Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / My most useful engines-(Shredder and Hiarcs top the list!)
In a recent thread I commented that I believe that there are three basic groups of engine users:
Group A; Primarily use engines to test, play, and compare against other engines.
Group B: Primarily use engines in correspondence chess or centaur like play on the internet.
Group C: Primarily use engines for their own OTB chess improvement, ie: game analysis, playing partners, opening prep, tactical testing etc. etc.
Now I have obviously painted a VERY broad picture and I KNOW there is overlap between all three groups. BUT I have noticed that what one finds important in a chess engine is directly influenced by what group he or she would land in from the above list.
I fall flatly into group C. (with just a bit of group A)
So absolute ELO rating is not always the most important thing to me (it is important of course but not everything)
So that being said here are the engines that are most important to me (all are the most current editions):
1a) Shredder: Stable, great gui, strong, great opening book, good for analysis and it makes for a good playing partner at various strength levels. Plus Shredderbases are great for analysis.
1b) Hiarcs: Very stable, great customer service, very strong, great for analysis and makes for a great playing partner. Plus Hiarcs opening book subscription is awesome (take note Rybka!) You get Hiarcs huge opening book for use with the engine (in any gui-take note rybka!!), and you get it in ctg. PLUS you gets updates for the entire year!
Shredder gets the slightest nod over Hiarcs because I use Shredder's GUI (but Hiarcs' opening book features are better) but both of them are the two most essential engines for me.
2) Rybka: Analysis is amazing!! It is an essential engine for me. And it pairs well with Hiarcs when doing game analysis. BUT it is buggy, and the opening book thing is frustrating if you don't use one of the native formats. And the limit playing strength option is not as developed as it is in Hiarcs and Shredder. But it is still an essential engine for me.
3) Junior: Great because it often gives very useful and different analysis! It is now stable that it is being funneled through the Hiarcs website and it's opening book is good. (not as good or as servicable as Hiarcs' book.) Plus I also have Junior in the Bobby Junior GUI and it is fun to play against at different levels. If Junior ever puts in limit strength in the UCI as well as Hiarcs or Shredder I will be very happy!!
Those four engines are my must haves as they serve all my needs!
However I also use and enjoy the following:
4) Zappa Mexico II: Good solid analysis, stable, and it is the engine I use to practice endgame positions. (Shredderbases are good but it doesn't fight for the draw as much...) Zappa does not have limit strength so that is a drag but I love the engine.
5) Naum: This is my clean up engine for analysis. Very strong, very good, and it will often pick a very good line that the other engines didn't. No limit strength option. But a great engine that I like practicing openings with.
6) Deep Sjeng: Good solid analysis. Never anything surprising or enlightening in it's analysis but it is always SOLID! AND other than Shredder and Hiarcs it has the best limit strength use as playing partner! So I aim to keep this engine around!
7) Crafty: Has it's own easy to use GUI and it makes use of limit strength! It has proven to be very educational as a playing partner! And extremely stable!
These four engines are of MUCH use to me as a person from Group C above. So I like having them around.
7) Stockfish: Obviously strong but other than looking for some interesting moves in analysis, it does not have much use for me. No limit strength, the opening book is just for play, and the evaluation this can be funky. Still good to have but non-essential.
8) Onno: Solid positional engine that makes good move choices but not incredibly strong (by today's standards), no limit strength option and no book. Non-essential.
9) Ktulu: I liked this engine but had a crash and lost my receipt!! :)
10) Spark: Great tactics but has gotten lost in the shuffle for analysis and game play. No limit strength option BUT Dr. D's book is good (if only he would make a ctg version..)
11) Bright: Replaced by Spark
12) Komodo; I think it is a great engine but it has never worked properly for me. So I can't tell yet. It is not on my computer at the present time.
So that is my list as person from group C.
Group A; Primarily use engines to test, play, and compare against other engines.
Group B: Primarily use engines in correspondence chess or centaur like play on the internet.
Group C: Primarily use engines for their own OTB chess improvement, ie: game analysis, playing partners, opening prep, tactical testing etc. etc.
Now I have obviously painted a VERY broad picture and I KNOW there is overlap between all three groups. BUT I have noticed that what one finds important in a chess engine is directly influenced by what group he or she would land in from the above list.
I fall flatly into group C. (with just a bit of group A)
So absolute ELO rating is not always the most important thing to me (it is important of course but not everything)
So that being said here are the engines that are most important to me (all are the most current editions):
1a) Shredder: Stable, great gui, strong, great opening book, good for analysis and it makes for a good playing partner at various strength levels. Plus Shredderbases are great for analysis.
1b) Hiarcs: Very stable, great customer service, very strong, great for analysis and makes for a great playing partner. Plus Hiarcs opening book subscription is awesome (take note Rybka!) You get Hiarcs huge opening book for use with the engine (in any gui-take note rybka!!), and you get it in ctg. PLUS you gets updates for the entire year!
Shredder gets the slightest nod over Hiarcs because I use Shredder's GUI (but Hiarcs' opening book features are better) but both of them are the two most essential engines for me.
2) Rybka: Analysis is amazing!! It is an essential engine for me. And it pairs well with Hiarcs when doing game analysis. BUT it is buggy
, and the opening book thing is frustrating if you don't use one of the native formats. And the limit playing strength option is not as developed as it is in Hiarcs and Shredder. But it is still an essential engine for me.3) Junior: Great because it often gives very useful and different analysis! It is now stable that it is being funneled through the Hiarcs website and it's opening book is good. (not as good or as servicable as Hiarcs' book.) Plus I also have Junior in the Bobby Junior GUI and it is fun to play against at different levels. If Junior ever puts in limit strength in the UCI as well as Hiarcs or Shredder I will be very happy!!
Those four engines are my must haves as they serve all my needs!
However I also use and enjoy the following:
4) Zappa Mexico II: Good solid analysis, stable, and it is the engine I use to practice endgame positions. (Shredderbases are good but it doesn't fight for the draw as much...) Zappa does not have limit strength so that is a drag but I love the engine.
5) Naum: This is my clean up engine for analysis. Very strong, very good, and it will often pick a very good line that the other engines didn't. No limit strength option. But a great engine that I like practicing openings with.
6) Deep Sjeng: Good solid analysis. Never anything surprising or enlightening in it's analysis but it is always SOLID! AND other than Shredder and Hiarcs it has the best limit strength use as playing partner! So I aim to keep this engine around!
7) Crafty: Has it's own easy to use GUI and it makes use of limit strength! It has proven to be very educational as a playing partner! And extremely stable!
These four engines are of MUCH use to me as a person from Group C above. So I like having them around.
7) Stockfish: Obviously strong but other than looking for some interesting moves in analysis, it does not have much use for me. No limit strength, the opening book is just for play, and the evaluation this can be funky. Still good to have but non-essential.
8) Onno: Solid positional engine that makes good move choices but not incredibly strong (by today's standards), no limit strength option and no book. Non-essential.
9) Ktulu: I liked this engine but had a crash and lost my receipt!! :)
10) Spark: Great tactics but has gotten lost in the shuffle for analysis and game play. No limit strength option BUT Dr. D's book is good (if only he would make a ctg version..
)11) Bright: Replaced by Spark
12) Komodo; I think it is a great engine but it has never worked properly for me. So I can't tell yet. It is not on my computer at the present time.
So that is my list as person from group C.
You've left off Thinker! Thinker is great at coming up with wild attacking moves. Unfortunately, it is incredibly user hostile if you are not a winboard user.
> You've left off Thinker! Thinker is great at coming up with wild attacking moves. Unfortunately, it is incredibly user hostile if you are not a winboard user.
I have always wanted to try and use Thinker but I have heard of it's user hostility. I don't even know where to download it. But I think I would like it if I could ever use it. :)
![[mx]](/mwf/v12/flags/mx.png "Mexico")
> I don't even know where to download it.
Oh yeah, almost the whole Geocities domain went down, and with that the download link. However it was not direct, so you can still download Thinker 5.4D from here:
http://cid-2991af457de54bf0.office.live.com/browse.aspx/Public
Note that the Thinker that was made famous for its playing style was Thinker 5.3B (though Thinker was already famous before, 5.3B Inert was the strongest Thinker that didn't lose any style), you can also download it there (I noticed a significant drop in playing style for Thinker 5.4A, but never tested the later versions).
To analyze with it:
Download Arena:
http://www.playwitharena.com/
(Click on Arena Downloads)
Thinker does not support Infinite Analysis, what you have to do, is to "play against the engine", set a time control that makes Thinker move at the time you're interested in, paste the game you want to analyze and go to the position you're interested in, then press "Demo" (or the button that forces the engine to make a move), and wait for a while...
There it is! Thinker suggests a move and shows its score! It's actually a feat...
From the black side it will show the scores inverted (a -1.50 score means black is losing).
You will notice that Thinker (at least 5.3B Inert) will suggest crazy attacks and sacrifices (but playable), if you're into that sort of stuff, it'll be worth your time.
Thanks Vytron!
I will give that a try. Thinker does make you work for it thought doesn't it?
I will give that a try. Thinker does make you work for it thought doesn't it?
> Thinker does make you work for it thought doesn't it?
Not for me, I gave Thinker up as the time invested in it wasn't worth the reward for me, I can find such crazy moves by myself ;)
But I wouldn't go around telling people to not try it, if it weren't for the troubles to use it it'd be a main engine of mine, so people that are willing to pay the price might love it.
Thinker would definitely be one of my core engines if it weren't such an RPITA.
![[pl]](/mwf/v12/flags/pl.png "Poland")
thnx 4 your opinions..
nice day,
Sekos
nice day,
Sekos
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
You may also want to consider Glass-1.6 which has fairly well developed weaker personalities already built-in; and you can create your own personalities as well. It seems to do a pretty good job of dumbing down the play -- the 1600 ELO personality "feels" about right to me when I play against it (and I'm about 1600). It's free also...
http://www.marittima.pl/glass
http://www.marittima.pl/glass
![[ar]](/mwf/v12/flags/ar.png "Argentina")
It seems to be what I was looking for just to have fun.
This is why I like this kind of threads talking about engines from a general perspective. You always learn something new.
Thanks,
Patricio.
This is why I like this kind of threads talking about engines from a general perspective. You always learn something new.
Thanks,
Patricio.
> You may also want to consider Glass-1.6 which has fairly well developed weaker personalities already built-in; and you can create your own personalities as well. It seems to do a pretty good job of dumbing down the play -- the 1600 ELO personality "feels" about right to me when I play against it (and I'm about 1600). It's free also...
I am giving glass a try. It seems like it might be fun! Thanks.
Shining for its absence is Critter 0.70! It quickly became one of my mains and one of these engines that very often find a move that the rest of the monsters don't find (which means, those positions Critter understands best).
> Shining for its absence is Critter 0.70! It quickly became one of my mains and one of these engines that very often find a move that the rest of the monsters don't find (which means, those positions Critter understands best).
I wanted to try Critter awhile ago and the day I downloaded it I caught a virus! So that made me gun shy towards Critter. I have heard it is a great engine.
> Shining for its absence is Critter 0.70! It quickly became one of my mains and one of these engines that very often find a move that the rest of the monsters don't find (which means, those positions Critter understands best).
So I downloaded Critter 0.80 and got ANOTHER virus! That is the 2nd time I have downloaded Critter straight from the link he gave at talkchess and the 2nd time I got a virus that corrupted my entire computer. I had to restore the hard drive.
So unfortunately me and Critter are not compatible for some reason.
Well, you're really missing out, Critter 0.80 quickly obsoleted 0.70 and became my third core engine, it's a shame you can't use it.
Are you sure you're not getting false positives? It's weird you're the only one getting a virus.
> Are you sure you're not getting false positives? It's weird you're the only one getting a virus.
I agree that it is weird! But it has happened twice, and the computer gets completely and it keeps telling me every file is corrupted. And it happened both times when I started to analyze with critter! (0.70 awhile ago and then 0.80 last night)
It starts some bogus anti virus software that I never installed that "scans' my computer and won't let me try to get to my own anti-virus program.
Why not just post it here, or send it to him.
> Why not just post it here, or send it to him.
Post what? Most of my files and programs were deemed as corrupted and I lost control of the computer. I had to do a complete restore and erase the hard disk.
![[it]](/mwf/v12/flags/it.png "Italy")
Please, would you mind to submit your download to VirusTotal?
My download seems clean.
My download seems clean.
> Please, would you mind to submit your download to VirusTotal?
> My download seems clean.
I have had to erase my hard drive and restore the system and I am not about to download it again. I know it does seem weird but it is the second time it has happened.
Ouch!
If you have a bkp of your download and send it to me, I'll try to install on an old computer of mine that I'm not using: let's see what happens.
If you have a bkp of your download and send it to me, I'll try to install on an old computer of mine that I'm not using: let's see what happens.
Not advisable. Since thousands of other people were able to download the file with no problems, one can assume that if this file was the problem on his computer, it became the problem only after he downloaded it, i.e. it may contain a virus now that it didn't have before...
Thx for your advice, Banned, but it wouldn't be a serious damage. That comp is bkupd, and I was using it only for showing to students the slides of my courses.
Thx
Enrico
PS: - If I understood correctly your comment, I agree: may be he had a virus in his own comp, that contamined the .exe after downloading.
Thx
Enrico
PS: - If I understood correctly your comment, I agree: may be he had a virus in his own comp, that contamined the .exe after downloading.
> Not advisable. Since thousands of other people were able to download the file with no problems, one can assume that if this file was the problem on his computer, it became the problem only after he downloaded it, i.e. it may contain a virus now that it didn't have before...
You know this thought occurred to me as well but I do regular scans, and the same thing happened when I tried to use Critter 0.70. The first time I used 0.70 I got hit and then the other day when trying to use 0.80 the first time.
I am not sure what to make of that.
The coincidence is weird and yet no one else had a problem....???
Any thoughts?
By the way I am taking an informal poll: Which Anti-virus software do you prefer? I am using AVG but am ready to do away with it. Someone on talkchess advised Eset, and it looks pretty good.
Maybe you had a virus on your machine that was activated when it saw a file with the word critter in its name...
> Ouch!
>
> If you have a bkp of your download and send it to me, I'll try to install on an old computer of mine that I'm not using: let's see what happens.
I didn't back that file up at all. Once the virus hit I just erased the entire hard drive.
> Once the virus hit I just erased the entire hard drive.
That's too drastic, isn't it? I've been infected by several Trojan Horses, none of them have damaged my data.
Usually you'd just delete the infected files, sometimes there's just a couple of them.
> That's too drastic, isn't it? I've been infected by several Trojan Horses, none of them have damaged my data.
>
> Usually you'd just delete the infected files, sometimes there's just a couple of them
Whatever it was that hit me would not allow me to access anything. It was "scanning" my computer and had disabled my anti-virus software. My computer was no longer in my control.
I don't see any other way that I could have gotten it under control.
It sounds like you got a rootkit. Those can range from difficult to impossible to get rid of. Formatting is a last resort though and I have managed to avoid it, but not without a fight.
First off all anytime you see something crazy happening like it's "scanning" and you know it's something that isn't one of your own, make sure to ctrl+alt+del and kill the process asap. If you can still access the internet get something like malware bytes, the avg you are using will pick up many as well. Google the symptoms you are having (be careful of what turns up, rootkits can misdirect searches), find out if there's a specific and known rootkit you are dealing with, which may have a specific solution. If you really cannot get control (stuff is running that simply renders things unusable) try safe-mode. If you cannot get into it, or the same problems remain then go for repair boot disks. What you can do with these is boot a temporary os that can access your windows partition, go in and delete suspicious files + run anti-virus/anti-malware tools + view startup programs/modules.
Still though there was always every indication to me that rootkits could be designed in such a way that there would be nothing you could do to get rid of them besides format.
As far as I know AVG is the best free anti-virus software. ESET being the best overall, but you must pay for it.
Rootkits are terrible things to get, and I wish bad things on the people that make them. Vundo is a good example of one.
First off all anytime you see something crazy happening like it's "scanning" and you know it's something that isn't one of your own, make sure to ctrl+alt+del and kill the process asap. If you can still access the internet get something like malware bytes, the avg you are using will pick up many as well. Google the symptoms you are having (be careful of what turns up, rootkits can misdirect searches), find out if there's a specific and known rootkit you are dealing with, which may have a specific solution. If you really cannot get control (stuff is running that simply renders things unusable) try safe-mode. If you cannot get into it, or the same problems remain then go for repair boot disks. What you can do with these is boot a temporary os that can access your windows partition, go in and delete suspicious files + run anti-virus/anti-malware tools + view startup programs/modules.
Still though there was always every indication to me that rootkits could be designed in such a way that there would be nothing you could do to get rid of them besides format.
As far as I know AVG is the best free anti-virus software. ESET being the best overall, but you must pay for it.
Rootkits are terrible things to get, and I wish bad things on the people that make them. Vundo is a good example of one.
Thanks for the tips..it had never occurred to me that I could have stopped the process. Once started I thought it had me!
I am going to be switching my anti-virus software soon, and you are the second person to recommend ESET. Someone also recommended Avast.
Either way I am going to buck up and buy a better anti-virus.
I am going to be switching my anti-virus software soon, and you are the second person to recommend ESET. Someone also recommended Avast.
Either way I am going to buck up and buy a better anti-virus.
AVG used to be the best, now it's a bloated resource-hog that may turn your computer into a tortoise, definitively I'd not recommend it if you're going to have chess engines running in the background. So it may be the best choice for security but I didn't find the "price" was worth it.
Last time I had a rootkit that turned my computer into a SPAM machine, that would send emails all day and night. The problem was that most my bandwidth was being used for that, so surfing the internet was extremely slow. I couldn't find a solution for almost two weeks, then I asked for assistance at these forums:
http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f51/
Those guys really know their stuff, they gave instant assistance and I solved my problem within two days. So for any question I suggest you visit that forum.
I recommend Avast, last time I checked it was better than commercial alternatives like Norton, McAfee, Panda or Kaspesky, so NOT because it's commercial it means it's better!
Last time I had a rootkit that turned my computer into a SPAM machine, that would send emails all day and night. The problem was that most my bandwidth was being used for that, so surfing the internet was extremely slow. I couldn't find a solution for almost two weeks, then I asked for assistance at these forums:
http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f51/
Those guys really know their stuff, they gave instant assistance and I solved my problem within two days. So for any question I suggest you visit that forum.
I recommend Avast, last time I checked it was better than commercial alternatives like Norton, McAfee, Panda or Kaspesky, so NOT because it's commercial it means it's better!
> I recommend Avast, last time I checked it was better than commercial alternatives like Norton, McAfee, Panda or Kaspesky, so NOT because it's commercial it means it's better!
I use it on both of my machines. It has a free version. All you do is registor for a year at a time. I trash Norton and McAfee. All they did was tie up resources.
![[br]](/mwf/v12/flags/br.png "Brazil")
I have all the engines you mentioned. The only recommended for Playchess is Rybka.
But for analysis, HIARCS, Shredder , Stockfish and Zappa. For others I have not formed
an opinion.
Paulo Soares
But for analysis, HIARCS, Shredder , Stockfish and Zappa. For others I have not formed
an opinion.
Paulo Soares
![[gb]](/mwf/v12/flags/gb.png "United Kingdom")
i do not play on playchess.in corr games which is what i play.i only use a max of 4 engines one of which is Zappa but you need big hardware to get the best out of it otherwise it is a waste of time,and even with 8 cpu i prefer it to run for hours before i would take notice of its AN.just my take on the arguement.the other engines i favour are R4,Naum 4.2 and engine X.sometimes look with Stockfish but its evals are crazy imho this is my opinion only.i am very suspicious of Stockfish and have had it crash(exception) just like engine X.
When I analyze positions, I do not like to leave the engine to think long.
I prefer to force the move and make a line. This line will be my reference
to other lines. I use a lot the takeback. Frankly, I do not know if it's the best,
but it's the way I like to do.
I agree when you talk about stockfish, the evaluation has some problems.
Uri put a position here, and in Talkchess, showing this.
Paulo Soares
I prefer to force the move and make a line. This line will be my reference
to other lines. I use a lot the takeback. Frankly, I do not know if it's the best,
but it's the way I like to do.
I agree when you talk about stockfish, the evaluation has some problems.
Uri put a position here, and in Talkchess, showing this.
Paulo Soares
> i only use a max of 4 engines one of which is Zappa but you need big hardware to get the best out of it otherwise it is a waste of time
I'd disagree
, back on my 1CPU days, I had to do interactive analysis (or as you call it, jump AN) to "emulate" higher depth, and I was doing decently against people with much faster hardware. Once I reached 4CPU the analysis methods had to change, but for Zappa, where emulating higher depth still works, so that I analyze the positions that Zappa would presumably analyze if it was left running for hours, but on much shorter time. On the games where I'm relying on Zappa, I didn't find anything else to do to find the best moves as fast as possible than this.So, with the right analysis method, Zappa is a must, even on Quads.
I agree that Zappa is a must. It is my 2nd favorite engine.
Vytron, do you know whether Zappa loads any built in endgame or material imbalance tables? The ram footprint is always bigger than the hash I load. I just loaded Zappa Mexico I with 1 Gig of hash, however, task manager shows it is using a little more than 1,200 meg.
Vytron, do you know whether Zappa loads any built in endgame or material imbalance tables? The ram footprint is always bigger than the hash I load. I just loaded Zappa Mexico I with 1 Gig of hash, however, task manager shows it is using a little more than 1,200 meg.
> do you know whether Zappa loads any built in endgame or material imbalance tables?
No idea. Zappa always keeps impressing me, sometimes I think it even has built in learning, since I would reach, say, Depth 20 and x move at score 0.32, I unload the engine and go to do other things, the next day I resume the analysis 2 halfmoves later, and there it is, the same 0.32 score at depth 18. It's probably showcases how good is Zappa at stability, rather than having hidden learning, though.
I wish Zappa would support fixed ply. My own elostat supports the rating lists, having Zappa Mexico II around 200 points lower than Rybka, however Zappa is clearly better in some positions. I'd love to play a fixed ply (ply handicap, with Zappa taking more plies) Match between Zappa and Rybka 4. There should be a way to program a gui play fixed ply matches, even if engines do not support fixed ply. Simply send a "stop" (or whatever the uci command to stop analyzing) command to the engine when the gui sees it has hit a certain ply.
I hope Zach releases Rondo at some point!
I hope Zach releases Rondo at some point!
I myself have been using Fixed Depth for analysis (and fixed time for endings), it considerably saves time as I don't need to be stopping infinite analysis and making the move on the board every time. It would be on my wish list for Rondo, for sure, but not before searchmoves.
Zappa doesn't support any of that, we're lucky it supports MultiPV as otherwise it would be unusable.
Zappa doesn't support any of that, we're lucky it supports MultiPV as otherwise it would be unusable.
The most amazing thing about Zappa is that the executable is date stamped 01/26/2008 and it is still a top engine. The Rondo announcement was one of the most exciting chess anouncements in a long time, but it would be extra cool if Anthony Cozzie would make a personal comeback!
Zappa is, and probably always will be, my favourite engine. I wish I had bigger hardware on which it could really shine, but nevertheless it does well on a quad.
Ultimately, all the matters is the strength of the move you make and your understanding of the position. Therefore, using multiple engines, on what basis do you decide which of the various moves are best?
> and your understanding of the position.
I don't think that matters much, at least in corr chess I've been somewhat successful by just being a centipawn grabber, and in complex positions, mostly not knowing what's going on.
It might not matter to you, but it means a lot to me. Her most highly rated line in the "current" position is often not the best line. Grey matter is required even in CC.
> Ultimately, all the matters is the strength of the move you make and your understanding of the position. Therefore, using multiple engines, on what basis do you decide which of the various moves are best?
That is the point. Once I have a few different choices from a few different engines, I try to look deeply at each choice and see which one I think is best. That way I am actually studying the positions and hopefully learning as I go. I don't use engines in engine rooms or for correspondence. I only use them as playing partners and/or for help with analyzing my games or master games.
And I agree that my understanding of the position is the key. That is why the different choices help. They make me look deeper into the position than I already have.
![[pe]](/mwf/v12/flags/pe.png "Peru")
The same way you decide which move is best when using only one engine, but with many engines you have sometimes many very different opinions.
![[fr]](/mwf/v12/flags/fr.png "France")
hello ,
thanks for your analysis of this top chess engines...
i am agree with many of yours conclusions .. but very surprise about Fritz !
not a word about fritz ? why don't you use Fritz ?
( fritz is very strong in endgames with rooks ....certainely the best one.)
cordialement
thierry
thanks for your analysis of this top chess engines...
i am agree with many of yours conclusions .. but very surprise about Fritz !
not a word about fritz ? why don't you use Fritz ?
( fritz is very strong in endgames with rooks ....certainely the best one.)
cordialement
thierry
> not a word about fritz ? why don't you use Fritz ?
>
> ( fritz is very strong in endgames with rooks ....certainely the best one.)
I had never purchased fritz for a few reasons.
1) I was slow to really understand appreciate chessbase but having purchased the 2009 lite premium package I am starting to like it. (I wanted ChessOk stuff to be better but it wasn't)
2) Fritz tends to not get a lot of talk up in the various forums so I kind of brushed it off. (wish I hadn't)
SO having begun to enjoy Chessbase, I just recently purchased an older copy of Fritz 10 (the viva media version) for cheap and am now enjoying that engine and GUI as well. (Shredder GUI is still my favorite, but Shredder and opening books can be a little futzy sometimes)
Topic The Rybka Lounge / Computer Chess / My most useful engines-(Shredder and Hiarcs top the list!)
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