Poll
Which is your most preferred order for Game and number of days for WBCCC 2012? (Closed)
| 1,2,3,4 | 4 | 21% | |
| 1,2,4,3 | 1 | 5% | |
| 1,3,2,4 | 1 | 5% | |
| 1,3,4,2 | 1 | 5% | |
| 1,4,2,3 | 0 | 0% | |
| 2,1,3,4 | 0 | 0% | |
| 2,1,4,3 | 0 | 0% | |
| 2,3,1,4 | 0 | 0% | |
| 2,3,4,2 | 0 | 0% | |
| 2,4,1,3 | 1 | 5% | |
| 3,1,2,4 | 0 | 0% | |
| 3,1,4,2 | 1 | 5% | |
| 3,2,1,4 | 0 | 0% | |
| 3,4,1,2 | 1 | 5% | |
| 3,4,2,1 | 1 | 5% | |
| 4,1,3,2 | 0 | 0% | |
| 4,2,1,3 | 2 | 11% | |
| 4,2,3,1 | 0 | 0% | |
| 4,3,1,2 | 4 | 21% | |
| 4,3,2,1 | 2 | 11% |
1) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas. (this is the closest to the format used in 2011)
2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This option MAY mean having to play across Xmas.
3) 12 games, 25 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas.
4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely
Following some quite lengthy discussions and there being vastly different views, it is time for a preferential poll.
There was a poll previously held on whether to have 10 or 12 games, but near the end of the poll it was realised that there might have been a flaw in that if twelve games was adopted with 30 days initial time, it might mean having to play across Xmas, which was not pointed out at the time of poll opening and people may not have been aware of this fact.
So time for a new poll.
This is a preferential poll, which means everyone who wants to vote is asked to vote for their preferred list in order. So the option you want most you place at 1, the option you want as your second choice is 2 and so forth.
The reason this is a preferential poll rather than first past the post is that it is highly likely quite a lot of players might prefer a particular option, but are not against some of the other options. It allows the organisers to get some more information on what everyone prefers, and more in particular, what most players do NOT want to see happen. Clearly if a lot of the voters put a particular option at 4, then that option will not be used
The four Game and Number of days options for WBCCC 2012 are:
1) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas. (this is the closest to the format used in 2011)
2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This option MAY mean having to play across Xmas.
3) 12 games, 25 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas.
4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely
There is also a second poll running concurrently about whether you want the round start times to confirmed before the tournament starts, or just a few days before a round finishes and a new round is about to start. This is why that style of start time decision is not included in the poll options. To include it here would have meant another 4 options and so 40,320 possible combinations.
The poll is shown with just numbers displayed. So if you have voted in order 2, 4, 3, 1. Then this means you want 2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, as your first preference, then 4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely- as your second preference.
Please do be careful as this might be a little confusing, but hopefully there will be enough votes to give us a clear impression of what a strong majority want to see and also what they do not want to see.
Unfortunately the poll only allows 20 options, so if you want to choose any of the following four options, you will need to state them in your reply.
1,4,3,2
2,4,3,1
3,2,4,1
4,1,2,3
Poll will close Sunday 1st January 2012.
Garvin Gray
WBCCC 2012 Arbiter
2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This option MAY mean having to play across Xmas.
3) 12 games, 25 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas.
4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely
Following some quite lengthy discussions and there being vastly different views, it is time for a preferential poll.
There was a poll previously held on whether to have 10 or 12 games, but near the end of the poll it was realised that there might have been a flaw in that if twelve games was adopted with 30 days initial time, it might mean having to play across Xmas, which was not pointed out at the time of poll opening and people may not have been aware of this fact.
So time for a new poll.
This is a preferential poll, which means everyone who wants to vote is asked to vote for their preferred list in order. So the option you want most you place at 1, the option you want as your second choice is 2 and so forth.
The reason this is a preferential poll rather than first past the post is that it is highly likely quite a lot of players might prefer a particular option, but are not against some of the other options. It allows the organisers to get some more information on what everyone prefers, and more in particular, what most players do NOT want to see happen. Clearly if a lot of the voters put a particular option at 4, then that option will not be used
The four Game and Number of days options for WBCCC 2012 are:
1) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas. (this is the closest to the format used in 2011)
2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This option MAY mean having to play across Xmas.
3) 12 games, 25 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This will AVOID having to play across Xmas.
4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely
There is also a second poll running concurrently about whether you want the round start times to confirmed before the tournament starts, or just a few days before a round finishes and a new round is about to start. This is why that style of start time decision is not included in the poll options. To include it here would have meant another 4 options and so 40,320 possible combinations.
The poll is shown with just numbers displayed. So if you have voted in order 2, 4, 3, 1. Then this means you want 2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, as your first preference, then 4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely- as your second preference.
Please do be careful as this might be a little confusing, but hopefully there will be enough votes to give us a clear impression of what a strong majority want to see and also what they do not want to see.
Unfortunately the poll only allows 20 options, so if you want to choose any of the following four options, you will need to state them in your reply.
1,4,3,2
2,4,3,1
3,2,4,1
4,1,2,3
Poll will close Sunday 1st January 2012.
Garvin Gray
WBCCC 2012 Arbiter
![[mx]](/mwf/v12/flags/mx.png "Mexico")
Nice idea to separate the polls
Voted
4 3 1 2
Because:
I think getting 12 games is optimal (4&3 beats 1&2).
I think that either going over Christmas is not a big issue, or hope that round starts are announced a few days before a round finishes, in such case 25 0 time control is not necessary. (4 beats 3)
And finally, if we go for 10 games, I see no reason to stretch the tourney so that it fills the entire year. (1 beats 2)
Voted
4 3 1 2
Because:
I think getting 12 games is optimal (4&3 beats 1&2).
I think that either going over Christmas is not a big issue, or hope that round starts are announced a few days before a round finishes, in such case 25 0 time control is not necessary. (4 beats 3)
And finally, if we go for 10 games, I see no reason to stretch the tourney so that it fills the entire year. (1 beats 2)
![[in]](/mwf/v12/flags/in.png "India")
Voted: 4,2,1,3
3 gets my last vote because of 25 days. I think we need to keep it at 30 days min. True most games are getting finished before that but - the idea for 30 days was to allow for vacation time.
3 gets my last vote because of 25 days. I think we need to keep it at 30 days min. True most games are getting finished before that but - the idea for 30 days was to allow for vacation time.
> the idea for 30 days was to allow for vacation time.
Yes, but of the kind "20 0 time control with 10 days vacation time", I don't think 5 days less of vacation time makes much of a difference (if that's the only way to get 12 games).
Uly,me explicarias lo de los numeros (es un ejemplo) ''4,3,1,2'' y que significa cada uno y que orden usa?por saber que voy a votar.gracias
Por supuesto:
La opción uno (1):
Que sólo haya 10 juegos. Control de tiempo de 30 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Garantía de que no se jugarán juegos en navidad. 2 Meses de desperdicio... quiero decir, descanso, al final del torneo.
La opción dos (2):
Que sólo haya 10 juegos. Control de tiempo de 35 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Posiblemente se jueguen partidas a travez de navidad. Menos tiempo desperdiciado pero los juegos y Rounds se vuelven más largos.
La opción tres (3):
Que haya 12 juegos. Control de tiempo de 25 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Garantiza que no haya juegos en navidad. Los juegos y Rounds se acortan.
La opción cuatro (4)
Que haya 12 juegos. Control de tiempo de 30 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Si la opción 1 gana en la otra encuesta, es seguro que se juegue a travez de navidad. Si la opción 2 gana la otra encuesta, hay menos del 1% de posibilidad de jugar a travez de navidad.
Así que, elige tu opción preferida y ponla al principio, luego, pon por la que votarías si tu preferida no estuviera, y luego, pon por la que votarías si solo quedaran las otras dos.
Se puede ver que la encuesta esta muy enfocada en si cruzamos navidad o no, pero en lo personal no creo que sea tan importante.
La opción uno (1):
Que sólo haya 10 juegos. Control de tiempo de 30 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Garantía de que no se jugarán juegos en navidad. 2 Meses de desperdicio... quiero decir, descanso, al final del torneo.
La opción dos (2):
Que sólo haya 10 juegos. Control de tiempo de 35 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Posiblemente se jueguen partidas a travez de navidad. Menos tiempo desperdiciado pero los juegos y Rounds se vuelven más largos.
La opción tres (3):
Que haya 12 juegos. Control de tiempo de 25 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Garantiza que no haya juegos en navidad. Los juegos y Rounds se acortan.
La opción cuatro (4)
Que haya 12 juegos. Control de tiempo de 30 días por jugador. 1 hora de incremento de tiempo por jugada. Si la opción 1 gana en la otra encuesta, es seguro que se juegue a travez de navidad. Si la opción 2 gana la otra encuesta, hay menos del 1% de posibilidad de jugar a travez de navidad.
Así que, elige tu opción preferida y ponla al principio, luego, pon por la que votarías si tu preferida no estuviera, y luego, pon por la que votarías si solo quedaran las otras dos.
Se puede ver que la encuesta esta muy enfocada en si cruzamos navidad o no, pero en lo personal no creo que sea tan importante.
gracias por explicarmelo Uly,ahora lo entiendo
> 4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment. This will mean having to play across Xmas most likely
Wait, this is inaccurate, if option 2 wins the other poll, it means there's a <1% change of playing across Xmas.
I agree both polls are not perfect and I was aware in constructing it that what you have pointed out is possible. But it was a case of what is the worst case scenario.
I wanted to put in all eight options, the four options already listed, with adding the two other schedule options but this was not possible that I could work out.
Still, it is a preferential poll and the main idea is to get rid of the game options that are least wanted.
If I can get rid of a couple of the options from Game and Number of rounds, then I will make another poll which will combine the two current polls. That should give us a clear and definite answer. We have time to do it as play is not due to start until Sat Jan 14 at the earliest.
I wanted to put in all eight options, the four options already listed, with adding the two other schedule options but this was not possible that I could work out.
Still, it is a preferential poll and the main idea is to get rid of the game options that are least wanted.
If I can get rid of a couple of the options from Game and Number of rounds, then I will make another poll which will combine the two current polls. That should give us a clear and definite answer. We have time to do it as play is not due to start until Sat Jan 14 at the earliest.
There is an easier way to do this than to running a new poll. Clump everyone's primary choice together (which right now is 6 people for #1, 3 for #3 and 8 for #4). Throw out the loser and readd the loser's votes to their 2nd choice (which right now is 7 people for #1 and 10 for #4). Otherwise why did you bother to have us list preference order.
Yeah, I agree, we already had 10 Vs. 12 games previously in a poll, and 10 games is back again, if Garvin started throwing out the losers things would be easier.
Voted:
2,4,1,3
Just put number 3 the latest because is too fast time control for me(25 days for the whole game),and i put number 2 the first just because has 5 days more time to play the whole game
2,4,1,3
Just put number 3 the latest because is too fast time control for me(25 days for the whole game),and i put number 2 the first just because has 5 days more time to play the whole game
I wonder what happens if there are 20 1 votes
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
Looking good so far!
This will no longer happen
14 votes so far.
16
17
To answer why a new poll:
I was hoping that there would be a thumping majority in favour of one option over the others, probably unrealistic, but a hope. Also I could not get past the feeling that we may get stuck with a combined option that very few actually wants since I can not see who actually votes for which options.
I could see that if this poll was the final say, then we could end up with option 4 and also rounds scheduled before the tournament, when in fact very few people actually chose that combination and that result came from those who chose option 1 and before the tournament v those who chose option 4 and before start of next round.
So I thought that was an unsatisfactory result and potentially was not in the best interest of the tournament. I wanted to include eight options in the original vote, but 40000 different options was not possible.
So now we have a poll that will make it completely clear what format we will be going with and that everyone can state which format style they want.
I was hoping that there would be a thumping majority in favour of one option over the others, probably unrealistic, but a hope. Also I could not get past the feeling that we may get stuck with a combined option that very few actually wants since I can not see who actually votes for which options.
I could see that if this poll was the final say, then we could end up with option 4 and also rounds scheduled before the tournament, when in fact very few people actually chose that combination and that result came from those who chose option 1 and before the tournament v those who chose option 4 and before start of next round.
So I thought that was an unsatisfactory result and potentially was not in the best interest of the tournament. I wanted to include eight options in the original vote, but 40000 different options was not possible.
So now we have a poll that will make it completely clear what format we will be going with and that everyone can state which format style they want.
While I announced that polls would close Sunday January 1st, it seems clear so far that no-one as their first preference is interested in using 2) 10 games, 35 days initial time plus 1 hr increment, This option MAY mean having to play across Xmas. Even if a couple of people voted for option 2, there will not be enough votes for option 2 to affect the overall vote.
So if the numbers have not dramatically changed 24 hrs from now, I will close this poll and create a new poll which will include four options:
1) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed before the start of the tournament
2) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed a few days before the end of a round
3) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed before the start of the tournament
4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed a few days before the end of a round
As this preferential poll covers both options and will be binding, as in the final vote will be what format we will be using for WBCCC 2011, I am going to ask all voters to write in their votes by replying in the new thread, once created. As a write in system will be used, everyone has the option of choosing only one option if they want, or can allocate as many preferences as they want, up to 4 numbers in total.
So if a person only wants to vote for one number and does not want to allocate a preference, that is acceptable.
The reason for using write-in votes is three-fold:
1) All twenty four different options are evenly allocated
2) A voter can choose to allocate only one preference
3) It gives me the opportunity to see if all votes are genuine, rather than possibly the results being skewed by people who have no interest in playing in the tournament.
If a person does not feel comfortable posting their vote in public, but does want to record a vote, they can send me a private message, which will be counted in the total votes.
So the clock is ticking, 24 hrs and counting down.
So if the numbers have not dramatically changed 24 hrs from now, I will close this poll and create a new poll which will include four options:
1) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed before the start of the tournament
2) 10 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed a few days before the end of a round
3) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed before the start of the tournament
4) 12 games, 30 days initial time plus 1 hr increment AND all scheduled round times are confirmed a few days before the end of a round
As this preferential poll covers both options and will be binding, as in the final vote will be what format we will be using for WBCCC 2011, I am going to ask all voters to write in their votes by replying in the new thread, once created. As a write in system will be used, everyone has the option of choosing only one option if they want, or can allocate as many preferences as they want, up to 4 numbers in total.
So if a person only wants to vote for one number and does not want to allocate a preference, that is acceptable.
The reason for using write-in votes is three-fold:
1) All twenty four different options are evenly allocated
2) A voter can choose to allocate only one preference
3) It gives me the opportunity to see if all votes are genuine, rather than possibly the results being skewed by people who have no interest in playing in the tournament.
If a person does not feel comfortable posting their vote in public, but does want to record a vote, they can send me a private message, which will be counted in the total votes.
So the clock is ticking, 24 hrs and counting down.
> I am going to ask all voters to write in their votes by replying in the new thread, once created.
This is a great decision Garvin! I suspect the current polls are having noise introduced by them, by members that aren't going to play or others that just see a poll and vote (this has been tested on the forum in the past, if you create an option called "do not vote for this option", someone will vote for it).
Having to vote in the thread gets rid of all problems.
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