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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: ppipper vs Barnard 1/2 - 1/2
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Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 00:41
OTB in a blitz game,he can draw against Kasparov?well,he must be a very very good OTB player,as i dont think Kasparov plays weak

but i think Kasparov was retired,how is he was playing blitz games against 'amateur' (this word must not take with bad manners,only means not professional chess players) people?
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-06 00:37
it was an event organized in favor of Karpov for FIDE president. As part of the event, in order to get some financial fonds, there was the chance to play against them for the person(s) who payed the highest amount. HEM knew all of this, he flew from London to NY, payed the amount (nobody knows how much) and played against him.

There is (was) a video of all the story.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-06 00:41
thanks Jose i watched the video but cant remember links.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-03-06 01:10
Here's the thread with links:

HEM Vs. Kasparov @ NY
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 02:16
go out of my game damned manipulator!you are bothering me with your comments

yes,you and only you bother me
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-06 03:25
thanks Uly its a good read.For the benifit of Barnard when HEM played on playchess he was highest rated player.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 00:43
well,that explains a lot...

not doubting that HEM will be a strong OTB player,but if he payed to play against Kasparov (to get them some financial fonds),maybe Kasparov has told to play to win,but not with all his forces
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-06 00:44
well, HEM lost although he played a strong game. Kasparov played without pondering :lol:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 00:48

>Kasparov played without pondering


:lol:

well,losse against Kasparov,is normal...but he played against him,and that is something he wont forget :smile:

i have the books that Kasparov wrote,''Mis geniales predecesores'' signed by Kasparov :smile:
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-06 00:49
short story. I had the chance playing against my favorite Karpov in Valencia 3 or 4 years ago in a simultaneos exibition. The person on my right played 1.b4 and when Karpov came to his table he took the pawn back to his b2 square and encouraged him to play e4 or d4. Of course he did.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 00:58
strange...why Karpov wouldnt play against 'b4'?he thought he can losse?i doubt that,so why he took back the pawn?
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-06 01:04
I dont really know. I interpreted it as Karpov thought something like 'hey, let's play serious chess' but who knows... Anyway, is not Karpov the kind of man that you would discuss with is he suggests you not to play certain opening.

No offense Anatoly if you are reading :grin:, you know I love u! :grin:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 01:12
well,if i have the chance to play against him one day,for sure i wont play 'experiments' like 'b4' or 'a4' or similar,is a waste of the oportunity to play a good game against a legend

>No offense Anatoly if you are reading , you know I love u!


im sure he is not reading you,and even if he is reading you,he wont recognize you :smile:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 23:47
i saw the game (without using engines)

it looks interesting,tending to be draw,but interesting...i think it tends to be draw due to the strong of the both players,and the opening choosed,but it has some interesting moves,like the advance 'd5' by the black,or your 'clean up' of the queen side in the middle 20's movements,a good maneuver

your atack at the queen side seems strong, (at least with the eyes of OTB player),but sure that with a computer,and is has happened,it will be stopped

very good game,and im sure that bookmaker will take note about that game,and all others of your games with that opening to improve the theory of that opening Paul
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-05 17:55
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

6n1/p2k3p/1p3p2/1P2bP2/4K1PB/1P2N3/8/8 w - - 0 48

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "16 days, 19 hours, 47 minutes"]
[BlackTime "17 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8 47.Ne3 Be5"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-05 20:35
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

6n1/p2k3p/1p3p2/1P2bP2/4K1P1/1P2N3/5B2/8 b - - 0 48

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "16 days, 18 hours, 6 minutes"]
[BlackTime "17 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8 47.Ne3 Be5 48.Bf2"]
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 21:56
todos los analisis y la jugada que te iba a dar,a tomar viento...llego a casa,y el ordenador apagado porque se habia reseteado,asi que he perdido todos los analisis,y no puedo dar la jugada ahora,hasta mañana no podre darla Jose
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-06 22:03
tranquilo Barnard, nos quedan más de 15 días a cada uno, así que no hay ninguna prisa... Confío en que puedas recuperar tu trabajo. Un saludo
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 22:10 Edited 2012-03-06 22:17
hombre,recuperarlo claro que puedo,porque las ideas sobre como enfocar el final las tengo en mi cabeza,no en el ordenador,pero me fastidia que deje el ordenador encendido durante el dia para que corrobore con los analisis del engine que no me he dejado ningun golpe,y que cuando vuelva,el ordenador se ha reseteado porque se calienta porque el ventilador no funciona bien en el portatil,y eso que estamos en las fechas que estamos y no hace calor,y empezo a darme problemas,asi que si sigue a este paso,no creo que pueda terminar el campeonato porque al verano no sobrevive sin ventilador,y no estoy yo ahora como para comprarme un ordenador nuevo
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-08 22:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

8/p2k3p/1p3p1n/1P2bP2/4K1P1/1P2N3/5B2/8 w - - 0 49

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "16 days, 18 hours, 6 minutes"]
[BlackTime "14 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8 47.Ne3 Be5 48.Bf2 Nh6"]
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-08 22:20 Edited 2012-03-08 22:28
48...Nh6 :eek:

surprise. Not saying it is a !? move, just I was expecting others.

I hope you did it right!
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-08 23:03
well,maybe im wrong with my analisis,but it is not a 'not forced error' like i did in my game against Sebi when i mixed the order of the mves in a line Jose,is a move that i analized

i can be wrong,in that case you will win the game,or im right,in that case i will very deep analized the draw line...the time will give us the answer :smile:

p.s.i just made that move for one reason,that i will tell you after the game...i can tell you now,if you preffer,since it doesnt change or affect the game
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-08 23:13
it is ok Barnard, it is not a dubious move at all. Sorry if I alarmed you

Amazing (and worrying :red:) that I had totally discarded this move about 3 or 4 moves ago, just thinking that h6 was not the best place for your knight. Now I see everything is fine. Being a good move as I think it is, this has been a good example of human mind missleading my computer. glups
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-08 23:34
well,dont worry Jose,everyone can discard moves that after is see that are good moves,that happens to everyone

but i dont understand what you mean when you said ''this has been a good example of human mind misleading my computer'',can you explain me?
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-08 23:53

> ''this has been a good example of human mind misleading my computer'',can you explain me?


sure: it is not that my engine didn't see it, the fact is that I forced my computer to discard a move that is certainly a good one, actually is the best in the opinion of a very good endgame player (since you decided to go for it, rather than others alternatives...)
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-09 00:00
yes,in my opinion is the best move in the position

all other alternatives i still think are draws,but they all have a few traps that i must evade...now,with that move,the traps are gone,so the draws are too much easier to obtain

when the game will end,i will send you a few analisis and the ideas why i played that move (now,obvious,i cant tell you Jose :wink: )
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-10 08:45
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

8/p2k3p/1p3p1n/1P2bP2/4K1P1/1P2N3/8/4B3 b - - 0 49

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "15 days, 8 hours, 35 minutes"]
[BlackTime "14 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8 47.Ne3 Be5 48.Bf2 Nh6 49.Be1"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-11 00:10
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

8/p2k1n1p/1p3p2/1P2bP2/4K1P1/1P2N3/8/4B3 w - - 0 50

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "15 days, 8 hours, 35 minutes"]
[BlackTime "14 days, 3 hours, 26 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8 47.Ne3 Be5 48.Bf2 Nh6 49.Be1 Nf7"]
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 01:06
looked pretty obvious to me,but then i am only an observer to game.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 01:07
looked pretty obvious to you my move,or that the game is a  draw Paul?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 01:13
well it looks drawish to me,but i am not playing and no doubt you guys have done much more AN than me.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 01:19
well,i made a lot of hours of analisis....

but Jose wants play,so we are playing...at least i will improve my chess knowledge of endgames

i love play 2 types of positions:wild positions,and endgames...and since we are playing an endgame (even if i think is a draw),and i can learn from it,lets play :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 01:22
thats the spirit,i have learned a lot about endgame play in last 18 months.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 01:30
how you learned about endgames?

i studied the books about rook endgames,written by Smislov,Knigth and Bishop by Averbaj and the hard and in my opinion the more complicated book,endgames by pawns by Maizelis...that took me near 2 years study and assimilate all from that books...

and now,i usually put endgames from that book against engines (endgames that,for exampleare won,and i must win against the engine,or wndgmaes that are draw,and i must draw against the engine,and it isnt a easy worl,be sure)

and appart from that,there are other interesting works to practice what i learned in that book,like 'chess endgame training' by convekta(or chjessok,i dont remember well now),chessimo for pc,etc...and with that tools,i can practice what i learned studying that book
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 01:35
well in Rook Endings i consult Levenfish,Smyslov book, in most others i consult Ruben Fines Basic Chess Endings.
.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 01:38
have you the possibility to buy 'endgames knights and bishops' by Averbaj,and 'endgames by pawns' by Maizeleis?if you can,buy it,are the best books to explains that endgames(minor pices and pawns endgames)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 01:47
not yet.Just remember that modern computers with latest engines are sometimes better than than these old GM's books,not always but sometimes.

Esp regarding Knight Endings.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 01:53
yes,of course...and since nalimov tablebases was built,some books was simply out of phase...

but if one person want to start studying,he must start studying that books,and when he is able tu assimilate that knowledge,see what of that knowledge is right and what wrong,and the knowledge that i wrong improve it (with engines,with tablebases that correct some books,etc...)

just my point of view is that we cant start studying endgames playing against engines or 'studying' playing against nalimov tablebases examples,because we wont understand it,and the books the examples are explained (even if some of them are wrong)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 01:57
i am 68 and have better things to do.:smile:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 02:02
better things to do?when i will have your age (and i dont know if i will arrive),i will be a very very lazy old man :lol:

i will only play chess,smoke good cigars,listen opera and and look to the young girls :lol: (well,i think i must forget about good cigars,i dont smoke)
Parent - - By Wrath of the Titans (****) [sa] Date 2012-03-11 02:56
The most best and practical endgame book for me is Mark Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual.
Parent - - By BigBen (****) Date 2012-03-11 08:25
Hi,
    Without looking to deeply I assume 49.g5 Nf7 50.g6 was no better

Regards
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-11 10:32
i was also expecting 49.g5 but its probably no better than Be1.
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-11 15:12
g5 Nf7 g6 is the best line, but a clear draw.

Other lines are also draw but not so easy to play. That is what I took Be1. Since there is no hurry and the position is still interesting for both sides, we can still play a few more moves. Otherwise, we can finish the game and focus in other games.

Disclaimer for garvin: this is not draw proposal... ;-)
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 16:35
i had prepared some lines that if you went trough the move 'g5',im sure you enjoyed it,me allowing your king surpassing my defenses and going to 'eat' my 'a7-b6' pawns...and still a draw :smile:

that was the reasonig inside my move 'Nh6'
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-11 16:43
Yes, that was my guess and the reason I did not played it.

g5 is of course the best move and human like to be played OTB. I think, by the way, g5 is almost winning move for human play.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 16:49
yes,of course,purely human play,without help of the engines,sure that 'g5' at 75 % of the games will win it with that move

but in that case,OTB,i had never played 'Nh6',of course
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 16:41
well,all lines are draws,so is my opinion that if he wants to win,he must play the more complex lines,trying to put me in troubles with my computer and make me blunder,and the most complex line was 'g5'
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-11 16:39
Hi Tony

the position is a draw,so well played,all the lines are 'equal',since all the lines are a draw

of course,if white can play lines that has traps,that line is better just because i can miss that trap,but just for that

i think that even being draws,the move that gives him better chances that i make an error (fo the complexity of the positions and the analisis),was 'g5',not 'Be1',but if he decided to play it,he has his own reasons
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-11 16:52
Well, i may be wrong here, but my reasoning was just the opposite. In my opinion the move I played is, of course, more complicated to play. I mean, the continuation.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: ppipper vs Barnard 1/2 - 1/2
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