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Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / OneSlyJoker vs Weirwindle
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- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-01-27 00:01
1. e4 c5
rnbqkbnr/pp1ppppp/8/2p5/4P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 2


Is this ok sly?
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-01-31 23:52
its great Weirwindle,

Sorry ive been so busy with work. I just finished a 92.5 hr week and it was a lot of manual labor. I've already hit part of 3 jobs this week with more to come. But I am here once again.
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-01-31 23:53
1 e4    c5
2 nf3...
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-01 02:40
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6
rnbqkbnr/pp2pppp/3p4/2p5/4P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 3
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-01 17:12
3. d4...
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-01 20:57
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4
rnbqkbnr/pp2pppp/3p4/8/3pP3/5N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 4
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-01 21:13
4. nxd4...
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-02 17:31 Edited 2011-02-02 17:33
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6
rnbqkb1r/pp2pppp/3p1n2/8/3NP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 5
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-03 07:48
5. nc3
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-03 18:00
Mmm, 14 degrees, toasty. Cold as hell up here is usually known as -10 to -20.
The other night it hit -25 and -35 with wind gusts. I actually had to sleep with two blankets.
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-03 19:13
That sounds like south Korea to me the place I was born actually. I am a boney sensationally tall guy with a penchant for 72 degree weather. I am so glad I didn't have to stab the casing last night in the rig. (Stab means hold the 45' piece of pipe centered over the one down below so when they screw it together the threads don't cross) Holding that pipe at 14 less the windchill at 80 ft up would not have suited me well.
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-03 18:03
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6
rnbqkb1r/1p2pppp/p2p1n2/8/3NP3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq - 0 6
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-03 19:17
My twin sister lives in portland. Wonderful state you live in-friendly ppl and very clean highways, in texas you have to see billboards its lame.

6.Bg5

I'm avoiding 6. Be3 because...well its just too popular.
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-03 21:36 Edited 2011-02-03 21:57
I am surprised by how many people from out of state comment on how clean Maine is.
I would say that Portland is more than a little cluttered compared to the rest of the state.
If you wish to see extremely clean travel north of Bangor (nothing but trees).

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6

... e6 7. f4 is perhaps the least drawish line of the najdorf
EDIT: It helps white chances most.

r1bqkb1r/1p2pppp/p1np1n2/6B1/3NP3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QKB1R w KQkq - 0 7
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2011-02-03 21:41
Isn't the poisened pawn variation solved to a draw?
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-03 21:49 Edited 2011-02-03 21:53
It will be close if I saw a 50% win percentage for white. But I do not.
... e6 7. f4
63% white win in Rybka 4 book
54% white win in Hugebase
55% white win in Correspondence/ICCF games

compared to 6... Nc6
51% black win in Rybka 4 book
55% black win in Hugebase
49% black win in Correspondence/ICCF games

Plus ... e6 7. Qf3 scores high in correspondence games
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2011-02-03 21:53
Maybe Nelson can have a word in this.
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-03 21:55
Oh well. I like relatively unexplored lines.
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 02:01
7. Qf3
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-03 23:57
I have 7.f4 as 53.4% successful for white, but my proprietary adjustments bring that number to 54.3%.  I'm with Hugebase, which is not a surprise!

I have 7.Qf3 as 55.2% and 56.0%, respectively.  It's my #2 move, playable, and it would be #1 except for the fact that 7.f4 is the move that is played almost 90% of the time (versus Qf3 4% of the time) and my book rewards staying in book longer because a hoped-for clock advantage is worth something.

As for 6...Nc6, sorry, beg to differ there.  46.4% with 41.9% draws, which adjusts to 43.5% success--lower.  It's playable but I definitely favor 6...e6.  6...Nbd7 is also playable and seldom-played 6...Bd7 is also.  15 other choices in book don't make the cut.
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 01:29
Agreed 6. ...e6 would have been much better seeing the knight gave me an early hope.
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 02:07
wait you all got me to second guess myself 7. Qd2 is correct
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2011-02-04 02:24
How high are you?! :grin:
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 02:56
ummm 7. Qf3 gives up my knight as a freebe. i'll stick with 7. Qd2
so we are at 1 e4 c5 2. nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4.nxd4 nf6 5. nc3 a5. 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-03 22:34
7. Qd2

Yes, Portland is cluttered by comparison very pedestrian friendly though. My aunt lives up north about 45 min or an hr from Portland. Yes, there are a lot of trees up there. The head guy on the oil rig said he normally uses a different company to put the casing into the ground but after we came out and worked our tails off for him in -5 with (windchill) he is going to always call us back. This is huge! We normally have 12 set rigs and now we are going to pick up another one! That means our pay increases by as much as 1/13th.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-04 00:19
This is one of the least drawish moves, only 22.4%.  It's deceptive, too.  It is played by lower-caliber players so the success rate I've got (41.6%) does not really reflect the full potential of the move.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-02-04 02:02
Hi Nelson, is great to see you giving statistics on the Correspondence section as well! Could you please take a look at this ingoing game?

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=312246

I'm curious as to how rare is the line being played.
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-04 02:42
I'm showing 14 games.  First seen in a 2000 ICCF game, Bocanegra-Kusmierek.  4 draws, 3 white wins, 7 black wins.

I don't plan to be a correspondence commentator, actually.  But if someone asks for me to comment on something specific I am willing to share some of what I've got.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2011-02-04 03:00
Thanks, I'm glad to see the low draw percentage (huh, is 28% low?), though I didn't expect the risks being this high (I expected more white wins).
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-04 03:30
Looks are deceiving.  14 games isn't enough on which to base a solid opinion, and you don't know the success rates of the moves that have been played from here.
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 01:25
woah wait wrong move. 7. Qf3
Sorry can I do that
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-04 01:53
This guy is one sly joker.
Parent - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-04 17:27
So, is it 7. Qd2 or 7. Qf3??
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-03 23:45

> ... e6 7. f4 is perhaps the least drawish line of the najdorf


It is hard to answer this concretely because you're talking lines (not positions), and there are so many lines to compare it against.  I can say that the position after 7.f4 is 35.4% drawn, which is slightly above average compared to my book overall, but indeed is low for a Najdorf line.  Further, white has viable, well-tested moves that can drive that percentage lower.
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-04 17:28
You forgot to read my EDIT.
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 18:08
ok my answer is 1. e4 c5 2. nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. nxd4 nf6 5. nc3 a6. 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2...
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 18:11
wait thats wrong sorry weirwindle your 6.   nc6 not 6...e6
ok and this is the final one:

1. e4 c5
2. nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. nxd4 nf6
5. nc3 a6
6. Bg5 nc6
7. Qd2

Umm this is my final answer
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-04 18:26
I wrote your line down wrong Weirwindle my apologies.

1. e4 c5
2. nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. nxd4 nf6
5. nc3 a6
6. Bg5 nc6
7. Qd2...

this is my final answer. No I didn't forget to read your edit. 7. Qd2 is the only correct line. 7. Qf3 loses the knight on d4! I await your move but I have already found vastly superior lines for me to play- i.e. this game will end in a draw or win for me. I think your 6 ...nc6 has possibily cost you most if not all your chances of winning this game though its move 7 we are perhaps too early for speculation.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2011-02-04 18:43

> this game will end in a draw or win for me


You may be right, I don't know.  But saying this on the 7th move is not good manners!
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-05 01:43
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2 e6
r1bqkb1r/1p3ppp/p1nppn2/6B1/3NP3/2N5/PPPQ1PPP/R3KB1R w KQkq - 0 8
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-05 03:34
1. e4 c5
2. nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. nxd4 nf6
5. nc3 a6
6. Bg5 nc6
7. Qd2 e6
8. o-o-o ...
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-05 03:43
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2 e6 8.
O-O-O Bd7
r2qkb1r/1p1b1ppp/p1nppn2/6B1/3NP3/2N5/PPPQ1PPP/2KR1B1R w kq - 0 9
Parent - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-05 04:01
1. e4 c5
2. nf3 d6
3. d4 cxd4
4. nxd4 nf6
5. nc3 a6
6. Bg5 nc6
7. Qd2 e6
8. 0-0-0 Bd7
9. f4
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-05 04:06
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2 e6 8.
O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 h6
r2qkb1r/1p1b1pp1/p1nppn1p/6B1/3NPP2/2N5/PPPQ2PP/2KR1B1R w kq - 0 10
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-05 04:09
10. Bh4
Parent - - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-05 04:12
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2 e6 8.
O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 h6 10. Bh4 b5
r2qkb1r/3b1pp1/p1nppn1p/1p6/3NPP1B/2N5/PPPQ2PP/2KR1B1R w kq - 0 11
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-05 07:03
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2 e6 8.
O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 h6 10. Bh4 b5 11. a3
Parent - - By OneSlyJoker (**) [us] Date 2011-02-06 22:39
darn, Ive spent all weekend trying to find a win in my error-my chances of winning are looking extremely bleak at this moment. 11. a3 is a deviation I had explored from the established 11. Bxf6... it begins much stronger in some places but here on move 49 there is an entirely different story. I've tried to find an earlier root deviation but it appears the problems I am encountering go back to the move I have just made. There are some very good points to 11. a3 but doesn't show much promise over 11. Bxf6. I thought i had the game sewn up, but after a lengthy investigation that is not correct. I wouldn't call the move an error or blunder, just not something which I can say with certainty is better or worse. Guess we will have to see.
Parent - By TheHug (Bronze) [us] Date 2011-02-06 23:00
This opening has got a bad rap to it before. I have play it some OTB, its not as easy to beat as some think. But you do have a lot of ideas you can try.
- - By Weirwindle (***) [us] Date 2011-02-07 01:55
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 Nc6 7. Qd2 e6 8.
O-O-O Bd7 9. f4 h6 10. Bh4 b5 11. a3 Be7

r2qk2r/3bbpp1/p1nppn1p/1p6/3NPP1B/P1N5/1PPQ2PP/2KR1B1R w kq - 0 12
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / OneSlyJoker vs Weirwindle
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