For me supplying ppipper (Jose) with a trophy for winning the 1st WBCCC was a pleasure after what had happened with Jimmy. I was totally surprised to find Jimmy actually playing in the 2nd tournament and sent a number of members a PM about the matter. The main point being what if Jimmy actually won the event? I for one if it was needed would not buy a trophy for him and go to the touble of getting it engraved and sent.
I have read the posts and thought about what Jimmy has done and a ban from the forum is definitely deserved but that is up to others to decide. Paul (NATIONAL12) is my m8 and maybe he has a fault of being to generous and trying to help others less well off than himself and there are always people who will try to take advantage of this.
Jimmy and his medical problems, if this is true I do have some sympathy. I at times complain and moan about things here in Britain but even if you are unemployed with no money and even laying in the gutter of a road somewhere you will get medical treatment and given food in a hospital free of charge, we may not have the `big guns` anymore but I will accept that.
> The main point being what if Jimmy actually won the event? I for one if it was needed would not buy a trophy for him and go to the touble of getting it engraved and sent.
Looking at his games, to be honest I never thought seriously about that possibility. But in such a case, it would certainly have been a paradox, don't forget I suggested (and will do) that last edition's winner should buy new trophy for next winner, starting from my self.
> if you are unemployed with no money and even laying in the gutter of a road somewhere you will get medical treatment and given food in a hospital free of charge
In spite of the impression given by the media, the same thing happens in the United States, too. I guess that's a subject for a different thread, though.
> the same thing happens in the United States, too
yes, that is clear. But as you are saying, that is an off topic here.
BTW, I cannot easily understand how could a person under such cirunstances, spend most of his time on forums like this one, figcs, or others, instead trying to get a job and so on
>Looking at his games, to be honest I never thought seriously about that possibility. But in such a case, it would certainly have been a paradox, don't forget I suggested (and will do) that last edition's winner >should buy new trophy for next winner, starting from my self.
I agree with you having to buy a trophy for someone who did what he did would leave a really bad taste in ones mouth. Has it been agreed who will buy\supply the trophy for winning the 2nd WBCCC tournament?
>In spite of the impression given by the media, the same thing happens in the United States, too. I guess that's a subject for a different thread, though
If what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt you then Jimmy should never even have mentioned he had medical problems if the treatment is free as many think he may have used the money for that. I must admit to have watched a TV program about free clinics having to be setup for people who cannot afford medical or dental treatment in the USA, the queues were quite staggering, one guy had an hernia and he was told to go to the hospital, he did go but the cost of the treatment was some $20,000 and with no insurance he walked away.
> Has it been agreed who will buy\supply the trophy for winning the 2nd WBCCC tournament?
I have suggested, that current Champion should buy next edition's trophy, as an alternative to send the same trophy every year that may be a bad idea, due to several problems and risks. Therefore, I will buy the trophy and supply it to who ever will be the winner, in the same manner you did it with me.
I have mentioned this matter several times, no need for agreement (unless people do not want me to do it, of course), at least for WBCCC II.
totally agree with you Jose...
i think is an excellent idea that the winner buy the trophy for the winner of the next tournament
> (I'm assuming that there actually is a medical situation here.)
How does it work with say someone unemployed with no medical insurance who say has cancer, do they actually get all the treatment (chemo etc) for free? .... How much does medical insurance cost in the USA? I assume there are different levels of cover.
A friend of mine Charlie with his wife went to Florida, after landing at the airport his wife slipped and hurt her arm and it was recommended she go to the hospital in case her arm was broken. Upon arrival the first thing they were asked was did they have insurance, of course they had holiday insurance so his wife was seen. She had a couple of x-rays and was given pain killers as the arm was not broken, the bill for this was over $10,000 I cannot remember if she was taken to the hospital in an ambulance which I guess would add a little to the bill as it was a short journey. Is this sort of cost the norm? or is the tourist special price lol
I don't have an answer for how much medical insurance costs in US. That depends on a lot of things. Kaiser Permanente is a big insurer in some states like California, you can visit their web site and see what they say.
As far as your friend's story, any body that walks into an ER in USA will get seen, their insurance or lack of insurance makes no difference, that's the law. I believe an ambulance ride here can certainly cost about 1000 dollars. But an ER bill of 10,000 dollars for just a few hours does not seem correct, typically for what you described it should be in the vicinity of a couple of thousand dollars. The hospitals (including ERs) provide a lot of service to poeple who are not able to pay anything. So unfortunately to make up for the loss, people with insurance/cash probably get charged a lot more than they would otherwise be. So 10,000 may be a little too much, but may be not that far off depending on what she was charged for. If someone pays cash, the hospitals usually will settle for about 40% of what they initially bill.
>Medical bills in US are incredibly high. There are stories of insurance companies asking the patients to fly to India (all expense paid) to get an operation done because of how much it will cost if done in US
Therte are lots of stories about treatment costing $150,000 in America but the same treatment carried out in India by doctors trained in the USA costing $10,000 .... It is not only the USA though my son wanted to go private for a MRI scan which was £800 in India £30 we do not know if it was exactly like for like. I guess this why you do not see poor doctors lol but then agin how much money do you value your life?
In my gym there is a nice chap called Doctor Kumar he earns some £150,000 a year has a nice car or two and takes 4!!! holidays a year mainly to retuen to Kerala where he is from ... He has told me he simply could not make that kind of money in India mainly because there are not enough hours in the day, he also works for the police here as a call out doctor
i agree with you about all points of your post
just one question,with his poorly game,was very doubtfoul that he can won the WBCCC 2,and like ppipper said,that can be a paradox
and agree that a ban is definetively deserved,at least Uly and other people will see that it isnt an annoyance of just a few people (Ruben and me),and a lot of more people are claiming for the same thing
about all the excuses that Jimmy told us,yes,i als agree with you that are all excuses,and lies,as simply as that
I have asked Jimmy previously on at least two occassions to detail who the sponsors were and to name them. That way we know who is to blame and that Jimmy is a victim. Jimmy has never told me who these sponsors were and this is still true to this day.
The most logical conclusion to draw then is that they did not exist. I find this conclusion difficult to grasp, but that is really the only real conclusion to draw after all this time. After all the criticism and begging for answers, an innocent person ie Jimmy copping the blame for others pulling out of their commitments (sponsors) would be telling everyone of their names so everyone else knew who they were and not to deal with them again.
This has not occurred.
WBCCC 2011 was promoted with having a large prize fund for no entry fee, based on the sponsors being able to pay the prizes. I made a mistake in not asking right near the start about who the sponsors were and had they paid the promised money.
This meant that everyone played in the event under a false sense of what the competition was about. Due to the advertising of prizemoney, it managed to attract most top players from the different sites. I know most will say that they are not in it for the money, but when prizemoney is advertised and early it is obvious the field is going to be decent, then it attracts more hype and more entries.
National12 recovery fund
I was stunned when I found out like everyone else that Jimmy had spent the money on other matters. To not be willing to pay it back is just plain disgusting on every level. It is this choice of action alone that I think has drawn the most severe rebukes from most.
It was commented that perhaps the money was used for gambling debts. I doubt this, but even if true, then it is not any of our responsibility to enable a person who has a gambling addiction. Usually it requires the gambler to lose everything important in their lives before they admit they have a problem.
As I said, I do not think this is the case, but if it is, then I am truly sorry, but many others have been impacted by your actions, either medical or gambling.
When I heard of WBCCC and that there would be substantial prizes, I offered my services to be arbiter as I thought that would add to the event (having an Fide arbiter in charge) and that with the amount of prizemoney, someone experienced should be in charge of the arbiting section.
I did not play in 2011 to remove any possibility of aggrevation if I played and was arbiter.
Jimmy has never once contacted me by email or private message and told me everything. As others have noted in previous comments, I have been kept in the dark as much as everyone else. That is just unacceptable and makes me think that something very underhanded has occurred along the way.
To not be in communication with your fellow organiser and arbiter when things are going wrong is a bad way to run anything, especially a chess tournament.
When 2012 started, I advised Jimmy in no uncertain terms that I did not want him to do any moderatoring in the WBCCC forums and that I thought it was best that he just be a player and not comment much at all. Basically to stay as low profile as possible. Jimmy has since chosen to remain almost as active as he was previously, including adjusting game titles after I clearly told him not to as I would do that.
It does seem only now that Jimmy is starting to understand what has really occurred and how many people he has burnt.
Rybka Forum moderator position
As soon as it was clear that Jimmy was not going to pay back the money to National12 and it was clear that the Rybka Forum team were not impressed with his actions, he should have been removed as a moderator immediately.
Where to from here:
1) Jimmy has to be removed as a Rybka Forum moderator
2) Jimmy has withdrawn from the tournament
3) Jimmy should not be allowed to re-enter a WBCCC event, or anything Rybka Forum official events, until the money to National12 has been re-paid, or at least some money has been re-paid and National12 is satisfied that the full money will be re-paid.
4) Jimmy has written a full statement that covers all events from day one till now, detailing the situation with sponsors, National12's money and all other events covered above or by other posters. In this case, the best response is that a person who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.
Only after 3 and 4 have occurred that it should be entertained that Jimmy be allowed to be admitted to anything WBCCC.
WBCCC 2012 Organiser and Arbiter.
> 3) Jimmy should not be allowed to re-enter a WBCCC event, or anything Rybka Forum official events, until the money to National12 has been re-paid, or at least some money has been re-paid and National12 is satisfied that the full money will be re-paid.
I think this should be arranged between Jimmy, National12 and the Rybka Team, as it's my understanding Paul's money was finally used to pay the prizes, the money would be owed to the Rybka Team, otherwise it's like doubling the debt.
All the money not used for prizes would be given back to Paul, of course.
> it's my understanding Paul's money was finally used to pay the prizes
Uly, Paul's money have been used by TheHug for his own purposes. He actually received the money to pay prizes and he never gave us any money. This one is the most clearest point of all.
The fact that Rybka Forum has decided to pay part of the prizes, only changes relationships between debtors and creditors, but does not certainly alter at all prior statement.
>I think this should be arranged between Jimmy, National12 and the Rybka Team, as it's my understanding Paul's money was finally used to pay the prizes, the money would be owed to >the Rybka Team, otherwise it's like doubling the debt.
like always,distorting the reality:the fact is he made fraud against Paul AND AFAINST ALL OF THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE FORUM,INCLUDING THE WINNERS OF THE WBCCC 1,WHO NEVER RECEIVED WHEN WAS THE MOMENT THE MONEY THAT PAUL SENT TO HIM TO PAY THE PRIZES
that is a fraud,and returning the moned(SOMETHING THAT NEVER HAPPENED),isnt enough to repair it;at real life,you make a fraud,and returning the money isnt enoug to evade the 'jail' or the conviction that the judge impose to you...
and even he lied to everyone of the forum,so the ban is well deserved,as a lot of people is claiming
that he made,at real life,is a fraud and reurning the money NEVER WONT BE ENOUGH,AND THAT EVEN IN THE CASE THAT THE MONEY IS RETURNED,THAT IT ISNT THE CASE,BECAUSE HE NEVER RETURNED,AND EVEN THE CASE HE WILL RETURN,HE WILL CONTINUE BEING A FRAUDSTER AND A LIER
so again,the ban from the forum is very very well deserved as a lot of people claims,not only Ruben and me,as you are looking
As a first action Jimmy is no longer forum moderator.
I was asked if i wanted any surplus money returned to me,i said use it to increase prize for 2012 tournament.
On the matter of banning Jimmy,i only wanted him removed as a moderator and from WBCCC.
However in view of all the acrimony it has caused it may be wisest thing to ban him from forum until at least the money is repaid,i only guessed July in an earlier post as a suitable time to be given but this is up to The Forum.
> it may be wisest thing to ban him from forum until at least the money is repaid
Okay, I'd support a temporary ban of Jimmy.
> a temporal ban
Ban him from time itself? Harsh.
En Argentina no.
Otro tema es cómo garantizar el reintegro del botín. Hay algún tipo de aval concreto?
De todas formas soy admirador de la ley del Talión.
Imaginemos que aquí aplicáramos el Código de Hammurabi, simplemente a Hug le cortarían una mano, como mínimo.
Entiendo que sería desproporcionado...
Pero bueno, apoyo in baneo temporal de Jimmy hasta que la deuda esté saldada.
Anyway, IMO most of people are really upset with his attitude and lack of explanations, much more than the fact that he missused Paul's money.
El destino del dinero estaba claro.
Esos fondos los desvió en beneficio propio.
Les sugiero a todos que investiguen un poco la jurisprudencia existente al respecto en las principales naciones.
Eso es delito, aunque se lo quiera disfrazar.
Lamento no poder escribirlo en inglés, pero seguramente Uly se encargará de traducirlo deformado en beneficio de Hug y en su propio beneficio.
Si dices tener premios para un torneo y no los tienes.
Si te envian dinero para una cosa y lo tomas para uso personal.
Si abusas de tu poder como moderador para editar posts que te comprometen.
Quieres defender lo indefendible.
No comprendo cómo puedes decir "no hay ningún problema".
Estamos frente a un personaje que en reiteradas oportunidades ha cometido engaños, estafas, malversación de fondos, entre otras cosas, y lo justificas.
Me da asco la situación, y ya comienzas a darme asco tu también.
Yo sí tengo problemas, y muchos, de tener que compartir algo, lo que sea, con "gente" como Hug.
Aquí no hay grises, es blanco o negro.
Sólo tu dices que este estafador "devuelve el dinero". Cuándo lo devuelve? Por qué medio? Cómo lo garantiza?
Te aclaro que no creo que devuelva nada, continuará con su siniestra personalidad.
Y como decimos en Argentina "Dios los cría y el viento los junta". Es natural que te empeñes en defenderlo.
Sólo espero un criterio lógico y decente de la moderación de nuestro querido Foro.
> Te aclaro que no creo que devuelva nada, continuará con su siniestra personalidad.
¿Entonces estarías de acuerdo en que a TheHug se le baneara hasta que devolviera del dinero?, por que si realmente crees que Jimmy no va a devolver nada, sería como banearlo permanentemente.
Sino, porqué debería "devolverlo"?
El delito es un hecho consumado. Si devuelve el dinero que se ha quedado, no lo convierte en un angel...
El asco aumenta más aún...
¿Entonces estarías de acuerdo en que a TheHug se le baneara hasta que devolviera del dinero?
Parece que sí crees que lo devolvería.
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