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- - By alaa78 [es] Date 2010-05-28 23:21
i have some problems with my rybka4 aquarium. shall i post it in here?
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-05-28 23:24
No, post it on the Aquarium board
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-29 06:16
Okay, apparently many people are asking for this, so I'll give this unofficial (unofficial since they contain my opinion of the parameters and whether I use them as well) answer on Rybka Parameters:

Log - Write stuff (like, communication with the GUI) to a file.

xLog - Write stuff to a HTML file (seems to only work for Opera Browser...)

Max CPU - The number of cores that Rybka will use, if this number is higher than your cores, Rybka will use them all.

CPU usage - In case you want to use less than one core, set it in this parameter.

Main Process Priority / Child Process Priority: Changes the engine priority without needing to visit the Task Manager. For instance:

When you run Rybka on a Quad, she creates 4 processes, that look like this on Task Manager (example uses 128MB of RAM):

Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 128MB - Priority: Normal. <- Main Process
Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 4MB - Priority: Below Normal. <- Child
Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 4MB - Priority: Below Normal. <- Child
Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 4MB - Priority: Below Normal. <- Child

Inherit should be to start the main process at the same priority of the GUI.

NalimovUsage - Same as in Rybka 3 (affects how much she is slowed by tablebases, default should be best).

Use Large Pages - After you set "lock pages in memory" in the OS, expect some 15% speed up if you give her 1GB Hash (or more, less hash should also give benefits but not as dramatic - only lasts until you unload the engine, then you'll probably have to reboot the computer for this to take effect again).

Always Score Main Move - With this OFF Rybka would move into looking for alternative moves in fail lows, with ON she will first give the move a score. Recommended to set it ON for analysis, OFF for games.

Display Upperbounds - With this OFF Rybka would not tell the user when a fail move happened, so if you were away from the computer you wouldn't have a way to know. Recommended to set it ON for interactive analysis, OFF for games.

(^ These two solve what was a nightmare with R3, I'm glad I was a beta tester just for those 2 parameters)

Preserve analysis - Same as R3 (Engine keeps old contents on the hash for much longer, slows her down the more positions analyzed. I chose to keep it OFF).

Clear Hash - Allows Rybka to get a fresh look at the position.

Hash File / Save Hash / Load Hash - Used for when you are going to unload the engine or reboot, so Rybka keeps the hash contents on reload (I never use this).

MultiPV_cp - Same as R3 (Controls how worse than best the moves have to be to appear on MultiPV, e.g. a value of 0 only would show moves that are exactly as good as the best move).

TCBuffer - How many seconds Rybka thinks she has subtracted from the clock. Useful for bullet (1 '0) and blitz games (3 '0) so Rybka avoids losing on time (by time stolen by the GUI or the opposing engine, like clones), and also may give a general better time management when set at 3 (setting does nothing on incremental or repeating time controls.)

TCNormal Move Time - The rate at which Rybka should play the game. Lower values will make the engine play faster, and vice versa.

TC Max Move Time - The amount of time Rybka is willing to spend in critical positions (higher values will make her think longer on such cases).

These last 3 settings are extremely sensitive to hardware, time control and even, opponent, so to see Rybka 4 shine on games, you'll probably need to experiment a lot to find the optimal settings, but the gains can be significant.

[Pieces cp] - The offset of the pieces in centipawns. Please note that the behavior is different on analysis than of games. On analysis "White" and "Black" are taken literally, so that when you analyze from the other side you get the same evaluation. On games White means "Me" and black means "The opponent", so by setting the values you are really setting how Rybka should evaluate her pieces and the opponent's, regardless of what side she's playing on.

Rook Endgame Scaling: If you see Rybka playing too much into dead drawn endgames with a rook and an extra pawn, try lowering this value. Useful for analysis of such positions, as well.
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2010-05-29 08:11

> xLog - Write stuff to a HTML file (seems to only work for Opera Browser...)


Another thing is it is not very useful for infinite analysis as I hoped for. Namely, the lines logged a rather short, and as soon as you hit say d22 the output will most likely be the same for the rest of the plies, as any changes in the PV happen relatively deep once you get that far.

> Main Process Priority / Child Process Priority: Changes the engine priority without needing to visit the Task Manager. For instance:
>
> When you run Rybka on a Quad, she creates 4 processes, that look like this on Task Manager (example uses 128MB of RAM):
>
> Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 128MB - Priority: Normal. <- Main Process
> Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 4MB - Priority: Below Normal. <- Child
> Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 4MB - Priority: Below Normal. <- Child
> Deep Rybka 4 x64 - RAM usage: 4MB - Priority: Below Normal. <- Child
>
> Inherit should be to start the main process at the same priority of the GUI.


A note from the user who had problems with R3 on this: now there is no need to set manualy main proces to Below Normal in order to get any PC responsivenes. R4 is fine on default and your PC is fine.

> NalimovUsage - Same as in Rybka 3 (affects how much she is slowed by tablebases, default should be best).


We used to talk about tbs a lot before, now it seems nobody cares that R4 default is using tbs by an order of magnitude harder and more often than R3.

> Use Large Pages - After you set "lock pages in memory" in the OS, expect some 15% speed up if you give her 1GB Hash (or more, less hash should also give benefits but not as dramatic - only lasts until you unload the engine, then you'll probably have to reboot the computer for this to take effect again).


AFAIK you don't have to reboot, but RAM is likely to get fragmented when using other applications, so it is possible once you unload R4 you won't be able to load it again with Large Pages enabled unless you reboot. Should you fire no other applications, there's no need to reboot whatsoever, just load R4 once again.

> Always Score Main Move - With this OFF Rybka would move into looking for alternative moves in fail lows, with ON she will first give the move a score. Recommended to set it ON for analysis, OFF for games.
>
> Display Upperbounds - With this OFF Rybka would not tell the user when a fail move happened, so if you were away from the computer you wouldn't have a way to know. Recommended to set it ON for interactive analysis, OFF for games.
>
> (^ These two solve what was a nightmare with R3, I'm glad I was a beta tester just for those 2 parameters)


While I commend you for this improvements, I believe you messed the other stuff (new move candidate development) at the same time with SS, see my SS thread.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-29 08:22

> While I commend you for this improvements, I believe you messed the other stuff (new move candidate development) at the same time with SS, see my SS thread.


I guess this was directed to Vas? :)
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2010-05-29 08:30
Yes, of course. :-)
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-04 13:30

> While I commend you for this improvements, I believe you messed the other stuff (new move candidate development) at the same time with SS, see my SS thread.


I'll check that thread. SS should be unchanged since Rybka 3.

Vas
Parent - - By Lukas Cimiotti (Bronze) [de] Date 2010-05-29 15:33
A big thank you for writing this down :)

Btw. XLogs are also readable with IE (but I don't know which versions work - I don't use IE)
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2010-05-29 15:36

> Btw. XLogs are also readable with IE


Only barely, at least with my IE8. Firefox zero points readability.
Parent - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-29 23:57
Vytron, an excellent starting point. However, it seems to me that there should be a way to save the Personality for a particular engine before making any changes to the default, so that one can go back to the engine setup before the changes if necessary. Is that possible?
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-30 00:05
Vytron, an excellent start, though lots of questions. But shouldn't there be a way to save the default personality for a particular engine before changing the personality?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-30 05:43
Depends on what GUI are you using, e.g. (AFAIK) Aquarium doesn't allow personalities and you have to copy the engine around for each change you want to make.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-30 13:45
How do you "copy the engine around"?
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2010-05-30 13:47
Winkey+E, navigate to the engine executable and select it, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V.
Parent - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-30 14:39
I may have a simpler way to save a Personality. Right click a Personality and Export it.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-30 03:14
Vytron: excellent summary but some clarification needed.

Where does one set the hash table size? I could not find this very important parameter.

I assume Nalimov usage should be "never" if one doesn't have Nalimov tables.

Main Process Priority/Child Process Priority. You seem to recommend the defaults in one place and Normal/Normal in another place. What is the difference between the two recommended settings?

MultiPV. Is that how many top lines are analyzed by default?

MultiPV_cp has default of 20000. What does that mean?

Pieces cp in analysis. It is unclear what this means, i.e., to implement LKs "human" settings for analysis, what would one do? "GM Larry Kaufman recommends the following adjustments as more human-like: pawns=0, knights=24, bishops=24, rooks=12, queens=0."

In any case, I cannot imagine one would use different offsets for White and Black.

                               Thanks, CMA
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-30 05:50

> Where does one set the hash table size? I could not find this very important parameter.


You do it on the GUI.

>Main Process Priority/Child Process Priority. You seem to recommend the defaults in one place and Normal/Normal in another place. What is the difference between the two recommended settings?


Rybka will be more aggressive taking resource at Normal/Normal, you'd like to use this setting if another application is stealing resources from Rybka.

>MultiPV. Is that how many top lines are analyzed by default?


No.

>MultiPV_cp has default of 20000. What does that mean?


That means that you can keep adding MultiPV lines until the next best move is 200.00 worse than the very best moves (e.g. if the next move has a value of 201.00 worse than best she won't show it). In practice a MultiPV of 20000 would include all moves.

>Pieces cp in analysis. It is unclear what this means, i.e., to implement LKs "human" settings for analysis, what would one do?


Leaving pawns at 0, putting 24 on the boxes of the knights, 24 on the 4 boxes of the bishops, 12 on the rooks's boxes, and leaving queens at 0.

>In any case, I cannot imagine one would use different offsets for White and Black.


You'd like to lower your own pieces's values when the opponent is weaker than you and couldn't handle a sacrifice, and use higher values of own pieces to avoid trades, or raise the opponent's piece values to encourage trades, and so on.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-30 13:56
"You do it on the GUI."  The Windows GUI or the Aquarium GUI?  And if so, how?

What is MultiPV?

Excellent explanations "MultiPV_cp" and  of "Pieces cp" although I would be very hesitant to put different offset values for Black and White.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2010-05-30 14:02

> "You do it on the GUI."  The Windows GUI or the Aquarium GUI?  And if so, how?


Aquarium. It's two columns to the right of the engine name.
Parent - - By cma6 (****) Date 2010-05-30 14:33
Vempele, thanks. I assume we should go for round numbers like 2048, if, say, we have 4 Gig of ram?
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2010-05-30 15:59
Yes, powers of 2.
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-04 13:28
Thanks!

Vas
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-29 19:19
For 2 questions I was asked by PM:

1. How to load R4 at startup so one can use large pages if one has low ram?

A: Just, before loading any other application, open your GUI and load Rybka 4 with large pages enabled, after this work normally.

2. Save / Load hash doesn't seem to be working?

A: In case you have problems with it:

Create a blank text file (say, hash.txt) and put it on the same directory that Rybka.exe is, now, in the box where it says "Hash File" put hash.txt (or the name that you gave it.) Now it should work. (The way you use it is, you save it before unloading Rybka/rebooting, and you load it after reloading Rybka).
Parent - - By peterhiarcs (**) [at] Date 2010-05-31 05:05
Sorry, no way to save hash works for me. It did once at the very start after installantion, I used the directory offered at Fritz GUI by default, hash was saved, but never again for a second time.
Tried with another name, tried to delete old one manually and give same name, tried the way you describe above.
When I create .txt- file manually in directory of .exe, .rsh is added in GUI-window to put name in and I cannot decline this. So I get hash.txt.rsh as name in GUI and no hash is saved.
Thanks in advance!
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-31 07:32
This is an OS issue:

Do Windows Key + E (The Vempele way, you can also double click on My PC icon on the desktop), this will bring up file manager.

Do on the menu: Tools > Folder Options > View

There Untick "Hide known file type extensions".

Now you'll see the hash.txt.rsh file, click it, wait a few seconds, click it again, now it'll be highlighted and you'll be able to change the name, get rid of the ".txt" part so you're left with a "hash.rsh" file, point the GUI to it and it should work.
Parent - By peterhiarcs (**) [at] Date 2010-05-31 14:04
Even if I don't understand why, it works. It's a little long-winded, but it works. Make .txt file, adress it as .txt.rsh, change it to .rsh and adress it as .rsh again.
Thank you!
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-30 09:46
New one:

Q: Do I have to play thousands of games to check if Rybka SSE4.2 / Large pages enabled is running faster?

A: No, just set both (Default Rybka and the other one) to one CPU, let them analyze the opening position. If the SSE42 / Large Pages enabled version is faster then... it's faster. You don't need to play several games to check this.
Parent - By Fulcrum2000 (****) [nl] Date 2010-05-30 11:35
To see if the SSE4.2 (popcnt) runs on your system is even easier. The SSE4 executable will not start on non-SSE4 systems :-)
- - By chess_pr0 (**) [us] Date 2010-05-30 17:00
using Polyglot+WinBoard is these settings seem correct or default? This is what My Polyglot looks like when I set my R4 ENGine thry Poly-GUI then hit save in my Poly.ini settings..
[Polyglot]

EngineName=Rybka 4 x64
EngineDir=C:\YaY_Ultimate_3\Winboard_X
EngineCommand=Rybka 4 x64
Book=true
BookFile=C:\YaY_Ultimate_3\Winboard_X\blo0dr0ar.bin
Log=false
LogFile=Rybka4x64.log
Resign=false
ResignMoves=3
UCIVersion=1
ShowPonder=true
CanPonder=false
SyncStop=false
PromoteWorkAround=false
KibitzMove=false
KibitzPV=false
KibitzCommand=tellall
KibitzDelay=2

[Engine]
Hash=256
Log=false
xLog=false
CPU Usage=100
NalimovPath=C:\YaY_Ultimate_3\Winboard_X\EGTB
NalimovCache=1
NalimovUsage=Normally
Main Process Priority=Normal
Use Large Pages=false
Always Score Main Move=false
Display Upperbounds=false
Preserve Analysis=false
Hash File=
Persistent Hash Play Depth=64
Persistent Hash Write Depth=10
Persistent Hash Size=16
Ponder=true
MultiPV=1
MultiPV_cp=32768
Max CPUs=2048
TC Buffer=3
TC Normal Move Time=80
TC Max Move Time=100
White Pawn cp=0
Black Pawn cp=0
White Knight cp=0
Black Knight cp=0
White King Bishop cp=0
Black King Bishop cp=0
White Queen Bishop cp=0
Black Queen Bishop cp=0
White Rook cp=0
Black Rook cp=0
White Queen cp=0
Black Queen cp=0
Rook Endgame Scaling=100
UCI_LimitStrength=false
UCI_Elo=1200
Contempt Play=15
Contempt Analyze=0
UCI_EngineAbout=www.rybkachess.com
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-05-30 22:40

> Contempt Play=15


Does this setting have any effect? It shouldn't...
Parent - - By chess_pr0 (**) [us] Date 2010-05-31 16:37
yes in testing,if you use 25= plays weak more human play 15 is for computer vs computer.. 25 is for computer vs human.
Parent - - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2010-06-01 06:33
I thought it was said there was no contempt setting on r4.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-06-01 06:44
Me too, this is unexpected.
Parent - By Geomusic (*****) Date 2010-06-01 07:01
cool
Parent - - By manos (**) [gr] Date 2010-06-01 10:51
where is the contempt button for rybka 4?
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-06-02 05:22
There isn't, the option was removed, that's why it's weird it would work.
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-04 13:33
I would remove that line about contempt from the file. There is no contempt parameter reported by the engine.

Vas
- - By oudheusa (*****) [nl] Date 2010-06-01 07:10
Does Deep Rybka UCI come with the 1-CPU version for use in Aquarium multiple engine analysis mode?
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2010-06-01 07:26
Yes, but of course you could anyway use the mp version with max CPUs set to 1.
- - By ppipper (*****) [es] Date 2010-06-02 18:35
1. Could we deduce that default R4 settings are more or less equivalent to old R3 contempt parameter =0?

2. If so, what settings should we use to get something similar to contemp= 15?

3. Do any of time controls affect R4 performance during infinite analysis?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-06-03 08:32
3. No.

For 1., it's more like equivalent to Rybka 3 Dynamic at contempt 0, you would need to change piece values to emulate Rybka 3 default. For 2., this is still being tested, apparently the settings suggested by Larry for Contempt aren't working as expected.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-04 13:36

> 2. If so, what settings should we use to get something similar to contemp= 15?


You can't duplicate it exactly, but in general you could set something like:

white pawn: 1
black pawn:  0
white knight: 2
black knight: 0
white bishop: 2
black bishop: 0
white rook: 4
black rook: 0
white queen: 8
black queen: 0

Vas
Parent - - By Friedbert (*) [de] Date 2010-06-04 19:25
Are these settings valid in games with Rybka as white and in games with Rybka as black?
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2010-06-04 19:26
In games, "White" = "me" and "Black" = "opponent".
Parent - - By Friedbert (*) [de] Date 2010-06-04 19:51
Thanks. In server games colours are given automatic. To set contempt as Vas proposes
the changes are to make for white and for black, symmetric.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2010-06-04 20:10
No. You completely missed the point.
Parent - - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2010-06-05 11:24
When Rybka plays black in a game, the "white" parameters are applied to the black pieces and vice-versa.

This doesn't apply to analysis.

Vas
Parent - By Friedbert (*) [de] Date 2010-06-05 15:02
Thank you Vas for this hint. At least I understand, how to set contempt with Rybka 4 :-)
- - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2010-06-04 08:46
This has became a Frequently Asked Question:

Q: Why does MultiPV is taking 40 hours or more to reach the next depth while the first 10 minutes of analysis it was working fine? And why are nodes going up without limit in such instances?

It's a bug, for a workaround clear the hash after switching MultiPV on.
Parent - - By Banned for Life (Gold) Date 2010-06-04 08:50
It's a bug, for a workaround clear the hash after switching MultiPV on.

The cure here is worse than the disease. You have to throw away high depth positions in the hash which might have taken many hours to generate to solve the problem...
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