 11/24 00:00:00 79kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 h6 7.Nf3 d6 8.e3 b6 9.Bd3 Bb7 10.e4 Qe7 11.0-0 Nbd7
= (0.04) Depth: 12/25 00:00:00 236kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 h6 7.Nf3 d6 8.e3 b6 9.Bd3 Bb7 10.e4 Nbd7 11.0-0 Qe7 12.Be3 e5
= (0.04) Depth: 13/25 00:00:00 308kN
5...Bxc3+
= (-0.02 ++) Depth: 14/25 00:00:00 583kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d6 7.Nf3 Qe7 8.g4 d5 9.g5 Ne4 10.Bg2 Nc6 11.Bf4 Rd8 12.0-0 b6
= (0.00) Depth: 14/25 00:00:00 612kN
5...Bxc3+
= (-0.05 ++) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 1344kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d6 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.e3 e5 9.Bd3 Re8 10.dxe5 Nxe5 11.Nxe5 dxe5 12.0-0 e4 13.Be2 Bg4 14.Rd1 Qe7 15.Rb1 Bxe2 16.Qxe2
= (-0.02) Depth: 15/32 00:00:00 1513kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3
= (0.04 --) Depth: 16/32 00:00:00 2372kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d6 7.e4 Nc6 8.Bd3 e5 9.Ne2 h6 10.0-0 b6 11.h3 Qd7 12.d5 Na5 13.Be3 Bb7 14.Ng3
= (0.01) Depth: 16/32 00:00:00 2765kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qe7 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 Nc6 9.d5 Na5 10.Nf3 b6 11.0-0 Ba6 12.Qa2 h6 13.h3 d6 14.Be3 c5 15.Rad1 Bb7
= (0.06) Depth: 17/32 00:00:00 7228kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qe7 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 Nc6 9.Ne2 b6 10.0-0 d6 11.Be3 Ng4 12.Bd2 Bb7 13.h3 Nf6 14.Be3 Na5 15.Ng3
= (0.06) Depth: 18/32 00:00:01 10073kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qe7 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 Nc6 9.Ne2 b6 10.0-0 d6 11.Be3 Ng4 12.Bd2 Ba6 13.f3 Nf6 14.Rad1 Na5 15.Qa2 h6 16.dxe5 dxe5
= (0.03) Depth: 19/34 00:00:01 15753kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qe7 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 Nc6 9.Ne2 b6 10.0-0 d6 11.Be3 Ng4 12.Bd2 Ba6 13.f3 Nf6 14.Rad1 Na5 15.Qa2 h6 16.dxe5 dxe5
= (0.03) Depth: 20/34 00:00:02 24975kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qe7 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 d6 9.Ne2 Nc6 10.f3 b6 11.Be3 Na5 12.0-0 Ba6 13.Qa2 Qe6 14.d5 Qd7 15.Bg5 Qe7 16.Ng3 h6
= (0.01) Depth: 21/45 00:00:05 58233kN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Qe7 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 d6 9.Ne2 Nc6 10.f3 b6 11.Be3 Na5 12.Ng3 Ba6 13.Nf5 Qe6 14.Bg5 exd4 15.cxd4 Bxc4 16.d5 Bxd3 17.Qxd3 Qe5 18.0-0 h6 19.Bd2
= (0.05) Depth: 22/46 00:00:15 156mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Re8 7.Nf3 d6 8.e4 e5 9.Bd3 b6 10.0-0 Bb7 11.d5 Nbd7 12.Be3 Ng4 13.Bg5 Ngf6 14.Be3 Ng4
= (0.00) Depth: 23/46 00:00:35 361mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Re8 7.Nf3 d6 8.e4 e5 9.Bd3 b6 10.0-0 Bb7 11.d5 Nbd7 12.Be3 Ng4 13.Bg5 Ngf6 14.Be3 Ng4
= (0.00) Depth: 24/46 00:00:44 460mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 d6 7.e4 e5 8.Bd3 Nc6 9.Ne2 b6 10.0-0 h6 11.Be3 Ba6 12.Ng3 Ng4 13.Nf5 Nxe3 14.fxe3 Ne7 15.dxe5 dxe5 16.Rad1 Nxf5 17.exf5 Qg5 18.Rf3 Rad8 19.Rg3 Qe7
= (0.02) Depth: 25/53 00:02:27 1509mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 d6 8.e4 e5 9.Be3 Qe8 10.Bd3 Ng4 11.0-0 Nxe3 12.fxe3 f6 13.Qe2 Na5 14.Nh4 Qa4 15.Nf5 Bxf5 16.exf5 Qc6 17.Qa2 Kh8 18.Rab1 e4 19.Be2 b6 20.Rf4 Rae8
= (0.02) Depth: 26/58 00:06:35 4136mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 Re8 8.e4 e5 9.Be3 Ng4 10.Bd3 Nxe3 11.fxe3 d6 12.0-0 Qe7 13.Rab1 f6 14.Qd2 a6 15.Qf2 Na5 16.Nd2 Be6 17.Be2 Qf7 18.d5 Bd7 19.Qg3 b6 20.Bg4 Bxg4 21.Qxg4 Qg6
= (0.00) Depth: 27/59 00:09:43 6144mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 Re8 8.e4 e5 9.Be3 Ng4 10.Bd3 Nxe3 11.fxe3 d6 12.0-0 Qe7 13.Rab1 f6 14.Qa2 Kh8 15.Qe2 b6 16.Nh4 Na5 17.Nf5 Bxf5 18.Rxf5 Qf7 19.Rh5 Kg8 20.Rh3 c6 21.Rg3 Rf8 22.a4 g6 23.Rf3 Kg7
= (0.01) Depth: 28/59 00:12:12 7711mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 Re8 8.e4 e5 9.Bd3 exd4 10.cxd4 d5 11.e5 dxc4 12.Qxc4 Be6 13.Qc5 Bd5 14.Be3 Ng4 15.Rd1 Rb8 16.0-0 Bxf3 17.gxf3 Qh4 18.fxg4 Qxg4+ 19.Kh1 Qf3+ 20.Kg1 Qg4+ 21.Kh1
= (0.00) Depth: 29/64 00:24:56 16001mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Nc6 7.Nf3 Re8 8.e4 e5 9.Bd3 exd4 10.cxd4 d5 11.e5 dxc4 12.Qxc4 Be6 13.Qc5 Bd5 14.Be3 Ng4 15.Rd1 Rb8 16.0-0 Bxf3 17.gxf3 Qh4 18.fxg4 Qxg4+ 19.Kh1 Qf3+ 20.Kg1 Qg4+ 21.Kh1
= (0.00) Depth: 30/64 00:34:36 22318mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.b3 d6 9.f3 Nbd7 10.Nh3 c5 11.Be2 cxd4 12.exd4 Rc8 13.a4 e5 14.dxe5 Nxe5 15.0-0 Re8 16.Re1 d5 17.Bf4 Qd6 18.Rad1 Qc5+ 19.Be3 Qc7 20.Bf4 Qc5+ 21.Be3
= (0.00) Depth: 31/72 05:01:58 198401mN
5...Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 b6 7.e3 Bb7 8.b3 d6 9.f3 Nbd7 10.Nh3 c5 11.Be2 cxd4 12.exd4 Rc8 13.a4 e5 14.dxe5 Nxe5 15.0-0 Re8 16.Re1 d5 17.Bf4 Qd6 18.Rad1 Qc5+ 19.Be3 Qc7 20.Bf4 Qc5+ 21.Be3
= (0.00) Depth: 32/72 06:20:36 250415mN
[Event "Nimzo Challenge"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.04.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Black "Houdini Pro 2.0C"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Annotator "Doe,John"]
[PlyCount "10"]
[EventDate "2012.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 O-O {0.10/32 31256} 5. a3 {0.15/24 28810}
Bxc3+ {0.00/32 35530} *
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/2PP4/P1b5/1PQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR w KQ - 0 6
Attachment: challenge.pgn (331B)
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/2PP4/P1b5/1PQ1PPPP/R1B1KBNR w KQ - 0 1
Analysis by Zappa Mexico II 64:
6.Qxc3 d5 7.g3 Nc6 8.Nf3 Ne4 9.Qd3 Bd7
= (-0.15) Depth: 10/31 00:00:00 768kN
6.Qxc3 d5 7.g3 Nc6 8.Nf3 Ne4 9.Qd3
= (-0.15) Depth: 10/31 00:00:00 897kN
6.Qxc3 Ne4 7.Qd3 d5 8.g3 Nc6 9.Nf3 Bd7
= (-0.03) Depth: 11/31 00:00:00 2205kN
6.Qxc3 Ne4 7.Qd3 d5 8.g3 Nc6 9.Nf3 Bd7
= (-0.03) Depth: 11/31 00:00:00 2250kN
6.Qxc3 Ne4 7.Qc2 f5 8.Nf3 d6 9.e3 Bd7 10.Bd3
= (-0.09) Depth: 12/33 00:00:01 4148kN
6.Qxc3 Ne4 7.Qc2 f5 8.Nf3 d6 9.e3 Bd7 10.Bd3
= (-0.09) Depth: 12/33 00:00:01 5729kN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Nf3 Ne4 8.Qc2 f5 9.e3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7
= (-0.08) Depth: 13/35 00:00:03 11121kN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Nf3 Ne4 8.Qc2 f5 9.e3 b6 10.Bd3 Bb7
= (-0.08) Depth: 13/35 00:00:03 11246kN
6.Qxc3 Ne4 7.Qc2 f5 8.e3 b6 9.Bd3 Bb7 10.Ne2 Qh4 11.Nf4
= (-0.08) Depth: 14/35 00:00:05 19808kN
6.Qxc3 Ne4 7.Qc2 f5 8.e3 b6 9.Bd3 Bb7 10.Ne2 Qh4 11.Nf4
= (-0.08) Depth: 14/36 00:00:08 31058kN
6.Qxc3 b6 7.Bg5 Bb7 8.f3 h6 9.Bh4 c5 10.e3 Nc6 11.Bd3 cxd4 12.exd4
= (0.03) Depth: 15/49 00:00:18 75759kN
6.Qxc3 b6 7.Bg5 Bb7 8.f3 h6 9.Bh4 c5 10.e3 Nc6 11.Bd3 cxd4 12.exd4
= (0.03) Depth: 16/49 00:00:19 76363kN
6.Qxc3 b6 7.Bg5 Bb7 8.f3 h6 9.Bh4 c5 10.e3 Nc6 11.Bd3 d5 12.Ne2 dxc4 13.Qxc4
= (0.01) Depth: 16/49 00:00:27 110mN
6.Qxc3 b6 7.Bg5 Bb7 8.f3 h6 9.Bh4 c5 10.e3 Nc6 11.Bd3 d5 12.Ne2 dxc4 13.Qxc4
= (0.01) Depth: 16/49 00:00:28 116mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 Nbd7 8.e3 e5 9.Bd3 h6 10.Bh4 exd4 11.exd4 g5 12.Bg3 Re8+ 13.Ne2
= (0.04) Depth: 17/49 00:00:50 209mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 Nbd7 8.e3 e5 9.Bd3 h6 10.Bh4 exd4 11.exd4 g5 12.Bg3 Re8+ 13.Ne2
= (0.04) Depth: 17/49 00:00:51 214mN
6.Qxc3 d5 7.Nf3 dxc4 8.Qxc4 Bd7 9.Bg5 Bc6 10.Ne5 Bd5 11.Qc3 Nbd7 12.Nxd7 Qxd7 13.Bxf6 gxf6 14.Rc1
= (0.07) Depth: 18/49 00:02:15 571mN
6.Qxc3 d5 7.Nf3 dxc4 8.Qxc4 Bd7 9.Bg5 Bc6 10.Ne5 Bd5 11.Qc3 Nbd7 12.Nxd7 Qxd7 13.Bxf6 gxf6 14.Rc1
= (0.07) Depth: 18/49 00:02:22 597mN
6.Qxc3 d5 7.Bg5 dxc4 8.Qxc4 h6 9.Bh4 Bd7 10.Rc1 Bc6 11.f3 Nbd7 12.e4 Nb6 13.Qc5 Na4
= (0.14) Depth: 19/57 00:03:58 1003mN
6.Qxc3 d5 7.Bg5 dxc4 8.Qxc4 h6 9.Bh4 Bd7 10.Rc1 Bc6 11.f3 Nbd7 12.e4 Nb6 13.Qc5 Na4
= (0.14) Depth: 19/57 00:04:02 1019mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Re8 9.e3 e5 10.dxe5 dxe5 11.Bd3 Nc6 12.0-0-0 Qe7 13.Bc2 Ne4 14.Bxe7 Nxc3 15.bxc3 Rxe7
= (0.05) Depth: 20/59 00:12:19 3028mN
6.bxc3 d5 7.Bg5 dxc4 8.Nf3 c5 9.e3 cxd4 10.exd4 Qc7 11.Bxf6 gxf6 12.Nd2 e5 13.d5 b5 14.a4 Qb7 15.axb5 Qxd5
= (0.10) Depth: 20/59 00:17:06 4199mN
6.bxc3 d5 7.Bg5 dxc4 8.Nf3 c5 9.e3 cxd4 10.exd4 Qc7 11.Bxf6 gxf6 12.Nd2 e5 13.d5 b5 14.a4 Qb7 15.axb5 Qxd5
= (0.10) Depth: 20/59 00:17:07 4204mN
6.bxc3 d5 7.Nf3 c5 8.Bg5 dxc4 9.e3 cxd4 10.exd4 Qc7 11.Qe2 Bd7 12.Qxc4 Bc6 13.Ne5 b5 14.Qd3 Nbd7 15.Nxc6 Qxc6
= (0.07) Depth: 21/61 00:25:39 6310mN
6.bxc3 d5 7.Nf3 c5 8.Bg5 dxc4 9.e3 cxd4 10.exd4 Qc7 11.Qe2 Bd7 12.Qxc4 Bc6 13.Ne5 b5 14.Qd3 Nbd7 15.Nxc6 Qxc6
= (0.07) Depth: 21/61 00:25:48 6345mN
6.bxc3 d5 7.Nf3 c5 8.Bf4 cxd4 9.cxd4 Nc6 10.e3 Qa5+ 11.Nd2 Re8 12.Be2 e5 13.dxe5 Nxe5 14.0-0 Bg4 15.f3 Bf5 16.Qxf5 Qxd2
= (0.08) Depth: 22/63 00:40:58 10150mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Re8 9.f4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 c5 11.e3 Qc7 12.Bd3 cxd4 13.Nxd4 e5 14.fxe5 dxe5 15.Nb5
= (0.18) Depth: 22/63 00:57:07 14125mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Re8 9.f4 Nbd7 10.Nf3 c5 11.e3 Qc7 12.Bd3 cxd4 13.Nxd4 e5 14.fxe5 dxe5 15.Nb5
= (0.18) Depth: 22/63 00:57:13 14147mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 Re8 8.f4 b6 9.Nf3 Bb7 10.e3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 c5 12.0-0 Qc7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Nd2 Reb8 15.e4 h6
= (0.19) Depth: 23/65 01:23:23 20744mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 Re8 8.f4 b6 9.Nf3 Bb7 10.e3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 c5 12.0-0 Qc7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Nd2 Reb8 15.e4 h6
= (0.19) Depth: 23/65 01:25:42 21320mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 Re8 8.f4 b6 9.Nf3 Bb7 10.e3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 c5 12.0-0 Qc7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Nd2 Qc6 15.e4 d5 16.cxd5 exd5 17.Bxf6
= (0.12) Depth: 24/66 01:56:03 29051mN
6.Qxc3 d6 7.Bg5 Re8 8.f4 b6 9.Nf3 Bb7 10.e3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 c5 12.0-0 Qc7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Nd2 Qc6 15.e4 d5 16.cxd5 exd5 17.Bxf6
= (0.12) Depth: 24/67 02:15:28 34028mN
6.Qxc3 Re8 7.Bg5 d6 8.f4 b6 9.Nf3 Bb7 10.e3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 c5 12.0-0 Qc7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Nd2 e5 15.Bf5 exf4 16.exf4
= (0.12) Depth: 25/69 05:25:54 81702mN
6.Qxc3 Re8 7.Bg5 d6 8.f4 b6 9.Nf3 Bb7 10.e3 Nbd7 11.Bd3 c5 12.0-0 Qc7 13.dxc5 bxc5 14.Nd2 e5 15.Bf5 exf4 16.exf4
= (0.12) Depth: 25/69 05:36:01 84262mN
[Event "Nimzo Challenge"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2012.04.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Zappa Mexico II"]
[Black "Houdini Pro 2.0C"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Annotator "Doe,John"]
[PlyCount "11"]
[EventDate "2012.??.??"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Qc2 O-O {0.10/32 31256} 5. a3 {0.15/24 28810}
Bxc3+ {0.00/32 35530} 6. Qxc3 {0.12/25 34076} *
rnbq1rk1/pppp1ppp/4pn2/8/2PP4/P1Q5/1P2PPPP/R1B1KBNR b KQ - 0 6
Attachment: challenge.pgn (351B)
Did you do the opening yourself?
Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill