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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 4 on minimum requirement computer vs recommended
- - By joms [ph] Date 2010-06-18 01:14
May i know what will happen on the following computer systems if I install Rybka 4.

a) Minimum Requirement
Operating System :Microsoft Windows XP (Service Pack 3)
Processor : Intel Pentium III at 1.0 GHz
Memory : 512 MB RAM

b) Recommended Requirment
Operating System :Windows Vista
Processor : Intel Core 2 Quad at 2.4 GHz
Memory : 3 GB RAM

and just for curiosity's sake:

1) what if I use a Windows XP Service pack 2 - Will it not install?
2) what if I use a 256MB Ram - Will it not install? or will the program just be super slow?
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) [us] Date 2010-06-18 01:32
why don't you upgrade to SP3???

anyway i'm assuming this is chessbase requirements or something; i think they just write down random stuff. the recommended requirements at any rate make no sense.

to use rybka 4 you basically just need a computer with windows, as far as i know. you may have to use a free GUI like arena (google 'arena chess' and see if they list requirements but i can't imagine they would be very steep or incompatible with whatever you have). arena is a 100% fully functional & fairly easy to use GUI & this way you can make sure everything will run fine before buying rybka 4. experiment with the included free engines if you want, or the rybka demo which you can download on this site; they will effect computer performance no differently than rybka (rybka just plays a much meaner game of chess :evil:). if everything checks out fine order rybka 4 UCI from this site or chessok.com & install it into arena or the GUI of your choice.

for your RAM, the most imporant thing is that you make absolutely sure to set rybka's hash tables low, probably no higher than 64MB (maybe lower, maybe even quite abit lower...it's been awhile since i've had a computer w/ that amt of ram -- check the task manager to see how much windows + the GUI is using).

it might be more cost efficient, btw, to first spend that money on at least a -bit- of a hard drive upgrade...256MB RAM!!! o_O
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-18 08:20
It should run fine but you lose the right to complain about problems. :smile:

Vas
Parent - - By Quapsel (****) [de] Date 2010-06-18 12:49
Did anyone check, whether this 'Minimum Requirement' is really requiered?
As I tried in a VM Rybka3 could run unter Windows98 on a machine with less more than 128 MB (140MB worked 'well', but 128MB let R3 work halting in the beginning).
What ist the real R4-minimum?
And where could she stand against other engines on modern hardware?
Quap
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-06-18 15:40

> What ist the real R4-minimum?


For RAM, anything that has already the OS set up, and the GUI set up, as still has a 2MB of free RAM (actually, at least 10MB of RAM free for other Rybka things) should manage Rybka 4.

For a Processor, any processor that supports 32bit should suffice (I recall a member reporting that an earlier Rybka was running fine in a dinosaurian processor, this hasn't changed so Rybka 4 should be able to run in Pre-Pentium III).

For OS, Windows 2000 is not supported, so I guess pre-Windows 2000 isn't supported too.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-19 07:31
Please note that on most computers which aren't officially supported, Rybka will still run.

Vas
Parent - - By hebroots (**) [us] Date 2010-06-21 21:52
This thread is very interesting, and I remember that the subject of clock speed and # of cores, length of game, etc, have been discussed quite a bit in the past, as to what makes Rybka run best.  I am considering buying a new updated computer and I am in a quandary about what will run Rybka faster.  What I mean is hopefully to get to deeper depths in the same amount of time.  Just looking at Intel processors, i5 vs i7, there are quite a few differences.  Some of the i5's with duo core have higher listed clock speeds (including turbo boost) than some of the quad core i7's.  I will be running a laptop so I am looking for the best combo.  I was wondering how the number of cores makes a difference vs clock speed.  I figure on getting 4GB RAM in any case.  The desktops, especially the Gamers, run even faster but I am sticking with a Laptop.

Running Rybka 4 with a 32 bit single core has been devastating since so many seem to be able to run to much deeper depth faster which shows up against me after several moves.  My computer just does not seem to see certain moves coming ahead of time (blitz games 10 min or less) until too late :(. 

Any suggestions, Vas? :confused:  Does Rybka need "hyperthreading" capability?
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-22 06:31
Main factors (given equal architecture, like i5/i7):

- higher clock speed gives proportionally higher program speed
- two as many cores gives 1.7x higher effective speed
- 64 bit operating system gives 1.8x or so higher speed

Vas
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-06-22 16:22

> - 64 bit operating system gives 1.8x or so higher speed


I think it was 1.6x (when matching 64bit 1CPU versus 32bit 2CPU, the multicore is expected to win) for Rybka 3, is Rybka 4 faster for this? (or is 32bit of R4 less optimized?).
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-22 06:31
Also: hyperthreading is not useful.

Vas
Parent - - By hebroots (**) [us] Date 2010-06-22 18:19
Thanks very much for that note, Vas.  I think the debate runs on at great length for higher clock speed dual core vs lower clock speed quad core, but as is often stated it depends on the application.  It seems many here are practically running Cray supercomputer hardware to play chess :eek: so I am still at the low end of the game.  For a desktop I would not be so analytical but with a laptop one must compare bang for the buck on total $$ invested, clock speed, laptop cooling, weight, graphics, hard drive rpm, screen size, etc. 
Most of the message boards go on about the multiple threading.  I don't intend to use the 3-D aspects of Rybka much but they are nice looking.

Right now on my single cpu I get a Fritz 12 benchmark test of about 1.9, which I hope to improve greatly.

In any case, I may end up with a higher end dual core vs a quad core, I'll watch the prices and the user reviews.

Incidentally I find that Rybka4 performance is better by checking some of the engine parameters in Fritz 12 Interface like "larger pages" and a few others nearby.

Thanks again and best wishes for your future work in chess.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-23 06:14

> I think the debate runs on at great length for higher clock speed dual core vs lower clock speed quad core, but as is often stated it depends on the application.


Yes. Chess engines are relatively core-friendly - almost any quad will beat almost any dual.

Vas
Parent - - By hebroots (**) [us] Date 2010-06-23 17:45
Now that I look at some numbers using a quad and 64 bit (vs 32 bit single), and throwing in some clock speed factor, I expect to boost my speed by a factor of 5 to 6 using a quad, maybe 3-4 using a dual.  :grin:

But, as far as relating results to search depth, how does that compute, Vas?  Is there a handy rule of thumb for relating time to search depth?  I was hoping to achieve a search depth early on in the game, once the opening book expires, of at least 2 to 4 more plies per move in the same timeframe.  Is that realistic?

Thanks
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-24 07:36
On average each iteration takes twice as long as the previous one. This is just a "frequency of PV update" issue, there is no need to worry about it.

Vas
Parent - By Quapsel (****) [de] Date 2010-06-22 19:39

> For RAM, anything that has already the OS set up, and the GUI set up, as still has a 2MB of free RAM (actually, at least 10MB of RAM free for other Rybka things) should manage Rybka 4.


Really???
Rybka3 on Windows98 with less than 128MB didn't work. :-(
And Windows98 should work with 16MB. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_98
Is it really Arena, that is so relative RAM-hungry?
I thought I had to look at Rybka3!

Quap
- - By joms [ph] Date 2010-06-18 02:24
ummm I do not intend to get into an argument on why I won't just upgrade to SP3 or perhaps just upgrade my RAM and such. I do have a Pentium i5 with 4GB of RAM, etc etc.

The reason why I posted this is because of a debate i'm having with a friend on the effects of Rybka4 Chessbase having it run on the above given specs. How much slower/faster it will be from spec a) to b) or if it will even run.

:smile:
Parent - By yanquis1972 (****) [us] Date 2010-06-18 02:25
blegh. then have fun arguing it amongst yourselves. this is possibly the least interesting hypothetical i've ever seen composed.
- - By tomski1981 (****) [ca] Date 2010-06-18 02:32
just out of curiosity..

is there a way to figure out how much RAM to set aside? (for HASH size)

i'm sure it's based on at least 3 factors:
1) number of moves analyzed (x)
2) averge depth analyzed to (y)
3) # of PV (z)

i suppose a formula would look something like:

a(x) * b(y) * c(z) * d = HASH SIZE

where a, b, and c are constants for the corresponding values of x, y, and z. And where d is also a constant that converts everything into MB of RAM

Perhaps there is no formula, but is there a rule of thumb?
Parent - - By tomski1981 (****) [ca] Date 2010-06-18 02:36
another question that i'm curious about :razz:

how does the i7 720 compare with a Q9450? i know it's 1.6GHz vs 2.6GHz chips, but would the i7 still outperform the Q9450? if so (or if not), but how much?

Thanks! :lol:
Parent - - By tomski1981 (****) [ca] Date 2010-06-18 02:43
hmm, i just realized i'm comparing a desktop (Q9450) processor to a mobile one (i7 720)... with similar speeds, would the i7-920 (and definitely the i7-930) blow the Q9450 out of the water?
Parent - By pokerpawn (***) [be] Date 2010-06-18 03:11

> would the i7-920 (and definitely the i7-930) blow the Q9450 out of the water?


yes fatser clock , faster ram (DDR3), SSE instructions, etc....
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / Rybka 4 on minimum requirement computer vs recommended

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