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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: deka vs Mark_Eldridge 1/2 - 1/2
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- - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2012-02-02 17:04
Board #8

deka vs Mark Eldridge

Good Luck to both players!
Parent - - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-03 23:10
Good luck deka.
Parent - - By deka (****) [ee] Date 2012-02-04 14:17
GL! :smile:
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 15:22
Thanks.
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 14:20
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves ""]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 14:20
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/5N2/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 1

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 14:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/8/5N2/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 2

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 14:45
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqkb1r/pppppppp/5n2/8/3P4/5N2/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 2

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 14:55
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqkb1r/pppppp1p/5np1/8/3P4/5N2/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:10
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqkb1r/pppppp1p/5np1/8/2PP4/5N2/PP2PPPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 3

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqk2r/ppppppbp/5np1/8/2PP4/5N2/PP2PPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 4

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbqk2r/ppppppbp/5np1/8/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PP1P/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 4

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbq1rk1/ppppppbp/5np1/8/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PP1P/RNBQKB1R w KQ - 0 5

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbq1rk1/ppppppbp/5np1/8/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK2R b KQ - 0 5

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2"]
Parent - - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-02-04 15:30
nice and interesting choice. Positional play to follow!
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 15:30
Oh yes.
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 15:35
Just wait fireworks will follow!
Parent - By Turbo (***) Date 2012-02-04 23:33
Mark has two interesting games running... he is definitely on fire! :-)
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:35
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/3p1np1/8/2PP4/5NP1/PP2PPBP/RNBQK2R w KQ - 0 6

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 15:35
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbq1rk1/ppp1ppbp/3p1np1/8/2PP4/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQK2R b KQ - 0 6

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbq1rk1/pp2ppbp/3p1np1/2p5/2PP4/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQK2R w KQ - 0 7

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

rnbq1rk1/pp2ppbp/3p1np1/2p5/2PP4/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - 0 7

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:10
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

r1bq1rk1/pp2ppbp/2np1np1/2p5/2PP4/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 8

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:15
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

r1bq1rk1/pp2ppbp/2np1np1/2pP4/2P5/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - 0 8

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:20
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

r1bq1rk1/pp2ppbp/3p1np1/n1pP4/2P5/2N2NP1/PP2PPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 9

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:20
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

r1bq1rk1/pp2ppbp/3p1np1/n1pP4/2P5/2N3P1/PP1NPPBP/R1BQ1RK1 b - - 0 9

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:30
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

r1bq1rk1/1p2ppbp/p2p1np1/n1pP4/2P5/2N3P1/PP1NPPBP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 0 10

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 16:35
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

r1bq1rk1/1p2ppbp/p2p1np1/n1pP4/2P5/2N3P1/PPQNPPBP/R1B2RK1 b - - 0 10

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6 10.Qc2"]
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-02-04 20:06
Wow, this has got to be some kind of record in my book.  16 'green' (playable) moves for black here, and only one that is kind of doubtful.
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 17:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

1rbq1rk1/1p2ppbp/p2p1np1/n1pP4/2P5/2N3P1/PPQNPPBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 11

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6 10.Qc2 Rb8"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 17:20
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

1rbq1rk1/1p2ppbp/p2p1np1/n1pP4/2P5/1PN3P1/P1QNPPBP/R1B2RK1 b - - 0 11

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6 10.Qc2 Rb8 11.b3"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 17:25
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

1rbq1rk1/4ppbp/p2p1np1/nppP4/2P5/1PN3P1/P1QNPPBP/R1B2RK1 w - - 0 12

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6 10.Qc2 Rb8 11.b3 b5"]
- By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 18:05
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

1rbq1rk1/4ppbp/p2p1np1/nppP4/2P5/1PN3P1/PBQNPPBP/R4RK1 b - - 0 12

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6 10.Qc2 Rb8 11.b3 b5 12.Bb2"]
- - By ChessPlanet Server Date 2012-02-04 18:10
[Event "WBCCC 2012"]
[White "deka"]
[Black "Mark_Eldridge"]

1rbq1rk1/4ppbp/p2p1np1/n1pP4/2p5/1PN3P1/PBQNPPBP/R4RK1 w - - 0 13

Game 185374. In progress
[WhiteTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[BlackTime "30 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes"]
[Moves "1.Nf3 Nf6 2.d4 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.g3 O-O 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 c5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Na5 9.Nd2 a6 10.Qc2 Rb8 11.b3 b5 12.Bb2 bxc4"]
Parent - - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 18:58
Where is Nelson?
Parent - - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2012-02-04 19:07
Give him a chance tournament just started today. :smile:
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 19:20
Ok sorry.
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2012-02-04 19:11
I seen him a PM. I bet he will be on later.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-02-04 20:04
Good heavens, I had no idea this was cranking up again so soon.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-02-04 20:15
White with the early advantage, though there is still a lot of book left.  I have white with 64.8% and 28.9% draws here.  First played by Vasja Pirc, no less.

General remark: the last month or so I've been very busy reorganizing and upgrading the book. By upgrading: I acquired hundreds of thousands of good new games from various sources, and I dumped hundreds of thousands that were not good enough for inclusion (mainly a lot of older server games where I had no clue how strong the players were).  On a net basis it's clearly a great move and I can see a little better resolution in the percentages early in some lines. 

One of the interesting conclusions is confirmation that on an ELO-adjusted basis 1.d4 appears to be the strongest opening move.
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 22:04
Trust me the best white can hope for is a draw:lol::evil::twisted:
Parent - By Mark Eldridge (****) [gb] Date 2012-02-04 22:07
Forgot to say it's great to see you back.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2012-02-05 05:05

> One of the interesting conclusions is confirmation that on an ELO-adjusted basis 1.d4 appears to be the strongest opening move.


*Shock.*

Heh, I've been chickening out from main d4 openings by playing the French lately, can you make any comment on how the French has changed recently? (if it has changed at all)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-02-05 14:36
I can't comment on how French has changed.  That kind of analysis can only come from people who know that opening.  All I can do is regurgitate statistical analysis, and even that has to be truncated because so much of what I do is secretive. 

1.d4 being best is just based on aggregate winning percentage adjusted by aggregate ELOs.  The weaknesses in the methodology are compensated by the sheer number of games.
Parent - - By Kappatoo (****) [de] Date 2012-02-05 15:00
In human games, the only 'problem' with 1.e4 was (and I guess still is) that 1...c5 scores exceptionally well against it. In other words, if you ignore the Sicilian, then 1.e4 is as good as or even better than 1.d4. Is this confirmed by your data?
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-02-05 15:27
1...c5 scores best in absolute terms with 45.9%.  All the other openings combined score 44.0% in absolute terms.

In ELO-adjusted terms the comparisons are much closer.  All the major black responses to 1.e4 are within 1%, in rank order 1...c5, 1...e5, 1...e6, 1...c6.  Taking out Siclian does boost 1.e4 overall, as you suggest, but not to a great degree.

Nonetheless, doing what you propose just might be enough to to make 1.e4 the best opening.  I haven't done the math but it seems plausible.
Parent - - By Kappatoo (****) [de] Date 2012-02-05 15:33
Thanks.
I assume the Elo-adjustment takes into account both player's Elo, i.e. you do not just determine black's Elo performance?
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2012-02-05 15:53
Of course.  Bear in mind my ELO analysis combines ELOs from chess servers, human games and numerous testing individuals and organizations.  This creates useless inter-move comparisons because of the varying game source distribution for each move.  For example, 1...c5 is disproportionately influenced by engine games, while 1...d5 is very much a human/server type of move seldom seen in engine play.  Thus you might see average ELOs hundreds of points higher for Sicilian vs. Scandinavian.

That said, intra-move ELO disparities seem to hold.  In other words a 30 ELO difference is pretty consistent in influencing game outcomes no matter where the game came from, and thus mashing all the different sources together gives you a fair set of relative white-black ELO numbers, which can then go toward adjusting the empirical, or absolute, success rate.
Parent - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2012-02-06 01:07
iMO these conclusions make a lot of sense. 

1.e4 has several very solid black responses , with high draw rates along the chess history. petroff, caro-kann, french... just to mention some of them. Sicilian has also entered into the drawish territory, but due to different reasons, the (bad)  influence of computer chess.

1.d4 also has its cons, but less than e4 games. And semi closed nature of many of these games often leads to positions where accurate play is much more difficult

French opening has not changed, it has always been a solid defence...
Parent - - By Kappatoo (****) [de] Date 2012-02-05 15:05

> Heh, I've been chickening out from main d4 openings by playing the French lately


Sorry, I don't understand this comment, could you explain it? Do you mean you play the French against 1.d4? White will have to be cooperative then.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / WBCCC 2012 / WBCCC 2012: deka vs Mark_Eldridge 1/2 - 1/2
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