Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Force a given opening in Rybka Aquarium 2010 with trees
![[se]](/mwf/v12/flags/se.png "Sweden")
I´m new with Aquarium and I'm wondering what's the best way of forcing it to play a given opening (for training). Supposed that I'm interested in getting Rybka to play 1 ... e6 every time I play 1 e4.
I´ve been reading about trees and tree configurations and I come up with a couple of ways to achieve this but I want to know what is, in your opinion, the best. Or if there are any other ways to do it.
So I'm going to describe the two methods that I know of
First method
1) Create a new tree configuration from i.e. NarrowBook. Let's call this "OnlyFrench2"
2) replace "maintree" with "maintree_onlyfrench" in "Main tree path:"
3) mark 1...e6 as "Good move" in the Tree in Sandbox mode
Second method
1) Create a new tree configuration from i.e. NarrowBook. Let's call this "OnlyFrench"
2) replace "discarded" with "discarded_onlyfrench" in "Discarded tree path:"
3) mark all alternatives other than 1...e6 as "Discarded move" in the Tree in Sandbox mode
The Aquarium manual suggest that there is a way to force it to play a certain opening using only discarded moves trees (in chapter 11). But it lacks an example so I´m not sure if they mean my second method or if there is something else that can be done.
Can anyone post how we are supposed to created those discarded moves trees mentioned in the manual? It would be really interesting if anyone can provide an example for each of the alternatives that they use in the manual...
1) One that only plays the gambit openings in your opening book
2) One that never plays the Sicilian
3) One that only plays queen pawn openings as white.
4) One that whenever possible plays the Sicilian Dragon as black
I´ve been reading about trees and tree configurations and I come up with a couple of ways to achieve this but I want to know what is, in your opinion, the best. Or if there are any other ways to do it.
So I'm going to describe the two methods that I know of
First method
1) Create a new tree configuration from i.e. NarrowBook. Let's call this "OnlyFrench2"
2) replace "maintree" with "maintree_onlyfrench" in "Main tree path:"
3) mark 1...e6 as "Good move" in the Tree in Sandbox mode
Second method
1) Create a new tree configuration from i.e. NarrowBook. Let's call this "OnlyFrench"
2) replace "discarded" with "discarded_onlyfrench" in "Discarded tree path:"
3) mark all alternatives other than 1...e6 as "Discarded move" in the Tree in Sandbox mode
The Aquarium manual suggest that there is a way to force it to play a certain opening using only discarded moves trees (in chapter 11). But it lacks an example so I´m not sure if they mean my second method or if there is something else that can be done.
Can anyone post how we are supposed to created those discarded moves trees mentioned in the manual? It would be really interesting if anyone can provide an example for each of the alternatives that they use in the manual...
1) One that only plays the gambit openings in your opening book
2) One that never plays the Sicilian
3) One that only plays queen pawn openings as white.
4) One that whenever possible plays the Sicilian Dragon as black
![[de]](/mwf/v12/flags/de.png "Germany")
first, you may want to press the keys 2,3,4,5 and 8 for the colours. it's faster.
The meaning of the colours can be changed. go to tree->options->settings->move colours . That means you can make discarded moves the top and use them as choice, or you use the 5 colours for different repertoires and switch between them by changing which one is on top. What the colours mean is defined by you.
The idea behind discarded moves was to take moves out of a book, but to keep the old colour, which means those moves require more analysis, but are not bad.
The meaning of the colours can be changed. go to tree->options->settings->move colours . That means you can make discarded moves the top and use them as choice, or you use the 5 colours for different repertoires and switch between them by changing which one is on top. What the colours mean is defined by you.
The idea behind discarded moves was to take moves out of a book, but to keep the old colour, which means those moves require more analysis, but are not bad.
![[es]](/mwf/v12/flags/es.png "Spain")
marking colors using 2 and 5 keys is the fastest way. It is a good idea to add Play% column to your configuration, in order to see how it changes when you color your moves. To fine tune these settings you can set Play values manually.
If I remember well, play% values are stored in discard tree
If I remember well, play% values are stored in discard tree
it doesn't seem like play% is stored in discarded or maintree, it looks like it's computed from the good/interestig/.../discarded stored in both maintree and discarded.
Because I can get 1.... e6 play% = 100 using both methods, either marking it as a good move (and that is stored in the main tree) or marking all the others response as discarded (which goes to the discarded)
Then, what is the best practice? I mean if you wanted to do practice different opening would you have a different tree configuration for each or you will have a tree configuration "myopenings" that you update with good/discarded. what is the recommended way to get the behaviour described in the chapter 11 of the Aquarium manual?
The method that I'm currently using is the first. I mean I have a tree configuration for each opening I want to practice and each tree configuration has a different maintree and discarded (no tree configuration shares those, because otherwise the good/discarded moves in one appears in the others as well). Then I force the opening by setting the desired move as good (that raises the Play% to 100 if it is the only good move). Would you say that is the proper way to do it?
Because I can get 1.... e6 play% = 100 using both methods, either marking it as a good move (and that is stored in the main tree) or marking all the others response as discarded (which goes to the discarded)
Then, what is the best practice? I mean if you wanted to do practice different opening would you have a different tree configuration for each or you will have a tree configuration "myopenings" that you update with good/discarded. what is the recommended way to get the behaviour described in the chapter 11 of the Aquarium manual?
The method that I'm currently using is the first. I mean I have a tree configuration for each opening I want to practice and each tree configuration has a different maintree and discarded (no tree configuration shares those, because otherwise the good/discarded moves in one appears in the others as well). Then I force the opening by setting the desired move as good (that raises the Play% to 100 if it is the only good move). Would you say that is the proper way to do it?
![[gr]](/mwf/v12/flags/gr.png "Greece")
The way you do it is one way
You can read this i-book, that explains how the whole bonus system works
Having a separate configuration per opening is more logical and more managable.
On the other hand, even if you have everything in one place, there is no problem too.
If you want to play a certain opening-variation. Just set play the first moves of the line and start playing from there.
For example if you want to play the Bayonett Attack in KI, there is no need to have a special configuration to do that. Play the first moves on the board and start from there.
You can read this i-book, that explains how the whole bonus system works
Having a separate configuration per opening is more logical and more managable.
On the other hand, even if you have everything in one place, there is no problem too.
If you want to play a certain opening-variation. Just set play the first moves of the line and start playing from there.
For example if you want to play the Bayonett Attack in KI, there is no need to have a special configuration to do that. Play the first moves on the board and start from there.
thank you very much for the i-book, it's really good. Specially the part about how the Play% is calculated.
And you're right when you say that I don't really need a tree configuration to try the opening. Although I think it will help to memorize the moves if I play from the beginning and force the computer to make the responses that I want. I just want to try it.
Thank you again for all the responses I think I have now a working setup.
And you're right when you say that I don't really need a tree configuration to try the opening. Although I think it will help to memorize the moves if I play from the beginning and force the computer to make the responses that I want. I just want to try it.
Thank you again for all the responses I think I have now a working setup.
I just created a blog post summarizing what have been said here. I'm posting it here for reference.
http://rubenlaguna.com/wp/2010/09/19/training-specific-opening-with-rybka-aquarium/index.html
http://rubenlaguna.com/wp/2010/09/19/training-specific-opening-with-rybka-aquarium/index.html
![[fr]](/mwf/v12/flags/fr.png "France")
Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Aquarium / Force a given opening in Rybka Aquarium 2010 with trees
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