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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / New:Rybka Cluster vs Top GMs average 2800 Elo ?
Poll New:Rybka Cluster vs Top GMs average 2800 Elo ? (Closed)
1001-1200 Elo 7 11%
801-1000 Elo 2 3%
601-800 Elo 6 9%
401-600 Elo 17 26%
201-400 Elo 28 43%
Equality 5 8%
- - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-01 15:14 Edited 2012-03-01 15:17
Dear Chess Friends,

What will be the Elo difference between Rybka Cluster vs Top GMs average 2800 Elo ?

I mean,if we run Rybka Cluster under such conditions ?
1)Engine: Rybka Cluster
2)Cluster Hardware: 296 CPUs
3)Book:Superior Strong Private Book
4)Endgames:Nalimov 6-MEN
5)Full Performance (with all pieces)
6)Time Control:90min+30sec or 40/120


Thanks in advance,
Sedat Canbaz
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 15:19
Dont you believe some would like to choose something between 1 and 201 ? :grin:
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-01 16:15

>Dont you believe some would like to choose something between 1 and 201 ?


No...its not needed to be added more voting options

'Equality' is enough for those who want to make jokes :grin:

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By InspectorGadget (****) [za] Date 2012-03-08 20:31

> Dont you believe some would like to choose something between 1 and 201 ?


True that :lol:
Parent - By Quapsel (****) [de] Date 2012-03-20 20:49
Let's understand 'equality' as 'equality or less than 201'
Parent - - By Razor (****) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 19:20 Edited 2012-03-01 19:23
I'm afraid like before Sedat, too many parameters left open.  I have made a stab at suggesting some answers!  :smile:

1) How many games?  (10)
2) Equal black/white?  (Yes)
3) Would the GM have to play every day?  (No, every other day)
4) FIDE Tournament time controls apply?  (Yes, i.e., 90 minutes for the first 40 moves followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game)
5) If the GM offers a draw after first 40 moves then how does RC accept/reject offer?  (not sure how this would work?)
6) Would the GM be allowed to study the games of the cluster before going in to tournament play?  (Yes)
7) How much time would the GM have to prep before the tournament started?  (6 months)
8) Where will the contest be played from?  (In the country/town of the GMs choice)
9) Would the Rybka Cluster operator play the RC moves on a board sitting across the chess table from the GM and be linked in to RC via a WAN connection?  (Yes)

So, if the answers in brackets are OK with you then I believe it would be very close.  Somewhere between equal and a point or point and half, i.e., around 0-150 ELO range I would guess.  The more the GM can prep and benefit from this prep, the closer we would get to equality.
Parent - - By Bouddha (****) [ch] Date 2012-03-01 19:47
You should maybe add:
Is the player allowed to go to the toilets ?
Parent - - By Chess_Rambo (***) [at] Date 2012-03-02 08:51
And will RC publish the log file after each game? :wink:
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2012-03-02 11:00
Yes - a very cool HTML log file.
Parent - - By Chess_Rambo (***) [at] Date 2012-03-02 13:20
Very good. :cool:
Thus you will avoid that funny people spread rumors later, as they did with the match Kasparov - Deep Blue.
Parent - By Bouddha (****) [gb] Date 2012-03-02 15:01
Unless Lukas decides to scrap the log files because they take to much place on his HD.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-01 19:54

>1) How many games?  (10)


Only one game

>2) Equal black/white?  (Yes)


Rybka Cluster only as white

>3) Would the GM have to play every day?  (No, every other day)


Only one day

>4) FIDE Tournament time controls apply?  (Yes, i.e., 90 minutes for the first 40 moves followed by 30 minutes for the rest of the game)


Yes

>6) Would the GM be allowed to study the games of the cluster before going in to tournament play?  (Yes)


No

>7) How much time would the GM have to prep before the tournament started?  (6 months)


Only one day

>8) Where will the contest be played from?  (In the country/town of the GMs choice)


Antalya/Turkey

>9) Would the Rybka Cluster operator play the RC moves on a board sitting across the chess table from the GM and be linked in to RC via a WAN connection?  (Yes)


Yes

Hope this helps...:wink:
Parent - - By Razor (****) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 20:20
With those answers Sedat, we are unlikely to see this happen.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-02 01:03 Edited 2012-03-02 01:44

>With those answers Sedat, we are unlikely to see this happen.


Dear Razor,

Sorry,but it smells me something like you are trying to find holes in my work
But,no..problem,i am already accustomed

About your above questions,
This time i will be serious (i am not joking)

First of all,i have no any right about to tell you in which conditions (rules) exactly should be,but however here are my two cents over this issue

The most important: we need to find a rich sponsor company

Note that GMs of 2800 Elo dont play for free,but remember also that Rybka Cluster is not so cheap too

Second,we need to ask for a permission from GMs and Rybka Team (especially from Lukas Cimiotti about he is interested for a such duel or not)

About rest details,
As i mentioned before,i am not the right person to inform you about in which conditions exactly should be,but however i think the bellow conditions will be not bad:
- reversed colors
- more than 10 games (min 50-100 games is required for better conclusion)

For more information,
I think the best answers you can get from GMs and Rybka Team

Btw,please,don't take this poll too seriously, it's just for fun
Because polls are just estimations,but not reality

And last,my poll question is very simple:what is your Elo estimation of the current Rybka Cluster ?

Greetings,
Sedat
Parent - - By Razor (****) [gb] Date 2012-03-02 07:37
Re: your last question Sedat, assuming you want an answer that relates to some absolute strength as opposed to what ELO should be used for; a unit of measure that shows the difference between two chess players, then I would say the range would be too large to be that meaningful.  Given some positions it will outperform Dr John Nunn; one of the finest chess problem solvers the UK has ever had.  Given some other position, it just won't get it, i.e., perform like a patzer.
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-03 09:56 Edited 2012-03-03 10:11

>8) Where will the contest be played from?  (In the country/town of the GMs choice)


>Antalya / Turkey


One thing more,
I was not joking for Antalya (i was serious)

Note also that Antalya city is one of the modern tourism centers of Turkey and the world

Plus,Antalya region (in ancient times) has witnessed many civilizations since the era
Antalya has also witnessed one of the greatest empires: Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman
I mean,GMs (exception chess) will have possibility to visit the most historical places

Even i am ready to help of organizing a such duel: Man vs Rybka Cluster Antalya 2012

Best Wishes,
Sedat
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-03 12:51
Some interesting voting statistics so far,which are based on SedatChess's site Visitors:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/pollman-vs-machine/



60 % = 64 votes (less than 500 Elo)
40 % = 43 votes (more than 500 Elo)

Let's see (after a few days) what will be the the current voting poll results of Rybka Cluster ?!

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By magnumpi (**) Date 2012-03-18 10:13
what about

Rybka Cluster + Vasik (IM) vs 3 2800 TOP GMs ?

what do you think would be the result?

same conditions of Sedat.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-03-18 12:04
The GMs would be destroyed. It doesn't matter that there's 3 of them in the game, actually, it could be a case of "too many cooks spoil the soup" and that the ideas of the GMs intercept each other and they play weaker than if they played alone.
Parent - By Werewolf (*****) [gb] Date 2012-03-18 12:33

> The GMs would be destroyed.


Yep. It's a trivial win IMO for the Cluster.
Parent - - By magnumpi (**) Date 2012-03-19 09:33
I think you are right, they would have different ideas/plans and difficulties to decide how to choose the best move when they don't agree and thus would play weaker.
Parent - - By jaboo2 (**) Date 2012-03-27 01:35 Edited 2012-03-27 01:47
I don't think a human even has a 0.1% chance of winning against such a strong engine like Rybka running on only 10 cores so let alone running on a 296 core supercomputer monster, unless of course he/she is heavily assisted by another program running on at least 12 CPU cores like Deep Hiarcs 14 or Deep Junior 13.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2012-03-27 20:23

>I don't think a human even has a 0.1% chance of winning against such a strong engine like Rybka


Agreed...

Btw,very strange indeed,the current Rybka Cluster voting results are almost same as the results on SedatChess site
Honestly i expected much higher Elo estimations for Rybka Cluster 296 CPUs

I hope the lower Elo guess is not due to the rental price of Rybka Cluster :wink:

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By jaboo2 (**) Date 2012-03-28 03:18 Edited 2012-03-28 03:33
Rybka is a strong engine. The latest version of Rybka is strong even on 8 or 10 Xeon processor cores so let alone on 296 Xeon cores. The reason that the supercomputer Deep Blue lost to Kasparov in 1996 is that the engine was quite a weak one based almost only on brute force, despite having access to much CPU power.

This is not the case with a supercomputer running a strong engine like Rybka, plus modern Xeon processors are stronger individually than the old P2SC ones.
Parent - By siah (***) Date 2012-03-27 07:03

>It's easier for a bishop to jump over a pawn than to change square color!


Gnostic intuition.:yell:
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