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- - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 03:57
does anyone now believe that engines are crap in endgame play,on big hardware i will put up Rybka 4.1 against anyone in a normal OTB or Corr game including KI,should be fun.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 04:46
KI= King's Indian? Would you be willing to play an "endgame match" from given set positions?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-01 10:17
not from a given set position,i would hope to not get there in the first place.
Parent - - By sarciness (***) [cn] Date 2012-03-02 14:44
Ah, I thought your claim was that engines can now match correspondence players in the endgame. I believe such a claim would be wrong but I'd love to see it tested!
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-02 15:51
i think i was being a bit ambitious in my claim,however i still think that latest engines play late middlegame and endgame better than most OTB GM's,but i think this is already known.:smile:
Parent - - By kgburcham (***) [us] Date 2012-03-02 04:18
what is the challenge, at a game server?
what time control?
which server?
what is normal over the board?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2012-03-02 23:39
i am trying to get to a wriggle out position now,see above post.

however i believe that engine endgame play now is much better than the days of Shredder when everyone used to praise it.

as you have big hardware you must know that engines can change root move at huge depths as if they suddenly see the light so to speak.

In other words the latest programs on increasingly big hardware are getting much stronger in endgame play.

i still refer to specialised books in endgame play,one of my favs is Rook Endings by Levenfish and Smyslov written over 40 years ago.
Parent - By Regularuser (***) [gb] Date 2012-03-03 08:30
Yup, engines overall play endgames very strongly, normally overall better than GMs who probably make more mistakes in the endgame than any other phase.

But engines also still make basic errors in the endgame, so even a mere chess mortal like you or me can add significant value to an engine's endgame play.  I can add much more value to an engine's endgame play than I can to an engine's middlegame play.

I feel we are currently at the point with endgames that were at with middlegames a few years ago.   Go back a  few years and engines didn't necesarily play middlegames that well in terms of good postional play / "plans" but were strong anyway because they were already tactical monsters.    Now they are just good in almost every respect at most types of middlegames (some types of KIDs bieng a notable exception as your game with Matt showed).

Engines in my opinion still rely a lot on brute force in endgames, which is fine when they are few panws, but less good with more pawns on the board.   And I think it will be much harder to round them off for endgames than middlegames becasue the nature of the problem is different.
Parent - By Razor (****) [gb] Date 2012-03-02 14:53
It depends what you mean by endgame play.  If you mean from the point where the king is used actively, then yes, even Rybka on the Cluster will play some positions poorly and the Cluster is significantly the most powerful system out there; far more powerful than the system you have.
- By rocket (***) [se] Date 2012-03-01 10:40
Depends on the contempt settings. Engines with the default settings usually lose some drawn endgames simply for the fact to keep things going.

Also define endgame..

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