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Parent - - By tralala (*) [de] Date 2010-06-05 16:29
That would be something like, I sent out a personalized version to Harry Schnapp and six hours later this specific version was put online for download.
Parent - By Hannibal (**) Date 2010-06-05 16:43 Edited 2010-06-05 17:02
Alex Naumov caught someone sharing his chess engine when he downloaded it off the net and compared the watermarked executable to the one he sent to only one customer. Someone earlier mentioned that this is how they traced the leaked version to Felix and Harry, but apparently that did not really happen.  It would have at least helped to narrow the suspects down from "'around' 25" to 2 if not sealed the deal. Maybe not enough to convict, but enough to say so-and-so is responsible for the leak.
Parent - - By Hannibal (**) Date 2010-06-05 16:29 Edited 2010-06-05 16:33
"smoking gun" is used to refer to conclusive evidence, which is obviously lacking here.  Why don't you tell me how you think people are normally caught pirating software or movies.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-06-05 16:39
You didn't answer the question.

In cases I have worked on, this would be considered rather compelling evidence. If this case goes to court it will, for instance, be sufficient to request the records of the ISP relating to Harry Schnapp to be handed over for examination. I'm not sure if he wants that.
Parent - By Hannibal (**) Date 2010-06-05 16:56 Edited 2010-06-05 17:01
Traced IPs, watermarked executables, etc.  Any of these things or a combination thereof would carried 10x more weight than this stuff about the exclusion of the 960 version. 

> If this case goes to court it will, for instance, be sufficient to request the records of the ISP relating to Harry Schnapp to be handed over for examination. I'm not sure if he wants that.


That's a pretty big if and if I were Felix I would have seen that this process was at least initiated before I label people as criminals.

> I'm not sure if he wants that.


I am not sure he wants that either. But, will we ever know? I doubt it. Like I said before, this will likely end up as another cloud of doubt and uncertainty to hang over rybkaforum.net from premature and unproven accusations of misconduct and illegality.  It's very easy to state that he is supported by an "overwhelming body of evidence" or  even "compelling evidence", it is quite another to actually demonstrate this in a courtroom which is what should happen before you publicly condemn them as criminals.
Parent - - By buffos (Silver) [gr] Date 2010-06-05 16:33
Its seems pretty obvious to me. Also the excuse about sons and grandchildren is so pathetic , that actually shows what kind of person he really is. Denying the obvious. Its very funny that all his family is so fanatical supporting his chess books :) LOL
Parent - - By AWRIST (****) Date 2010-06-05 17:36
Just for those here who dont speak German. He put the blame on his kids because of the multiple accounts, he then stated that he himself were the biggest coward because he let time running out befort apologizing to Sedat. But now the hype: as what the uploaded files are concerned, no that were impossible that anyone of his kids could have done such an act, because for the really real sensitive stuff, there Harry would guaratee that Harry believed only into Harry and God - in that line - you get the slip of tongue?? I hope that you all understood what HS had practically confessed. The accounts that were his sons and sons of sons but the uploading, that could only be HS himself or else God by chance. :)  At least yesterday this was on CSS, the German computerchess forum. If it werent all so sad this could well make it under the first places for best real-life satires in Europe.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2010-06-05 18:38 Edited 2010-06-05 18:43

> he let time running out befort apologizing to Sedat


No...unfortunately nobody (from the attacking user) contacted me or i did see any apologizing...
For example here is the original message,where i waited almost 2 years:

From here i call out to the attacking user: come on the scene and cantact me. I take it easy,i am just wondering who
is this clever person behind of those nicks ?! Then i can promise that everything will be ended friendly and that information
will be private,otherwise i will use my rights and will make complaint against the attacking users at the Law Court !


Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By AWRIST (****) Date 2010-06-05 19:03
Sorry Sedat. I believed what HS had written. But even this was a lie. Hi Sedat, just a little note from my side. Please dont let yourself be disturbed in your hobby by internet quarrels. One doesnt even know for sure who is hiding behind all these names. Either you like chess and do it for yourself and a couple of friends or you are going nuts. Because often there is no nice solution. Apparently, Sedat, and I speak as a professional, the internet attracts mentally disturbed people. This cant be avoided otherwise than by simply concentrating yourself on your nice hobby. Please dont let yourself be impressed by fools. Life is way too short to be wasted by unneccessary actions. What would apologies from HS bring well to you? The best is you do your own good thing and simply ignore him. I wish you all the best with your webpages and tests and also books.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2010-06-05 19:29
Thanks for your understanding...its ok,now i feel much better- the justice was done !

> What would apologies from HS bring well to you?


It's too late i think...but anyway maybe i will forgive him maybe not,the time will show up

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By AWRIST (****) Date 2010-06-05 19:43
If you forgive him that would be the best for your own peace of mind, that's for sure. You're really a sympa-type of guy!
Parent - - By Axel Caro (**) Date 2010-06-05 20:59

> Just for those here who dont speak German. He put the blame on his kids because of the multiple accounts, he then stated that he himself were the biggest coward because he let time running out befort apologizing to Sedat.


Where did you read, that HS apologized to Sedat? I read the german post from HS, but I could only find, that he stated, that he "will apologize to Sedat on next occasion". http://forum.computerschach.de/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=25967;hl=
Parent - - By AWRIST (****) Date 2010-06-05 22:23
Think again about your question.
Parent - By Axel Caro (**) Date 2010-06-06 20:14
I am not shure if it became clear what I meant.

You worte:

> I believed what HS had written. But even this was a lie.


I put this in connection to:

> He put the blame on his kids because of the multiple accounts, he then stated that he himself were the biggest coward because he let time running out befort apologizing to Sedat.


Just aksing for clarification. I am neither accusing nor defending Harry Schnapp because

1. open fora are not the place to become personal (especially not in juristical issues)

2. I don't know him personal

3. I have limited access to critical information
Parent - - By djbl (**) [gb] Date 2010-06-05 17:05
the worst thing of all is that this guy actually puts the blame onto his grandsons!! jeez. how low can you go? and on the multi-accounts/sedat thing - why on earth would someone intimidate another human being just because of opening books for gods sake, i mean, come on? it is mighty disturbed if you ask me. i can't blame sedat one bit for asking himself if computer chess is even worth it when there are characters that intent on giving you a hard time, all because of some sick sense of competition. it is trully mindboggling. i mean, somewhere in the world is a guy who will not rest until he is king of all opening books, the opening books master (cough), and he will stalk and torment all those who dare to defy him. it is like the plot to a stephan king novel.
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2010-06-05 19:07
Thank you for kind words...

Btw,one of his sons live in Romania :) :
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_view=threads&p=232614&t=24852

But thanks to Swami (moderator of Talkchess forum),we discovered him that he is from Germany (Harry's computer)

1.Mail:

Hello Swami,

Can you check please that person ''theodor pintilie'' is really from Romania or from Germany ?

Thanks for reporting it to me, Sedat. I think he's from Germany (checked his IP address)

I will send the complaint report to Administrator, who will then take action against this person

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Mail:

Hello Swami,

Thanks a lot for your efforts

And can you do another favour for me,can you please check the IP address of Harry Shnapp ?

With a big possibility behind of Theodor is Harry !

Best,
Sedat

Hi Sedat,

Excellent find! Yes, they seem to be the same person, their IP addresses and service provider closely matches to that of German provider.

I will forward the complaint to the administrator who could verify and disable one of the accounts.

Thanks,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note:the above messages are the original mails (without any modifications) which have been done almost 2 years ago with Swami from TalkChess forum !

Best,
Sedat
Parent - - By buffos (Silver) [gr] Date 2010-06-05 19:41
sorry , but if all this is true (which i  think is) then that guy has a problem and should see a doctor. There is a desperate need for attention and recognition.
Is anybody sure about his age... or even having sons and grandsons?
Parent - By Arrière Pensée (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 20:25 Edited 2010-06-05 20:29
I thought twice about giving him a DSM IV diagnosis- but he does appear to have the ear markings of a Personality Disorder ( Histrionic).

Addendum:

"People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can be successful socially and professionally. People with histrionic personality disorder usually have good social skills, but they tend to use these skills to manipulate other people and become the center of attention."
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2010-06-05 18:27
Hello Felix !!

You are just Great ! Many Thanks...

It seems  ''Rybka 4 Leak + Attacking User Mystery Solved !!

More Information coming soon:
http://sedatchess.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_11

Best Regards,
Sedat
Parent - - By briggo (*) [se] Date 2010-06-05 22:51
keep up the good work Sedat!
Parent - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2010-06-06 15:08
Thank you :)

Best,
Sedat
Parent - By rarara (**) Date 2010-06-05 19:31
i don't know who is guilty or not for whatever

what i know (or believe to know, lol):
it is just normal nowadays to block not-wanted people from a forum
admins of forums tend to be the jury, the judge and the executive on such people
the one that will learn the most out of this situation is for sure felix

Also Felix: nicht unterkriegen lassen, alles wird gut :)
Parent - By Quapsel (****) [de] Date 2010-06-05 19:41
It is necessary to allow Harry to present the Facts he knows about it here and now.
Perhaps he knows Facts You do not know or think, they are irrelevant.
And perhaps these Facts contradict with those you have explained.
If this theme really is to deal in public as you decided in a startling man-destroying way, public should not hear only the impeachment but also the defence!

Quap

PS:
Felix, have you read, perhaps in school, Böll's "Die verlorene Ehre der Katharina Blum" and reflected about the story?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Honour_of_Katharina_Blum
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_verlorene_Ehre_der_Katharina_Blum.
Parent - By Arrière Pensée (Gold) Date 2010-06-05 21:38
This Thread Could be a remake  of Alfred Hitchcock's movie "The Trouble with Harry" .  The Forum Doesn't quite know what to do with the body!!!
Parent - - By Patricio (***) [ar] Date 2010-06-05 22:34
Sorry, but I don't understand one thing. Might be I'm simply lost because I don't have background, but anyway..

Receiving an email from "Stefan S." account signed with "Regards, Harry" wasn't something strange? Why did you send R4 files after receiving that kind of email?

Regards,

                  Patricio.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2010-06-05 22:45
I wondered about it, but then he sent another message with his "Harry Schnapp" account. I wondered why he had a second account, but didn't really check.
Of course if I would have had contact to the "Stefan S." account only, I would have never sent the email.
Parent - - By h1a8 (***) [us] Date 2010-06-06 01:35 Edited 2010-06-06 01:38
Did you send him the 960 version to him later? If so how later? Also it seems this DarkAvenger999 guy is a kid (teen to young adult) that speaks good english. I saw some videos he posted from a year ago.
Parent - By inactiveaccount (*) Date 2010-06-06 07:29 Edited 2010-06-06 08:24
Hi

That's what I thought too. The English of *********** is too good for HS. And secondly, the Rybka Team should go after him.

VG
Gerhard
Parent - - By h1a8 (***) [us] Date 2010-06-06 01:05
Well if what you say is true then it still doesn't prove Harry leaked anything.

Here are my possibilities. If any are faulty please tell me where as I'm still working on my logical deduction skills.

First, it could have been ONE of Harry's son's or grandchildren who created those accounts (and not multiple) and in which HE had access to Harry's account also.

Second, it is clearly possible for two close family members to share similar patterns of typing. Thus your statement "That doesn't make sense when taking the patterns and messages from the "Harry Schnapp" nick into account." is not true.

Third, Harry would have only stated "there are more versions left" (PLURAL used) if you told him that there were more. Did you? If you didn't then it is totally illogical for him to assume this. It is more logical for someone else (son or grandson) to have assumed it. Also it is possible for the statement of the leaker to be true (he HAD Rybka960 but actually didn't feel like releasing it).Thus the deduction of the supposedly Harry's statement in the package to imply that he is the leaker is faulty.

Fourth, the multiple accounts doesn't quite tie in to being the leaker. The conclusion doesn't follow. Harry could have created those accounts but it was someone else who leaked Rybka (maybe a son or another beta tester). My muffin didn't get buttered when you told us that logic.

Fifth, only for the unknowing (all of us), it is possible that Harry is being framed. Could be you or not you.

Finally, Harry did leak the Rybka4 and did create and USE those accounts.
Parent - - By Arrière Pensée (Gold) Date 2010-06-06 01:25 Edited 2010-06-06 01:29

> Well if what you say is true then it still doesn't prove Harry leaked anything.


IMHO-these are all fallacious arguments- to go along with any of them is to say that, Harry, is not responsible for who has access to his computer? It sounds like Grand Central Terminal had access! That is if anyone wants to believe that he didn't give a Shit about his work! A man obsessed with and over his work!

addendum:

For a man with Harry's characteristics to allow ANYONE on his computer is to beg the question!

(i have t make popcorn for this thread!)
Parent - - By h1a8 (***) [us] Date 2010-06-06 01:32
You didn't tell how they were fallacious. Being responsible has not to do with being purposeful. Certain characteristics do not define everything nor anything we do.
Parent - - By Arrière Pensée (Gold) Date 2010-06-06 01:36 Edited 2010-06-06 01:41
You would be much better served by going over to CCC and ask him what on this shopping list of excuses should I buy- (buy into that is, pardon me).
Parent - - By h1a8 (***) [us] Date 2010-06-06 01:41
You say things without giving proper reasons. I feel you are weak in the sense that you can be swayed by illogical logic. You are definitely emotionally intelligent.
Parent - By Arrière Pensée (Gold) Date 2010-06-06 01:46

> I feel you are weak in the sense that you can be swayed by illogical logic.


You have the right to feel whatever you want- UNCLE!
Parent - By nebulus (****) [no] Date 2010-06-06 03:25

> Second, it is clearly possible for two close family members to share similar patterns of typing.


Huh?? Do you really mean the "missing-space-disorder" is genetic? Come on...

> Third, Harry would have only stated "there are more versions left" (PLURAL used) if you told him that there were more. Did you? If you didn't then it is totally illogical for him to assume this. It is more logical for someone else (son or grandson) to have assumed it.


First of all, it was obvious that 960 would be in the final package. And since you know you didn't get the whole thing it's reasonable to assume there're more missing files.

> Fourth, the multiple accounts doesn't quite tie in to being the leaker.


No, but it shows the character.
Parent - By Aung (**) [kr] Date 2010-06-07 12:15
hi..Felix....
  All i seeing those leak was started from u...
u paid to someone is a first leak...guilty was u...
am i right.? think wisely..if u not paid to him..he can't got ...
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Silver) [us] Date 2010-06-08 04:07
This is all so pitiful.  Back in the 19th century this could have been so easily solved.

Harry, if he felt his reputation was wronged, could demand satisfaction.  He would present his card and announce that his seconds would be visiting Felix in the morning to make arrangements for a duel.

On the appointed morning, the two men would choose pistols, walk off five or ten paces, turn and fire.  Wouldn't this solve this dispute neatly?

There was a famous duel in San Francisco in 1859, the last in this country between well-born personages, in this case the chief justice of California and a sitting U.S. Senator.  I visited the site of the duel, stood right where the two men stood, where there are lonely markers signifying the event.  It was moving to think about that kind of courage.  The men must have been just 20-25 feet apart.

Ruining the story, the senator's pistol went off early, before he had a chance to take aim, and the bullet went harmlessly into the ground.  So the judge, who had not yet fired, took careful aim and shot the senator in the lung.  He died a slow, agonizing death three days later.  And to make matters worse the judge was pro-slavery while his victim was opposed to furtherance of slavery.  The wicked prosper!
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2010-06-08 06:47
Link please?
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2010-06-08 10:37
But did this "satisfy" the bystanders and those who had their opinions for one stance or another?  I guess not, since I seem to recall that a fairly significant war was begun a year later... :-)
Parent - By keoki010 (Bronze) [us] Date 2010-06-08 17:50

> But did this "satisfy" the bystanders and those who had their opinions for one stance or another? 


It surely satisfied the Senator! I'm sure the judge heard some opinions about it also. :smile:
- - By siam (**) [nl] Date 2010-06-05 17:12
Hello

This has gone all to far. I must admit that there are better ways to kling to the truth, but now it looks like that Felix has done something terrible wrong.
I expect that this Harry guy had some strange trick in his sleeve but mind you Felix is only the messenger.... (and a little too optimistic about it)
But don't forget if this Harry guy didn't play like this nothing would happen at all......

This forum is now aiming there guns at Felix... please we need a time out.

Or as we did (!) in the Netherlands... a little more tolerance...

Regards
Siam
Parent - - By Eduard (***) [de] Date 2010-06-05 22:22
Hallo Felix!

Ich möchte diesen Thread nicht auswuchsen lassen, aber ich kann es mir einfach nicht verkneifen, anzufragen wer denn "Sedat Canbaz" ist (kennst Du ihn?) und woher er kommt?

Mir ist nämlich aufgefallen dass in meisten seiner Posting (guck selber nach) ebenso Leerzeichen fehlen wie bei Harry S. Ist vielleicht Harry nun auch noch "Sedat Canbaz" bzw. umgekehrt?

Hier nur einige Kostproben aus der Forensuche! Die Stellen wo ein Leerzeichen fehlt, habe ich fett hervorgehoben. In kursiv ist mein Kommentar dazu.

-----------------

Of course i will not delete and extract,just the both books (learned) will be continued in eng-eng match
Note:the rules are same not only for the current one and for previous tournaments too

Greetings,
Sedat

Allein hier fehlt hinter dem Komma ein Leerfeld, und obendrauf im zweiten Satz hinter dem Doppelpunkt ebenso!

---------------

if you have 4Go of RAM you should use 256Mo only for Rybka, not 512 or more. Large page need more free RAM.
Really...but here (on my system) as we see right now its ok...even in the current system is located only 2GB Ram,but logfile did not report any error so far ???
I just wonder Large pages not used - user choice.,is it available ... can you check in your system ?

Hier ist das Ganze sogar drei mal vertreten, wobei hier sogar ein Komma hinter einem unnötigen Punkt dasteht oder umgekehrt.

---------------

Note:the above messages are the original mails (without any modifications) which have been done almost 2 years ago with Swami from TalkChess forum !

Best,
Sedat

Hier fehlt hinter einem Doppelpunkt ein Leerzeichen!

------------

It's too late i think...but anyway maybe i will forgive him maybe not,the time will show up

Best,
Sedat

Hier fehlt wieder ein Leerzeichen.

------------

Was meinst Du nun dazu Felix?

ED.
Parent - - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2010-06-05 22:24
The "!." is more specific. Also take the IP addresses into account and everything else written by those accounts. While one argument alone may be weak, the whole puzzle makes more sense.
Parent - - By Eduard (***) [de] Date 2010-06-05 22:40 Edited 2010-06-05 22:44
Felix,

Du weichst aus!

Die Parallelen sind unverkennbar in den meisten Postings der beiden!. (das mit "!." habe ich hier mit Absicht so geschrieben, denn es ist vom Satzaufbau grammatisch kaum ein Unterschied, ob jemand einen Satz mit "!." abschließt, oder wenn er.,setzt (hier habe ich ".," und kein Leerzeichen absichtlich so gesetzt).

Fakt ist dass beide Poster hier einen sehr ähnlichen Fingerabdruck hinterlassen, einen fast unglaublich ähnlichen - und das schon seit Jahren. Prüfe nach!

Danke,
ED.
Parent - By Felix Kling (Gold) [de] Date 2010-06-05 22:47
Well, yes, that is strange indeed, but that doesn't make sense when looking at the IPs. As I said, those details are not specific enough alone.
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2010-06-06 15:15
Ich kenne Sedat - er hat mir mal einige Fotos geschickt - und die stammten eindeutig nicht aus Deutschland. Übrigens ist sein Englisch deutlich besser als das von Harry Schnapp.

Lukas
Parent - - By Sedat Canbaz (****) [tr] Date 2010-06-07 08:02
Hello Dear Lukas !

Fırstly i'd like to thank you for the support,but really i don't understand exactly the postings in german,what that eduardo nemeth mean ???
I just wonder....is he saying that i have same signature as harry ?

Regards,
Sedat
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2010-06-07 12:37

>i don't understand exactly the postings in german,what that eduardo nemeth mean


Eduard claims you and Harry Schnapp could be the same person. I told him I know you and also I know that you definitely are not Harry Schnapp. What a strange idea. I hope he believes me.

Best regards,
Lukas
Parent - Date 2010-06-07 13:37
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / The Rybka 4 Leak / "Harry Schnapp" accounts
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