Games 3 and 4 will start Sunday 1st April 1am GMT. This ensures everyone's games start on a weekend.
No Name Loc Total Result Name Loc Total
1 DAVID_EVANS, (5) 2281 [1.5] : ULY, (6) 2279 [1.5]
2 PPIPPER, (1) 2509 [1] : PRODIGYX, (19) [1.5]
3 ARMAGEDDONX, (16) 2082 [1] : NATIONAL12, (2) 2380 [1]
4 SEBASTIAN_BOEHME, (3) 2358 [1] : SCOTT_NICHOLS, (15) 2084 [1]
5 DAZZLEKNIGHT2010, (20) [1] : RUBEN_COMES, (4) 2347 [1]
6 INDRAJIT_SG, (12) 2136 [1] : MARK_ELDRIDGE, (8) 2176 [1]
7 KEOKI010, (9) 2169 [1] : BARNARD, (11) 2150 [1]
8 SCHACHMATT, (14) 2125 [1] : OMPRAKASH, (10) 2162 [1]
9 DEKA, (18) 2006 [.5] : NATMAKU, (13) 2127 [1]
No Name Loc Total Result Name Loc Total
1 PRODIGYX, (19) [1.5] : DAVID_EVANS, (5) 2281 [1.5]
2 ULY, (6) 2279 [1.5] : SEBASTIAN_BOEHME, (3) 2358 [1]
3 SCOTT_NICHOLS, (15) 2084 [1] : PPIPPER, (1) 2509 [1]
4 NATIONAL12, (2) 2380 [1] : DAZZLEKNIGHT2010, (20) [1]
5 RUBEN_COMES, (4) 2347 [1] : ARMAGEDDONX, (16) 2082 [1]
6 MARK_ELDRIDGE, (8) 2176 [1] : SCHACHMATT, (14) 2125 [1]
7 NATMAKU, (13) 2127 [1] : KEOKI010, (9) 2169 [1]
8 OMPRAKASH, (10) 2162 [1] : INDRAJIT_SG, (12) 2136 [1]
9 BARNARD, (11) 2150 [1] : DEKA, (18) 2006 [.5]
![[nl]](/mwf/v12/flags/nl.png "Netherlands")
Is there already a pgn with the collected games of round 1-2?
i think there isnt,but maybe im wrong
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
I did an engine/game correlation after 2 rounds using the let's check function in Fritz13, standard analysis, 0/5 s min/max for all games:
Seed number same as in pairings above and common opening moves were excluded (moves not given an engine assessment were not considered).
E/G Corr Seed
0.672 DAVID_EVANS,
0.582 ULY
0.715 PRODIGYX
0.450 PPIPPER
0.547 NATIONAL12
0.467 SEBASTIAN_BOEHME
0.640 RUBEN_COMES
0.517 GARVIN_GRAY
0.625 MARK_ELDRIDGE
0.612 KEOKI010
0.740 OMPRAKASH
0.784 BARNARD
0.525 INDRAJIT_SG
0.374 NATMAKU
0.683 SCHACHMATT
0.650 SCOTT_NICHOLS
0.626 ARMAGEDDONX
0.670 DAZZLEKNIGHT2010
0.424 DEKA
0.454 THEHUG
E/G Corr = (mpc1 + mpc2) / tm where
m = moves [total - common*]
pc = percent
tm = (m1 + m2)
common* = not engine-analyzed
Anyway, my formulas are right, it's possible I made a numbers error, but on checking the numbers make sense.
I excluded the Marshall game from my analysis as that game never left theory. I will guess top GM games would have avg E/G output of approximately .55-60 but will check this sometime. These values in part depend on the position of course. natmaku-ppipper had the lowest Engine/Game (move) Correspondence in part because the positions were closed so there may have been many viable options possible in more positions than is normal.
EDIT: by the way, a very rough E/G Corr avg. value for this tournament is .588, if you sum the E/G values / # participants.
Seed number same as in pairings above and common opening moves were excluded (moves not given an engine assessment were not considered).
E/G Corr Seed
0.672 DAVID_EVANS,
0.582 ULY
0.715 PRODIGYX
0.450 PPIPPER
0.547 NATIONAL12
0.467 SEBASTIAN_BOEHME
0.640 RUBEN_COMES
0.517 GARVIN_GRAY
0.625 MARK_ELDRIDGE
0.612 KEOKI010
0.740 OMPRAKASH
0.784 BARNARD
0.525 INDRAJIT_SG
0.374 NATMAKU
0.683 SCHACHMATT
0.650 SCOTT_NICHOLS
0.626 ARMAGEDDONX
0.670 DAZZLEKNIGHT2010
0.424 DEKA
0.454 THEHUG
E/G Corr = (mpc1 + mpc2) / tm where
m = moves [total - common*]
pc = percent
tm = (m1 + m2)
common* = not engine-analyzed
Anyway, my formulas are right, it's possible I made a numbers error, but on checking the numbers make sense.
I excluded the Marshall game from my analysis as that game never left theory. I will guess top GM games would have avg E/G output of approximately .55-60 but will check this sometime. These values in part depend on the position of course. natmaku-ppipper had the lowest Engine/Game (move) Correspondence in part because the positions were closed so there may have been many viable options possible in more positions than is normal.
EDIT: by the way, a very rough E/G Corr avg. value for this tournament is .588, if you sum the E/G values / # participants.
![[mx]](/mwf/v12/flags/mx.png "Mexico")
Whoa! I jumped from my seat when I appeared as the second most engine-like player, only to realize they were not ordered by number.
It's a very interesting test, here's them ordered from highest to lowest:
0.784 BARNARD
0.740 OMPRAKASH
0.715 PRODIGYX
0.683 SCHACHMATT
0.672 DAVID_EVANS,
0.670 DAZZLEKNIGHT2010
0.650 SCOTT_NICHOLS
0.640 RUBEN_COMES
0.626 ARMAGEDDONX
0.625 MARK_ELDRIDGE
0.612 KEOKI010
0.582 ULY
0.547 NATIONAL12
0.525 INDRAJIT_SG
0.517 GARVIN_GRAY
0.467 SEBASTIAN_BOEHME
0.454 THEHUG
0.450 PPIPPER
0.424 DEKA
0.374 NATMAKU
It's a very interesting test, here's them ordered from highest to lowest:
0.784 BARNARD
0.740 OMPRAKASH
0.715 PRODIGYX
0.683 SCHACHMATT
0.672 DAVID_EVANS,
0.670 DAZZLEKNIGHT2010
0.650 SCOTT_NICHOLS
0.640 RUBEN_COMES
0.626 ARMAGEDDONX
0.625 MARK_ELDRIDGE
0.612 KEOKI010
0.582 ULY
0.547 NATIONAL12
0.525 INDRAJIT_SG
0.517 GARVIN_GRAY
0.467 SEBASTIAN_BOEHME
0.454 THEHUG
0.450 PPIPPER
0.424 DEKA
0.374 NATMAKU
ordered by position in the tournament according to the crosstable and then by rating.
Okay, sorry about the "randomly" part.
the way you did it is a little bit neater anyway
![[in]](/mwf/v12/flags/in.png "India")
Oh No not again with you as black 
Om,when we will play,what colour would you will preffer to play?
Doesnot matter much to me.
english attack, yummy
ruy lopez, yummy
okay, given my words of confidence my opponent won't play those lines so i don't have to prepare anything.
I will play what ever You want.
it would be nice to refute the marshall gambit. this would please Michael Adams.
this would please Michael Adams.
Ok done. I will play Marshall.
me 2nd !!!!!
me 1st
by the way, ppipper has played the most moves [minus common book moves] with 101, followed by natmaku 97, moi (91), and Scott with 83, whereas indrajit_sg has played a paltry 42.
Whats this number ???
total moves played first two rounds minus common book moves
number between 0-1 refers to engine/game correspondence.
number between 0-1 refers to engine/game correspondence.
So the number between 0-1 gives a sort of correlation - am I right? Closer a value to 1 - that means the moves are similar to book moves?
closer to 1, higher correspondence between moves played in the game and the move(s) an engine would have selected - this output is given as a function of fritz 13 let's check standard analysis.
sorry,but i dont understand anything...what that list means?...just explain for a dummy (me)
engine/ game correspondence value --- it's between 0 - 1, multiply by 100 for percentage.
the engine used for the analysis was critter 1.4 on weak hardware, running on 5 s --- however the let's check feature includes analyses from the online dbs (some CB online server somewhere), I do not know how the values are obtained for E/G correspondence for a single player on a single game --- if these Engine values are specific to the move preferred by my engine or by all engines that have assessed the position --- the E/G value is a statistic given at the end of the let's check process.
So basically if I chose all my non-opening moves using the top choice of critter 1.4 on my weak hardware for my WBCCC games, I may have an engine/game correspondence value of 1 with respect to the critter 1.4 engine.
Most of the positions in the games played in this tournament had never been analyzed before, but a few in the late opening, early middlegame have, and it seems a few players or spectators did use the let's check feature during their games as I could find some engine analysis output on some positions from a few of the games.
edit: what do the results mean? A: the conclusions that can be drawn from such an analysis is limited [as it is difficult if not impossible to isolate and define variables that affect move correlation between the game selected move and the engine selected move]. Higher E/G values may imply tendency for a player to play sharper positions or a more engine-like style among other factors.
the engine used for the analysis was critter 1.4 on weak hardware, running on 5 s --- however the let's check feature includes analyses from the online dbs (some CB online server somewhere), I do not know how the values are obtained for E/G correspondence for a single player on a single game --- if these Engine values are specific to the move preferred by my engine or by all engines that have assessed the position --- the E/G value is a statistic given at the end of the let's check process.
So basically if I chose all my non-opening moves using the top choice of critter 1.4 on my weak hardware for my WBCCC games, I may have an engine/game correspondence value of 1 with respect to the critter 1.4 engine.
Most of the positions in the games played in this tournament had never been analyzed before, but a few in the late opening, early middlegame have, and it seems a few players or spectators did use the let's check feature during their games as I could find some engine analysis output on some positions from a few of the games.
edit: what do the results mean? A: the conclusions that can be drawn from such an analysis is limited [as it is difficult if not impossible to isolate and define variables that affect move correlation between the game selected move and the engine selected move]. Higher E/G values may imply tendency for a player to play sharper positions or a more engine-like style among other factors.
now i understand,thanks
well,even if i have Fritz 13,i havent lets check running,so im not who is uploading the analisis to the server
well,from the games i played here (or the games i played at other sites like LSS,and everyone registered can see),i always play agressive openings (or if you preffer,sharper or wild positions),so in my games,usually you will see that correlation
and for the engines,i use mainly Houdini,Stockfish,Critter,HIARCS and Junior...i dont use (and i wont use) rybka...so people trying to guess my moves using rybka,are wasting their time
well,even if i have Fritz 13,i havent lets check running,so im not who is uploading the analisis to the server
well,from the games i played here (or the games i played at other sites like LSS,and everyone registered can see),i always play agressive openings (or if you preffer,sharper or wild positions),so in my games,usually you will see that correlation
and for the engines,i use mainly Houdini,Stockfish,Critter,HIARCS and Junior...i dont use (and i wont use) rybka...so people trying to guess my moves using rybka,are wasting their time
Actually I did upload a little bit of analysis when I was trying out the let's check feature to the server in the opening I intend to play against Mark if he will let me. So hopefully Mark will check and trust the analysis uploaded, given that it is most accurate. Some of the analysis that was uploaded is misleading given my weak hardware, so it would be ironic if Mark or some strong player will follow it and lose. I use the let's check server to see what positions are already known. Although it would be funny (or sad, or certainly irritating to chess professionals) if somebody like Kasparov got bored and decided to upload his 1000 unplayed prepared novelties or his analysis for everything and work out all the main lines to 40 moves or out to a draw.
Edit: I just found out Kasparov is visiting a school a hour away from me next week and free to the public, seriously, and open to questions and meeting people, maybe a friend or I could ask him? I know that Kasparov lent some of his analyses to Hikaru, but I suppose he was paid quite a lot to do that. Some promising young players in the US I know have had some training with him, you can see some snippets of what they had to say on the experience via the uscf website I think. Besides Kasparov's annotated games via his books, some of which is published in chessbase formats apparently are more interesting than what he has to say in general - he is quite thorough in his analysis, this is his major contribution to chess.
Some of the analysis that was uploaded is misleading given my weak hardware, so it would be ironic if Mark or some strong player will follow it and lose. I use the let's check server to see what positions are already known. Although it would be funny (or sad, or certainly irritating to chess professionals) if somebody like Kasparov got bored and decided to upload his 1000 unplayed prepared novelties or his analysis for everything and work out all the main lines to 40 moves or out to a draw. Edit: I just found out Kasparov is visiting a school a hour away from me next week and free to the public, seriously, and open to questions and meeting people, maybe a friend or I could ask him?
I know that Kasparov lent some of his analyses to Hikaru, but I suppose he was paid quite a lot to do that. Some promising young players in the US I know have had some training with him, you can see some snippets of what they had to say on the experience via the uscf website I think. Besides Kasparov's annotated games via his books, some of which is published in chessbase formats apparently are more interesting than what he has to say in general - he is quite thorough in his analysis, this is his major contribution to chess.
>Actually I did upload a little bit of analysis when I was trying out the let's check feature to the server in the opening I intend to play against Mark if he will let me. So hopefully Mark will >check and trust the analysis uploaded, given that it is most accurate
i have '2 versions' of fritz 13:the version that i bought,and the cracked version...and you will ask,if you bought (and paid) fritz 13,why you want the cracked version of the GUI?easy answer:because the cracked version of the GUI is ALL THE SAME,BUT THE FUNCTION LETS CHECK IS DISABLED
so there isnt any danger to upload any of your opening novelties so i use the cracked version for analisis to avoid uploading anything to the servers,and the 'normal' version when im playing informal chess
IA or DPA with Fritz and there is no problem --- keep the let's check function off and no analysis of yours is uploaded to the server; also probably use of the livebook probably requires use of let's check function although idk for sure yet; or simply do not input or play strong novelties when using let's check function!! - yet its useful to see what others have seen, when a new strong move has been played in a top tournament, many check soon after, and its interesting to see. also cb2009premium, instead of fritz is simpler for managing analysis, db, annotations in general.
also cb2009premium, instead of fritz is simpler for managing analysis, db, annotations in general.
take a look at the work of the censors here...and i firstly told that I BOUGHT (PAID) THE SOFTWARE
![[es]](/mwf/v12/flags/es.png "Spain")
Barnard,
Of course you bought (paid) the software, like I assume we all did.
The fact is that, regardless that you bought a legal copy, it is not a good idea to post about the (possible) advantages of cracked and illegal versions in public forums. In such a case, one should also post about the disadvantages and damages that these version are in fact causing. Not to mention that it might be a dangerous example and influence for other people reading the forum.
Sorry for being agree with censorship in this case. Just my opinion.
Of course you bought (paid) the software, like I assume we all did.
The fact is that, regardless that you bought a legal copy, it is not a good idea to post about the (possible) advantages of cracked and illegal versions in public forums. In such a case, one should also post about the disadvantages and damages that these version are in fact causing. Not to mention that it might be a dangerous example and influence for other people reading the forum.
Sorry for being agree with censorship in this case. Just my opinion.
in general terms,you are right
now i will explain you my personal experience
i bought Fritz 13,only for the 'lets check' feature
when i downloaded and installed,i saw the feature is what i want...but when i try to disable the feature,i cant;when i close the GUI,and i open again,the feature was 'on',so in the case i forget,my analisis will send to the server.i wrote to chessbase,and they answered me telling i cant disable that feature,and that annoyed me,because i wouldnt always the feature on,only when i want
now more problems,randomly,my PAID version of Fritz 13,become unregistered,so i registered again,with my serial number,activated again...AND ANOTHER TIME,BECOME UNREGISTERED...when i activated 3 times the program,and become unregistered again,i tried to activate the software,but i was unable.i wrote really upset to chessbase,telling them that i never uninstalled my software,or installed in another computer,so why it was unregistered alone,and why 4 times!they,after a lot of emails,reset the 3 times activations to 0,and i reinstall my software again...about a few days ago,the program becone unregistered again!!i wrote to the technical support of chessbase,and they answered me 1 week later!they told me they doesnt know why the software on my computer unregister itself,reset the activation s again to 0 (i only activated 1 time,but i told them to reset),and activate the software again...less than 2 weeks later,fritz 13 unregistered itself alone agian!and I,tired of writing them and waiting one week to solve my problems,decided to use the cracked version,because it doesnt give me any problemand also disable the lets check feature,that annoys me sending my analisis when i deactivate it
now,and reading it,do you think im trying to make others use that software,or i had valid reasons to use it?be honest with your answer ppipper
p.s. you can answer me by pm if you wouldnt answer here at public
now i will explain you my personal experience
i bought Fritz 13,only for the 'lets check' feature
when i downloaded and installed,i saw the feature is what i want...but when i try to disable the feature,i cant;when i close the GUI,and i open again,the feature was 'on',so in the case i forget,my analisis will send to the server.i wrote to chessbase,and they answered me telling i cant disable that feature,and that annoyed me,because i wouldnt always the feature on,only when i want
now more problems,randomly,my PAID version of Fritz 13,become unregistered,so i registered again,with my serial number,activated again...AND ANOTHER TIME,BECOME UNREGISTERED...when i activated 3 times the program,and become unregistered again,i tried to activate the software,but i was unable.i wrote really upset to chessbase,telling them that i never uninstalled my software,or installed in another computer,so why it was unregistered alone,and why 4 times!they,after a lot of emails,reset the 3 times activations to 0,and i reinstall my software again...about a few days ago,the program becone unregistered again!!i wrote to the technical support of chessbase,and they answered me 1 week later!they told me they doesnt know why the software on my computer unregister itself,reset the activation s again to 0 (i only activated 1 time,but i told them to reset),and activate the software again...less than 2 weeks later,fritz 13 unregistered itself alone agian!and I,tired of writing them and waiting one week to solve my problems,decided to use the cracked version,because it doesnt give me any problemand also disable the lets check feature,that annoys me sending my analisis when i deactivate it
now,and reading it,do you think im trying to make others use that software,or i had valid reasons to use it?be honest with your answer ppipper
p.s. you can answer me by pm if you wouldnt answer here at public
It's ok Barnard, now is clearly explained, probably it was not so clear in the first post.
As for the rest... forget about F13 and its lack of customer service and go for a serious GUI. My advice is Aquarium
As for the rest... forget about F13 and its lack of customer service and go for a serious GUI. My advice is Aquarium
![[gb]](/mwf/v12/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
Great idea and spend next 6 months learning how to use it.
I am to old now.
I am to old now.
6 months??Aquarium is so hard to learn??omg
> 6 months??Aquarium is so hard to learn??omg
Spent about 2 years with it. Never learned to use it.
![[sa]](/mwf/v12/flags/sa.png "Saudi Arabia")
Spent about 2 years with it. Never learned to use it.
Are you serious? You are much credited by aqua development team go to "about" you will see your name there.
How I wish to become a beta tester
Are you serious? You are much credited by aqua development team go to "about" you will see your name there.
How I wish to become a beta tester
something is to be a betatester,and something different how use Aquarium at full strength to analize chess positions;you can use Aquarium being a 'novice',include you can be a betatester and test the features,but for sure you need to be a 'professional' to fully take all the benefits from all the advanced features to analize chess positions
i'm pro-am at the moment
i am la-zy at the moment
Uly,are you serious about that 2 years?
He keeps wanting it to do things it was not designed for. Given that it should; sometimes; have been designed that way it makes him frustrated!
well,try to make one thing something it wasnt designed for,makes no sense...but i dont think Uly has that no sense
> Uly,are you serious about that 2 years?
Yes, I don't actually know exactly how much, should at least been 1 year and a half (it could be much more than 2 years). I used it since IDEA was in alpha testing stages till about the end development of Aquarium 2010.
I used Aquarium for my correspondence games during this time period and lost all of them. I also had concurrent games in where I didn't use Aquarium, and it was clear my performance was better.
This was mainly about the use of IDEA, and time saved when doing something (what is being called "pixel counting") so that it would be slow to try to use IDEA and Infinite Analysis together, and it was faster to use IDEA and Infinite Analysis of Shredder GUI together (yes, two GUIs opened at the same time was faster than just Aquarium, because switching windows and putting IA ON in Shredder was faster than switching modes and putting IA ON in Aquarium with the mouse).
I don't know what natmaku means when he says I was trying to use it for something it wasn't designed for, wasn't it designed to play correspondence chess games with the help of IDEA? Because that's what I tried, and failed.
Of course, one can't blame the GUI totally for that, as other people did learn to use it and in much shorter time (I've seen "2 months to learn to use Aquarium" mentioned), which could mean user fault in my case, but I still would like to mention my experience so that people are aware that hard work trying to use Aquarium, and lengthened experience using it does not guarantee that you will learn to use it effectively and does not guarantee that it will improve your performance. It could also do the opposite as if you fail to use it, the time learning was wasted.
well,im not using IDEA,and im not having bad results,so i think that now stop using my methods and start experimenting with IDEA,is a complet waste of time,and even more,im sure until i learn to use it,i will losse more games than i will win,and i wouldnt losse my games...now im involved on WBCCC 2,and when i will finish,i will be involved into gain my lost elo from my 2 withdrawals at LSS (near 150 elo points each time,and is time consuming to reach 150 points again,2 times)...so i wouldnt experiment with new methods
I like Aquarium, it has plenty of features that make easier my work. Furthermore, there are many many things that I don't really know if they are even possible with CB GUIs. To be honest, I must admit that I prefer to play against an opponent who I really know he is not using Aq.
As I said previously all analysis features that can be done with those GUIs can be learned in Aquarium in less than 60 minutes.
In current Aq version, it doesn't make sense to differentiate between IA and IDeA, since it is fully integrated.
As I said previously all analysis features that can be done with those GUIs can be learned in Aquarium in less than 60 minutes.
In current Aq version, it doesn't make sense to differentiate between IA and IDeA, since it is fully integrated.
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