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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: ppipper vs Barnard 1/2 - 1/2
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Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 00:22
well as were all into guessing games,i think black can get the draw.Maybe i have missed something as i havent spent that long looking at position.
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-01 01:31 Edited 2012-03-01 01:34
Black will draw if my friend does not make any mistake as it has happened till now. Although it is true that the engines are lost in these positions, and the evaluations and candidate moves Rybka presents are a lottery, I am impressed how Barnard is mangaing to defend his position with his limited computer, without making a single blunder, and even in less time than me. Now he can concentrate on this single game and I hope he can hold the 1/2 point if I don't find a winning plan.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 01:47
i noticed Barnard had used less time than yourself(somewhat suprised).I gave him advice before tournament started to use all his time.
However the follies of youth take over,despite this i agree with you that he has played well so far.
i have started to look deeply at this game but will make no further comments as it could be a distraction.
Best to both of you Paul.
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 02:02

>the follies of youth take over


:smile: agree and absolutelly agree with you...

but i usually tend to play fast,for 2 reasons Paul:for my type of play,i play fast,and for my obsolete computer,when i have clear think of what im playing,i play fast to save time for later(i dont know if later i will need my time,and i will need make deep analisis,and make deep analisis with an old computer,is very time consuming,so if i havent 'time saved',i wont be able to use it if i need)

>i have started to look deeply at this game but will make no further comments as it could be a distraction.


when we will finish our game,your comments will be wellcome Paul
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 01:52
Hi Jose

you are playing soo well the endgame,and you are giving me a very hard headache with that endgame :smile:

yes,agree with you about candidate moves and the 'lottery'(not about the engine,since i havent rybka between my engines)

usually engines are lost playing hard and complicated endgames like that,and a lot of times goes into 'equals' moves,and only when the engine moved 8-10 moves it 'looks' that is in a lost position,but with no return,we cant move back our moves

well,you found that your 'only' plan to play for the victory is play 'Be1' and advance your 'h' pawn,but lets see if im able to manage to defend the position Jose :wink:

whatever the result of the game,it will be a very good and interesting game
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-01 10:19

> you are playing soo well the endgame,and you are giving me a very hard headache with that endgame


thank you Barnard. I am doing my best. The interesting thing is that I have the idea about what to do, but I still don't find how to procceed. I will show you some intersting stuff when the game finishes.

> whatever the result of the game,it will be a very good and interesting game


for sure!
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 22:15

>The interesting thing is that I have the idea about what to do, but I still don't find how to procceed


i know that you have idea about what to do,as i know how to evade your traps...i think implement the ideas how to win the position,is only possible if is a won endgame,or if i make a blunder,even if you have the idea how to force the position,it can be impossible if i can manage to stop your tryings to force the endgame

>I will show you some intersting stuff when the game finishes.


will be a pleasure share our analisis about the endgame (or in general,about the whole game) when the game ends
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 01:44
well,i can get the draw,and i think is draw,if i dont make a blunder Paul...of course,in that complicated endgames,and as Jose said,the moves that the engines suggest usually are 'lottery',pick one without 'human' knowledge,and be sure you will losse the endgame...

engines doesnt 'understand'(if engines are able to understand,that they arent,of course) that specially hard endgames,and that endgame is being really hard to play for me,because i must analize a lot of variations,and of course, 'cut' that analisis before i want due to my computer,so i must trust in my intuition a lot

Jose is playing that endgame too well,and he is putting me a few traps,that i think im evading,but maybe,i wont be able to evade one of them,the time will give us the answer :smile:
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 01:51
one final comment on game.i think engine endgame play is much better than either of you think,their are exceptions of course.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 01:56
well,of course are exception...

rybka plays endgames too poorly,for example...Houdini plays endgame relatively well,Hiarcs plays well,and i havent enough endgames played with my other engines

there are only a few engines who have embedded 'chess knowledge' (of course,good and extense chess endgame knowledge),and tactical engines,usually havent,,,

Komodo,for exmaple,havent embedded that knowledge (as much as i know,and is one of the top engines)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 01:58
no comment.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 02:03
why?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 02:08
because i dont agree with you on some of things in your post.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 02:16
well Paul,we are friends,if we dont agree in some things,we can tell each other what things we dont agree instead of remain silent
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 02:19
you are still playing this game so it would not be right to express my opinions on engine endgame play at the moment.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 02:23
ok Paul,as you want...give your opinion when we will finish our game,dont worry about it
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 02:29
i am not in slightest worried about expressing my opinion,however it would be incorrect for me to give you my thoughts after much work on my part about engine evals esp as we have different hardware.:smile:
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-01 02:35
yes,right,we have very different hardware...

surely your work is much better than mine since you can make much more analisis than me Paul,im anxious to listen your thoughts about engines when we will finish our game :smile:
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 02:39
sure no prob.
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-01 10:14
Thank you both very much for your respect to the game in progress.

I wouldn't be surprised if Paul, with his original human plans and vaste knowledge about strenghts and weaknesses of engines, would find the solution to the game (whatever it would be) and tell us once the game is finished.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 10:23
i aint that good,i can only give you my thoughts.:smile:
Parent - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-01 10:21

> their are exceptions of course


agree
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-29 23:40
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

2n5/p2kb2p/1p3p2/1P1K1Pp1/2N3P1/1P6/7P/4B3 b - - 0 43

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "17 days, 13 hours, 11 minutes"]
[BlackTime "20 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-03 01:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

2n5/p2k3p/1p1b1p2/1P1K1Pp1/2N3P1/1P6/7P/4B3 w - - 0 44

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "17 days, 13 hours, 11 minutes"]
[BlackTime "18 days, 9 hours, 22 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6"]
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-03 22:57
as we cant get back to this position,i think i can comment.I may have tried  43...Bd8 letting white trying to bust the position,one line is 44.h3 Be7 45.Bf2 Bd8.
however i must admit it was a toss-up between this and Bd6.:smile:

most engines liked Bc5.
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-03 15:40
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

2n5/p2k3p/1p1b1p2/1P1K1Pp1/2N3PP/1P6/8/4B3 b - - 0 44

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "16 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes"]
[BlackTime "18 days, 9 hours, 22 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-04 00:00
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

8/p2kn2p/1p1b1p2/1P1K1P2/2N3PB/1P6/8/8 w - - 0 46

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "17 days, 0 hours, 47 minutes"]
[BlackTime "18 days, 2 hours, 59 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-04 08:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

6n1/p2k3p/1p1b1p2/1P3P2/2N1K1PB/1P6/8/8 w - - 0 47

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "16 days, 17 hours, 26 minutes"]
[BlackTime "18 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-03-04 19:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "ppipper"]
[Black "Barnard"]

6n1/p2k3p/1p1b1p2/1P3P2/4K1PB/1P2N3/8/8 b - - 0 47

Game 185367. In progress
[WhiteTime "16 days, 7 hours, 47 minutes"]
[BlackTime "18 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes"]
[Moves "1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Bd3 Nbd7 6.O-O dxc4 7.Bxc4 Bd6 8.b3 O-O 9.Bb2 Qe7 10.Ne5 Rd8 11.Nd2 Nd5 12.a3 f6 13.Nef3 Kh8 14.Re1 e5 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.e4 exd4 17.exd5 Qf7 18.Nxd4 Nf8 19.Nc4 Qxd5 20.Nb5 Bb8 21.g3 Be6 22.Qxd5 Rxd5 23.Rad1 Kg8 24.Rxd5 Bxd5 25.Re7 Bc6 26.a4 Ng6 27.Re1 b6 28.f4 Bxb5 29.axb5 Bc7 30.Ra1 Ne7 31.Kg2 Nf5 32.Rd1 Rd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Kf3 Kf7 35.g4 Ne7 36.Ke4 Nc8 37.Ba3 Ke6 38.f5+ Kd7 39.Bf8 g5 40.Bb4 Be7 41.Bd2 Ke8 42.Kd5 Kd7 43.Be1 Bd6 44.h4 gxh4 45.Bxh4 Ne7+ 46.Ke4 Ng8 47.Ne3"]
Parent - - By Schachmatt (****) [us] Date 2012-03-05 07:45
optically it's looking for Black quite holdable now.  not many ways white can really play for progress, however, white can torture black for a while and play for tricks.
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-05 09:05

> white can torture black for a while and play for tricks


yes, I will do it with all my efforts. :evil:

Now, seriuosly I had prepared several traps but Barnard avoided all of them without blundering any single move. Now I must admit my chances that I had prepared are almost finished, just a few more left.

Good game
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 18:08 Edited 2012-03-05 18:11

>white can torture black for a while and play for tricks


>yes, I will do it with all my efforts


>I had prepared several traps but Barnard avoided all of them without blundering any single move


Jose,you think im going to fall down into the traps? :wink:

of course,you are doing well,trying to force the position,and we both can learn from that endgame,since we are making good analisis of the position

edit:p.s. will be a pleasure see the stuff you told me,and share a few analisis to exchange opinions about the opening/middlegame/endgame (the whole game,in general terms)
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-05 18:46
well, that is what I have been trying, but I must admit you have avoided all of them, one by one.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 19:00
yes,i did :smile:

the latest was when you played 'h4',if i play 'h6',you will continue with the move 'h5' and i have the endgame lost
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-03-05 19:05
you are right! :twisted:
Parent - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 19:08
:wink:
Parent - - By Schachmatt (****) [us] Date 2012-03-05 22:17
yeah i saw a few of the traps.  :wink:  well played indeed.  seemed like White somehow obtained a slightly larger advantage than normal objectively. optically it seems that Black has consolidated here mostly.  i don't know how the flow of the game went in terms of how big white's advantage , haven't studied the game and these positions type much.  looks to me very quality though.  i like Barnard's play style too.  very dynamic and entertaining.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 22:36
well,i played a closed position trying to play semi-active and dinamic chess,and that made me dont play a very good opening,and fall into a slightly disadvantage;appart from that,i think i played a good game (of course,Jose also played a good game),not making blunders

i usually always play active and dynamic chess,i dont like passive and drawish chess,that is why,always that i can,i try tombine or attack my opponent...starting from that point,a lot of people thinks that me,being an agressive and an attacking player,will play badly positionaly or the endgmaes,and that is completely false,you can analize that endgame (just an example),and look for any blunder;i can play positionaly if i want,is just i preffer play agressive,more fun to combine and play agressive :twisted:
Parent - By Schachmatt (****) [us] Date 2012-03-05 22:46
quite understandable. nice game.  i too prefer more attacking and dynamic chess, although i am not averse to endgame and positional play.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-05 23:13
i also like attacking play,i believe highendman and myself have done more for Sicilian Wing Gambit theory in last 2 or 3 years than was done in last 50 years.My game against turbojuice was the final test of this.DRAW.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 23:17
for sure,i know that your analisis are very good

i never played that gambit,since i dont usually play the Sicilian...

can you give me the link to your game against turbojuice so i can take a look at that game Paul?

i dont know how of your games against him is that game
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 23:30
thanks.im gonna take a look at the game Paul
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-05 23:44
peoples comments are interesting in this game.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-05 23:49
yes,comment are also really interestin...

i was just impressed about what turbojuice said that he only used about 10 minutes each day to make interaction with Idea...and just with that,drew the game...has he a big computer?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-05 23:53 Edited 2012-03-05 23:56
nope only a quad,Turbojuice is also very strong OTB player,like HEM,BigBen,Kappatoo and SR.

HEM only just missed a draw against Kasparov last year in NewYork.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 00:16

>HEM only just missed a draw against Kasparov last year in NewYork.


Kasparov?the ex World Champion?...he is retired,how he play against him?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-06 00:30
ask highendman for link.Kasparov initially played against 2 players at once he easily beat first but had a hard time against  SHAHAR.
Parent - - By Barnard (Bronze) Date 2012-03-06 00:33
i will ask him...but Kasparov played against them 2,in a simultaneous chess games OTB?in a correspondence games?how?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-06 00:37
OTB in a more or less blitz game,i cant remember full details but it was well documented at the time,HEM had to fly to NewYork to play him.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: ppipper vs Barnard 1/2 - 1/2
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