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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: 4.4 NATIONAL12 vs DazzleKnight2010 1/2 - 1/2
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- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-01 06:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves ""]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-01 07:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/5N2/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 1

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3"]
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-01 07:21
looking forward to a good game,best of luck Dazzle.
Parent - By DazzleKnight2010 (**) Date 2012-04-01 18:05
All the best my friend. May the best player win!
DK.
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-04-01 20:19
Good luck to you both.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-04-01 17:40
Good luck to both players :smile:
Parent - By DazzleKnight2010 (**) Date 2012-04-01 18:06
Thank you. All the best to you too with your battles!!
DK.
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-01 18:00
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/8/5N2/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 2

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 14 hours, 14 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-01 18:20
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/2P5/5N2/PP1PPPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 2

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 14 hours, 14 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-01 20:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rnbqkb1r/p1pppppp/1p3n2/8/2P5/5N2/PP1PPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6"]
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-04-01 20:32
White with 55.1% and 33.4% draws.
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-01 20:50
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rnbqkb1r/p1pppppp/1p3n2/8/2P5/5NP1/PP1PPP1P/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 3

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 13 hours, 18 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-02 05:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rn1qkb1r/pbpppppp/1p3n2/8/2P5/5NP1/PP1PPP1P/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 4

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3 Bb7"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-02 07:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rn1qkb1r/pbpppppp/1p3n2/8/2P5/5NP1/PP1PPPBP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 0 4

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "29 days, 22 hours, 57 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3 Bb7 4.Bg2"]
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-04-02 11:58
Black with 44.6% and 35.5% draws.
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-02 12:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rn1qkb1r/pbpp1ppp/1p2pn2/8/2P5/5NP1/PP1PPPBP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 0 5

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "29 days, 22 hours, 57 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 1 hours, 49 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3 Bb7 4.Bg2 e6"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-02 14:40
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rn1qkb1r/pbpp1ppp/1p2pn2/8/2P5/5NP1/PP1PPPBP/RNBQ1RK1 b kq - 0 5

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "29 days, 21 hours, 41 minutes"]
[BlackTime "29 days, 1 hours, 49 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3 Bb7 4.Bg2 e6 5.O-O"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-04-02 19:00
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "NATIONAL12"]
[Black "DazzleKnight2010"]

rn1qk2r/pbppbppp/1p2pn2/8/2P5/5NP1/PP1PPPBP/RNBQ1RK1 w kq - 0 6

Game 189185. In progress
[WhiteTime "29 days, 21 hours, 41 minutes"]
[BlackTime "28 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3 Bb7 4.Bg2 e6 5.O-O Be7"]
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-04-02 22:24
White with 56.7% and 36.5% draws.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 00:07
i try to get away from main lines but the best move takes me back into them.I blame Nelson with his vast book its ruining my chess although i love his knowledge as much as the next man.
Maybe i am just a crap chess player.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-04-03 00:21

>Maybe i am just a crap chess player


dont say stupid things Paul,you are a strong player,and you showed us...
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 00:29
guys seem always to play well against me no matter how devious i am.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-04-03 00:35
that doesnt mean you are a crap player Paul,that simply can mean you play against also strong player...or maybe if some of them arent strong players,sometimes weaker players can play very strong

i remember one game that Jaan Eslon played and lost against a very weak player,and he lost...and was in a OTB tournament,not correspondence,and was a lot of time ago(no cheats with computers),and against a 'boy' not aged more than 14-15 years,without ELO
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 00:49
Thanks for your kind reply,I played a number of unusual openings with you before tournament,openings in which i had had good results against some players playing in WBCCC .You managed to come up with great lines in all of them.You never beat me but managed to get a draw in all cases.

I think you will do well in this tournament,

Rember i said this a long time ago when you were reluctant to enter.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-04-03 00:56
also thanks to you for your also kind reply Paul

i was reluctant for my obsolete computer,and because even if im in theoric lines,im always trying to find my own way...i said you privately how i 'play chess',and how i analize(and methods i use),and as you can see,is very difficult do that with my computer

when we played our games,i just tried to find new ways to improve 'my side' playing,but i never was able to beat you :cry:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 00:36
Thats the problem,when guys think you are good they spend more time on your play,i cannot win unless they make even small errors.
Maybe i am just having a bad night like Mark did.:smile:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-04-03 00:38
well,when someone plays strong,people try to win him,and punish him even more,compared to a weaker player
Parent - - By Schachmatt (****) [us] Date 2012-04-03 01:02
Against a fianchetto system, Black has many options, but so does White.  Generally the positions do not become critical until the late opening.  Play the best moves and pose as many problems as possible for your opponent and the results will work out.
Parent - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-04-03 01:12
I agree. These lines never show their true face until midlegame.

I would prefer white side, though
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 01:13
Lets be honest who knows what is best move,I always played 1.e4 as a number of you know and admit i feal much happier in these types of games,My game against you Matt was a shock to my system and i had to fight like hell to get the draw.
Parent - - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 10:54
I seem to be having those bad nights more often these days.

One thing for sure Paul you are one of the best CC around no doubt about that.
Parent - - By Scott (****) Date 2012-04-03 14:06
I battle depression daily Mark, it helps a lot to talk to my friends here. We are here for you Mark.
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 15:34
Thank you Scott, it does help to have friends here.
Parent - By Wrath of the Titans (****) [sa] Date 2012-04-03 15:38
I'm shock to hear this from you Scott. :confused:
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-04-03 01:46
I don't understand why my book, which you don't have, and your opponents don't have, could be ruining your chess!  As we have discussed many times my statistics have value, but are not anywhere close to definitive. 

When I say a position is looking drawish, all I am doing is anticipating what is going to be the general consensus anyway in a few moves. 

I don't think I am having much influence on people's strategies, and certainly not yours.  I'll tell you what has ruined your chess, though: both Houdini and Aquarium.  One is a tremendously powerful program that almost never makes big mistakes.  The other is a revolutionary product that is essential for correspondence play.  Between the two of them the quality of play has elevated tremendously, resulting in much higher draw-rates.  It is just very hard to win now unless you are up against an incompetent.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-03 01:56 Edited 2012-04-03 11:41
unless you are up against an incompetent(Nelson)

must admit you are right on this.

Welcome lines which have yet to be explored by strong engines and big hardware.Any ideas Nelson.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-04-03 02:02
why you dont try King Gambit?  :lol:

seems that Vas busted it :lol::lol: :yell::yell:

just joking Paul

i havent a very powerful book,but why you dont try to analize any gambit?that isnt a joke,im telling true
Parent - By Schachmatt (****) [us] Date 2012-04-03 02:38
Generally, you're best off finding new ideas in main line positions.  It helps if you know the history of the variation, how it evolved; some ideas are misassessed or forgotten.  And it is increasingly difficult to find a completely original concept before move 15.  Often times when an opponent makes a second-rate move, that may give you more leverage to find a creative and plausible idea.  Not to mention hypermodern prophylactic ways of playing positions as I did against you Paul, but obviously these entail more risk, you have to know how to transition to other structures or play into a somewhat worse position than normal.  I've had no problems finding new and stout ideas in well established positions, even in well established lines that have been played for decades, yet generally the more an opening has been played, the deeper you have to look.  In some lines things begin to branch out around move 12, and then you find new and less developed ideas, in any system.  In corr, you are guaranteed a game of chess unless if you have Black and you play main lines --- which means that White can force things to a draw given he can thread his way through theory and the middlegame ---- to play for a win as Black, basically you have to play a position in the Modern defenses.  You just have to know the ideas for both sides, and what positions are equal, and which ones there is still play... There exist many 'equal' positions that are quite dynamically balanced and far from simple.

Really the problem points for White playing 1 e4 in current theory is B90 Najdorf, Petroff, Marshall, and the Berlin is really complicated and nuanced, but this is typical of the Spanish game.  And in this tournament ppipper's French.  Yet I am sure there are ideas in all of these because I have found some, of those lines though, the Petroff I think the hardest to find new ideas because it is difficult to play for advantage in position with one open file.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-04-03 12:18
How I read the above comment is "you need a really big book to come up with seldom-tried ideas."
Parent - - By Kappatoo (****) [de] Date 2012-04-06 14:04
Are you aware that you played almost this exact opening line before? You were white in that game, but played the black side of this line.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-06 15:20
i cant trace it at the moment.
Parent - - By Kappatoo (****) [de] Date 2012-04-06 15:30
This is how your game against keoki010 went:
1.f4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 c5 4.b3 g6 5.Bb2 Bg7 6.Be2 O-O 7.O-O Nc6
8.Ne5 Qc7 9.Nxc6 Qxc6 (...)
r1b2rk1/pp2ppbp/2q2np1/2pp4/5P2/1P2P3/PBPPB1PP/RN1Q1RK1 w - -


And here is the position after move 9 from white in the current game:
rn1q1rk1/pbppbppp/1p2p3/8/2PP4/2Q2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1B2RK1 b - - 0 9


Black would have only had to play ...f5 to reach the same position with colors reversed (and a tempo down).
Parent - By Scott (****) Date 2012-04-06 15:41
That's pretty good Kappatoo! Most players wouldn't have noticed that. I can see now why you're so strong of chess player.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-06 15:57
must admit i hadn't noticed,shows keoki's play was solid.:smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-04-06 22:32
Impressive finding Kappatoo, sometimes I have problems finding transpositions in my analysis of a chess game, and you manage this :surprised:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-04-06 22:49
this game was not a transposition,Kappatoo just said i was playing keoki's moves as black in a white position,against one of my Birds openings(practice games from a few months ago which i had dismissed from my mind).
I dont normally play 1.Nf3 and really wanted to play 1.d4 but looking at Dazzle play against this in his previous game i was trying to work out how i could avoid a Grunfeld.
I ended up in a Queens Indian in which i am hoping in a line for white stronger than  Indrajit SG played against me.Time will tell.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-04-06 22:59
Yes, but it could have been a transposition with colors reversed and a side a tempo down. It is very interesting because the side with an extra tempo can give it away if it sees that it can reach an advantageous line in the position, and can use the analysis of the old game in this one (probably far-fetched and unlikely, but it's there.)
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-04-03 06:35

>[Aquarium] is a revolutionary product that is essential for correspondence play.


I think it's the first time we're in full disagreement about something :smile:

I also haven't used Houdini in this season of the WBCCC, and plan to continue like this.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-04-03 12:20
Hey, I don't use it either, but I am not a correspondence player!

As for Houdini, it isn't Houdini per se as much as the current crop of top engines.  Whatever engines you use are vastly stronger than those of four or five years ago.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-04-03 20:56

>As for Houdini, it isn't Houdini per se as much as the current crop of top engines.  Whatever engines you use are vastly stronger than those of four or five years ago.


Oh yes, I tried an experiment in where I used old engines to analyze a game, and lost miserably against a Bird opening.

Still, I find interesting that engines from that time are still sometimes critical for analysis, such as Naum 4.2 and Zappa Mexico II, without which I'd have had scored less half points in several of my games.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: 4.4 NATIONAL12 vs DazzleKnight2010 1/2 - 1/2
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