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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Crafty 2.7 Will it be a partial Rybka Clone?
- - By RFK (Gold) Date 2008-01-26 19:03
The way things are going and the way Bob Hyatt's thinking processes is heading, these crazy chaotic days, one never really knows what to expect. But, just for arguments sake, lets say that it is a compulation of Rybka and Crafty, what can Vas do? What is his recourse. Could he bring this issue to the fictitious head of a Computer Chess Engine Federation- or, just roll over and hope that not every computer chess programmer is born again into this forsake cloning hoopla.

sidserious- I hope this enough of a Rybka issue to warrant it's staying where it is!  
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-01-26 19:32
Dr. Hyatt has been a major figure in the computer chess world for a long time and the idea that he would clone another engine is beyond silly. Some of the new ideas in the Rybka beta will no doubt contribute to making chess engines stronger, just as numerous ideas from many other people have contributed to previous increases in engine strength.
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2008-01-27 00:47
How can you possible speak for Dr. Hyatt- That is beyond me unless you and he are that close in friendship-otherwise your statement is presumptuous. But then I never said he did.

But what if-that magic what "if" -entertained by all conceptual, creative minds. Your response negates a willingness to dialogue by avoiding the last part of my quarry. But your contribution is appreciated. Thanks, and you have a good day!

sidserious-
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-01-27 04:17 Edited 2008-01-27 04:22
Dr. Hyatt's engine has been around a long time and has never been accused of being a clone of anything (although many engines have been found to have copied parts of Crafty). When you also consider that he publishes the source code for Crafty shortly after its implemented, your accusation becomes even more bizarre.

The basic problem here is that you seem not to understand what a clone is. An engine that uses the same concepts as another engine is NOT a clone. Algorithms are protected only by secrecy or patent. Once they are out in the wild, everyone is free to use them as they deem appropriate.
Parent - - By Permanent Brain (*****) Date 2008-01-27 04:30
I'm not a programmer but I have read a statement of someone who (I guess) is a chess programmer, who explained that Strelka's source does not contain or reveal any new ideas, only improved usage of well known ideas. If it's true what he writes (or as I understand it), then Rybka has not to fear anything substantial in terms of being cloned. - Of course, I am not sure about that because I have only rough ideas of all that stuff. Anyway, that posting is in CCC:

http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=170791&highlight=#170791
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) Date 2008-01-27 04:39
These claims are disputed by many very knowledgeable people concerning it "clearly" being based on Fruit.  Vas has directly looked at the clone and said that it obviously contains parts of Rybka that are unique to Rybka
Parent - By Uri Blass (*****) Date 2008-01-27 19:54
I think that this is simply wrong.
Strelka and Rybka clearly contain new ideas.
Improved usage of well known idea can also be considered as a new idea.

Uri
Parent - - By RFK (Gold) Date 2008-01-27 19:21 Edited 2008-01-27 19:30
Well, the man is espousing the freedom to clone!!! :-) Or, did you miss that one, Alan! Dr Hyatt, Alan, isn't holier than thou. When he goes on record supporting cloning than he, because of his status, changes the playing field.
Parent - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2008-01-27 20:52
I'm sure that I haven't missed Dr. Hyatt's espousing the freedom to clone because he has been consistently opposed to clones for many years now. He has been skeptical about the node count reported by Rybka and has espoused the desire to understand the algorithms used in Rybka. This is an entirely different kettle of fish as far as I'm concerned.

Going forward, everyone gives Vas credit for the ideas revealed in the Strelka source code. Please note that if these exact same ideas were revealed in a research paper, there would be no cause for complaint. You are obviously having problems separating the ideas from the improperly and illegally distributed Strelka source code. Both came from Vas, but one is protected and the other is not. No doubt Vas will put much greater effort into maintaining secrecy in future releases.

Regards,
Alan
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / Crafty 2.7 Will it be a partial Rybka Clone?

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