Not logged inRybka Chess Community Forum
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Moz Vs. Vytron
1 2 Previous Next  
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-13 09:47
Thanks for accepting my challenge, good luck and remember to have fun!

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq -
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-13 19:31

> good luck and remember to have fun!


You too!

1.e4
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-14 01:25
e5
- By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-14 01:38
1. e5 e5 2. Nf3
- By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-14 02:14
Nc6
- By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-14 02:27 Edited 2010-10-14 02:35
1. e5 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3

Ooops, supposed to Nc3.  Edited.
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-14 08:35
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-14 18:15
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 

Trick or treat!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-15 06:17
Oh my god! Nice Halloween surprise! :lol:

I'm rather unfamiliar with this opening, just looking at the Wikipedia page I see it's also called the "Müller-Schulze Gambit", that could be "el Gambito de Fulano-Mengano" in Spanish, which I found hilarious :yell:

White's statistics are frightening, I can't analyze this game like the other ones, I'll try to prepare, it may take a while...
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-15 21:35 Edited 2010-10-15 21:39

> I'll try to prepare, it may take a while...


No problem.  Take your time.  There are two different ways for black to return the material that basically doom the game to a draw.  In a game played for fun with no rating points at stake, I hope you decide for a more entertaining and ambitious defense!

You've probably already seen this but others might be interested in this quality survey written by a chessfriend of mine, Paul Keiser.
http://www.chessville.com/UCO/Halloween_Gambit/UON13HalloweenGambit.pdf
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-15 21:57

> I hope you decide for a more entertaining and ambitious defense!


I'm still figuring that out! Thanks for the article, reading now.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-16 22:57
I AM scared and terrified, I will probably not know if I know what I'm doing until the game is over, but I have to accept it sooner or later so here it comes:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5

r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/5n2/4n3/4P3/2N5/PPPP1PPP/R1BQKB1R w KQkq -
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-16 23:03
It's not that bad, is it?  I'm over here thinking this is probably a terrible opening choice for the conditions...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-16 23:10

> It's not that bad, is it?


The part where I have no idea if the engines know what are they doing, is that bad. If they know what are they doing then I have a won game, I really doubt that's the case, though.

It's reminiscent of my Frankenstein-Dracula game, but in this case there's only one monster, perhaps I'm overreacting :smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-18 17:07
Alright, after taking a look at the critical variations of the article I have to admit I still don't know yet what's going on, let's see if I can squeeze something out if this.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-18 21:23
Wise choice.  The Ng6 retreat is the only serious option as black can only draw or lose after 5...Nc6.  In my view, the most difficult decision is move 7 as that's where black has to choose what type of game he wants to play; there are at least half a dozen different ways to proceed and each option has a unique character.  If nothing else, it makes for a interesting study!

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5

                                                       Conditional offer: 6...Ng8 7. Bc4

r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/5nn1/4P3/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQKB1R b KQkq - 0 6
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-19 23:28
Thanks. Yeah, it's very interesting, I had to check 6...Qe7, didn't I? But anyway, I'll accept your conditional:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4

My turn again.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-20 23:55
The most promising one seems to be this...

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-21 05:07
It's one of the better defenses but black can play greedy and not give up anything, including the bishop pair (though it has to be said that the only players I've ever seen who defend that way also play the gambit as white!)

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5

r1bqkbnr/ppp2ppp/6n1/3BP3/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R b KQkq - 0 8
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-22 20:28
Surprisingly, I'm finding this position more critical than the 7th move, it could make or brake the game.
- - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-21 18:11
I think you might get a kick out of this! :twisted:
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-21 18:40
:surprised:
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-21 18:51
Someone explain this to me. :confused:
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-21 18:59 Edited 2010-10-21 19:04
It's IDeA's MM-Delta chart and it shows all of the nodes in the tree where the best IDeA score differs from the best IA score by x%.  It's classified by severity with the top bar representing nodes where the IA score and IDeA differs by more than 10+%. 

Lopsided bars, especially in the top bar, can mean a couple of different things: if the IA engine and IDeA engine are different, the graph doesn't mean all that much.  But when the IA engine and the IDeA engine are the same, it's an indication that the engine doesn't understand the position and is having to constantly adjust the eval as the scores fail.
Parent - - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-21 19:04
So what's the conclusion? IDeA and IA give very different results?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-21 19:06
Yeah, Moz would probably beat easily an unassisted engine from this position, so the interacting job is harder than usual :smile:
Parent - By Christian Packi (****) [de] Date 2010-10-21 19:07
Got it. :smile:
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-21 19:15
Agreed.  I have a feeling that your methods will work really, really well in this type of position (it's one of the reasons I played it, to see what you could come up with) so I'm fully expecting an extremely difficult game. 

An engine automaton wouldn't stand a chance in an unholy position like this!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-21 20:37

> I have a feeling that your methods will work really, really well in this type of position


I'm not sure, I can't find a breakthrough, and it would be too arrogant for me to say that the Halloween is a draw with perfect play just because I can only find drawing variations, but if you get an easy draw out of it, I would like to play again with reversed colors.

The position behaves like a drawn position, despite engine's high evaluations, I keep having to backtrack to find new ideas for black to try, that is, white can always find a variation that simplifies things and draws at will, so if engines are just pruning the variations where white wins (because they think white should try to draw) I would be the one in trouble, THAT's what is terrifying.
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-23 17:04
All my mainlines are greedy :sad:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7

r1bqkb1r/ppp1nppp/6n1/3BP3/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq -
Parent - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-23 20:09
But that's after you returned a pawn.  :grin:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5

r1bqkb1r/ppp1nppp/6n1/3BP1B1/3P4/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QK2R b KQkq - 0 9


If you really want to be greedy then 7...d6 is the only way to fly!
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-25 19:59
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-26 06:22
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4

r1b1kb1r/pppqnppp/6n1/4P1B1/3PB3/2N5/PPP2PPP/R2QK2R b KQkq - 0 10
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-27 19:34
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5
- By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-28 18:20
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8.
Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3
- By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-10-29 19:42
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6
- By Moz (****) Date 2010-10-30 07:44
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8.
Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3

r1b1kb1r/pppq1pp1/6np/4Pn2/3PB3/2NQB3/PPP2PPP/R3K2R b KQkq - 0 12
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-01 00:19
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7

r1b1k2r/pppqbpp1/6np/4Pn2/3PB3/2NQB3/PPP2PPP/R3K2R w KQkq -
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-11-01 19:18
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7  13. f4

r1b1k2r/pppqbpp1/6np/4Pn2/3PBP2/2NQB3/PPP3PP/R3K2R b KQkq - 0 13
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-01 23:49
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7 13. f4 O-O
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-11-05 01:48
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7 13. f4 O-O 14. O-O

r1b2rk1/pppqbpp1/6np/4Pn2/3PBP2/2NQB3/PPP3PP/R4RK1 b - - 0 14
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-05 10:53
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7 13. f4 O-O 14. O-O Nxe3
- By Moz (****) Date 2010-11-05 17:23
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7 13. f4 O-O 14. O-O Nxe3 15. Qxe3
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-07 09:37
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7 13. f4 O-O 14. O-O Nxe3 15. Qxe3 f5
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-11-13 04:50
I haven't forgotten it's my move - it's just that I suspect the move is critical and I'm naturally indecisive in such positions!  :confused:
Parent - - By dragon49 (****) [us] Date 2010-11-13 05:12
I'm glad to see your post.  I'm not sure if your move in our game is critical, but it looks like you are working hard to score the full point!
Parent - - By Moz (****) Date 2010-11-16 21:04

> I'm not sure if your move in our game is critical, but it looks like you are working hard to score the full point!


Yes that's definitely true!  It will only be another day or two before I post a move.
Parent - By dragon49 (****) [us] Date 2010-11-16 21:37
Thanks for checking in.  When the game is over, I'd love to chat about it a bit, and then of course challenge you to a game with colors reversed.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-11-13 06:30
No problem, thanks for telling me the reason of the delay, and take your time!
- By Moz (****) Date 2010-11-16 21:04
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nxe5 Nxe5 5. d4 Ng6 6. e5 Ng8 7. Bc4 d5 8. Bxd5 N8e7 9. Bg5 Qd7 10. Be4 Nf5 11. Qd3 h6 12. Be3 Be7 13. f4 O-O 14. O-O Nxe3 15. Qxe3 f5 16. Bf3 

I tried hard to overrule this move but in the end I couldn't convince myself that I was right!
Up Topic Correspondence Chess / Correspondence Chess / Moz Vs. Vytron
1 2 Previous Next  

Powered by mwForum 2.27.4 © 1999-2012 Markus Wichitill