![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
Vas,
I'm sure that you recognize the following game and position quite well :-)
I have a long "analysis" that leads to a final question.
The game and final position are
[Event "7th Freestyle Tournament"]
[Site "playchess.com #108121"]
[Date "2007.09.09"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Zorro Z"]
[Black "Rajlich"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C00"]
[WhiteElo "3064"]
[BlackElo "3155"]
[PlyCount "132"]
[EventDate "2007.09.09"]
[EventType "swiss"]
1. e4 {8} e6 {11} 2. Nc3 {109} d5 {22} 3. d3 {23} Nf6 {165} 4. e5 {147} Nfd7 {
17} 5. f4 {130} c5 {150} 6. Nf3 {7} Be7 {60} 7. g3 {117} b5 {369} 8. Bh3 {1003}
Nc6 {11} 9. O-O {57} b4 {11} 10. Ne2 {14} Qb6 {16} 11. Be3 {419} a5 {493} 12.
a3 {507} Bb7 {16} 13. axb4 {144} axb4 {21} 14. Rxa8+ {136} Bxa8 {7} 15. d4 {65}
g6 {15} 16. dxc5 {571} Nxc5 {24} 17. Ned4 {20} Na5 {' 3134} 18. b3 {446} Bb7 {
334} 19. f5 {280} exf5 {21} 20. Bxf5 {65} O-O {15} 21. e6 {367} fxe6 {129} 22.
Bh3 {36} Qd6 {618} 23. Bh6 {78} Rf6 {47} 24. Bf4 {16} Rxf4 {10} 25. gxf4 {8}
Nc6 {6} 26. Nxc6 {215} Qxc6 {7} 27. Ne5 {1} Qc7 {4} 28. Kh1 {64} Bc8 {299} 29.
Qa1 {193} Bf8 {12} 30. Qa8 {143} Nb7 {5} 31. Qa6 {64} Nd8 {39} 32. Qe2 {60} Kg7
{90} 33. Nd3 {182} Bd6 {10} 34. Ra1 {. 325} Bxf4 {137} 35. Nxf4 {21} Qxf4 {4}
36. Rf1 {75} Qd6 {39} 37. Qf3 {57} Qe7 {14} 38. Qe3 {52} Kg8 {35} 39. Re1 {14}
Qh4 {45} 40. Rd1 {82} Qe7 {23} 41. Ra1 {36} Bb7 {51} 42. Qe5 {11} Kf7 {29} 43.
Rf1+ {42} Kg8 {31} 44. Rf6 {36} Bc8 {41} 45. Bg4 {5} Qg7 {50} 46. Kg1 {108} h6
{58} 47. Kh1 {123} Kh7 {36} 48. h4 {4} Nc6 {25} 49. Qf4 {17} e5 {19} 50. Qf2 {3
} Bxg4 {63} 51. Rf7 {3} Bf5 {9} 52. Rxg7+ {1} Kxg7 {3} 53. Qc5 {16} Be4+ {6}
54. Kg1 {4} d4 {9} 55. Qc4 {79} h5 {32} 56. Qe6 {7} Bf3 {38} 57. Kf2 {16} Be4 {
26} 58. Ke1 {3} Bg2 {30} 59. Kd2 {20} Be4 {25} 60. Ke2 {51} Bg2 {19} 61. Kd3 {
55} Bf1+ {16} 62. Ke4 {2} Bg2+ {12} 63. Kd3 {2} Bf1+ {7} 64. Kd2 {5} Bg2 {10}
65. Ke2 {5} Be4 {24} 66. Kf2 {13} Bh1 {
Zorro Z offers a draw (Lag: Av=0.29s, max=2.8s) 40} 1/2-1/2
198: Zorro Z - Rajlich, 7th Freestyle Tournament 2007
Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a 32-bit :
67.Qd6 Be4 68.Ke2 Kf7 69.Ke1 Kg7 70.Kf2 Kf7 71.Ke2 Kg7 72.Kd2 Kf7 73.Ke2 Kg7
± (1.38) Depth: 18 00:00:41 282kN
67.Qd6 Be4 68.Ke2 Kf7 69.Ke1 Kg7 70.Kf2 Kf7 71.Ke2 Kg7 72.Qc7+ Kf6 73.Qd7 Bg2
± (1.38) Depth: 19 00:00:45 568kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.40) Depth: 19 00:00:48 725kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.38) Depth: 20 00:00:51 989kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.38) Depth: 21 00:00:59 1538kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 22 00:01:08 2193kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 23 00:01:19 2984kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 24 00:01:37 4300kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qe2 Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 25 00:02:10 6713kN
(, 09.09.2007)
Now we have the following: the white king cannot penetrate the black position at all, so it must be up to the white queen. The following are holding the black position together: the knight on c6, which is protecting the pawns on e5, d4, and b4, the bishop on the long diagonal that is protecting this beloved steed, and the king protecting the pawn on g6 that is protecting the pawn on h5. The king cannot be deflected because g7, h7, and h6 are all ways of protecting the g6 pawn, and the white queen cannot attack all of these simultaneously without going en prise to the king. Thus, white must get rid of the black bishop. This is impossible as follows: in the final position "type", if the white king is on f2 or g3, the bishop has safe squares on h1, e4, and d5, all protecting the knight. The white queen cannot attack all three of these without going en prise. If the white king is on g1 or h2, the bishop safe squares are d5, e4, and f3; again, the white queen cannot attack all three of these without going en prise. Finally, if the whit eking is on d3, the bishop has even more safe squares, all of which cannot be simultaneously attacked. Thus, the position is mathematically drawn (of course, if white pushes the c-pawn, he loses).
Question: shouldn't Rybka be able to understand these mathematical draws? Congratulations on seeing the route in this game to get into this position with 49...e5 and 50...Bxg4. How long is it before Rybka will be able to successfully evaluate such positions that one can prove with simple analysis to be drawn? This is, I guess, a subset of "fortress problems", but with perhaps a few extra "tricks". I have heard that much of the fortress problems are being addressed in Rybka 3--is this the type of position that will also be correctly evaluated?
I'm sure that you recognize the following game and position quite well :-)
I have a long "analysis" that leads to a final question.
The game and final position are
[Event "7th Freestyle Tournament"]
[Site "playchess.com #108121"]
[Date "2007.09.09"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Zorro Z"]
[Black "Rajlich"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C00"]
[WhiteElo "3064"]
[BlackElo "3155"]
[PlyCount "132"]
[EventDate "2007.09.09"]
[EventType "swiss"]
1. e4 {8} e6 {11} 2. Nc3 {109} d5 {22} 3. d3 {23} Nf6 {165} 4. e5 {147} Nfd7 {
17} 5. f4 {130} c5 {150} 6. Nf3 {7} Be7 {60} 7. g3 {117} b5 {369} 8. Bh3 {1003}
Nc6 {11} 9. O-O {57} b4 {11} 10. Ne2 {14} Qb6 {16} 11. Be3 {419} a5 {493} 12.
a3 {507} Bb7 {16} 13. axb4 {144} axb4 {21} 14. Rxa8+ {136} Bxa8 {7} 15. d4 {65}
g6 {15} 16. dxc5 {571} Nxc5 {24} 17. Ned4 {20} Na5 {' 3134} 18. b3 {446} Bb7 {
334} 19. f5 {280} exf5 {21} 20. Bxf5 {65} O-O {15} 21. e6 {367} fxe6 {129} 22.
Bh3 {36} Qd6 {618} 23. Bh6 {78} Rf6 {47} 24. Bf4 {16} Rxf4 {10} 25. gxf4 {8}
Nc6 {6} 26. Nxc6 {215} Qxc6 {7} 27. Ne5 {1} Qc7 {4} 28. Kh1 {64} Bc8 {299} 29.
Qa1 {193} Bf8 {12} 30. Qa8 {143} Nb7 {5} 31. Qa6 {64} Nd8 {39} 32. Qe2 {60} Kg7
{90} 33. Nd3 {182} Bd6 {10} 34. Ra1 {. 325} Bxf4 {137} 35. Nxf4 {21} Qxf4 {4}
36. Rf1 {75} Qd6 {39} 37. Qf3 {57} Qe7 {14} 38. Qe3 {52} Kg8 {35} 39. Re1 {14}
Qh4 {45} 40. Rd1 {82} Qe7 {23} 41. Ra1 {36} Bb7 {51} 42. Qe5 {11} Kf7 {29} 43.
Rf1+ {42} Kg8 {31} 44. Rf6 {36} Bc8 {41} 45. Bg4 {5} Qg7 {50} 46. Kg1 {108} h6
{58} 47. Kh1 {123} Kh7 {36} 48. h4 {4} Nc6 {25} 49. Qf4 {17} e5 {19} 50. Qf2 {3
} Bxg4 {63} 51. Rf7 {3} Bf5 {9} 52. Rxg7+ {1} Kxg7 {3} 53. Qc5 {16} Be4+ {6}
54. Kg1 {4} d4 {9} 55. Qc4 {79} h5 {32} 56. Qe6 {7} Bf3 {38} 57. Kf2 {16} Be4 {
26} 58. Ke1 {3} Bg2 {30} 59. Kd2 {20} Be4 {25} 60. Ke2 {51} Bg2 {19} 61. Kd3 {
55} Bf1+ {16} 62. Ke4 {2} Bg2+ {12} 63. Kd3 {2} Bf1+ {7} 64. Kd2 {5} Bg2 {10}
65. Ke2 {5} Be4 {24} 66. Kf2 {13} Bh1 {
Zorro Z offers a draw (Lag: Av=0.29s, max=2.8s) 40} 1/2-1/2
198: Zorro Z - Rajlich, 7th Freestyle Tournament 2007
8/6k1/2n1Q1p1/4p2p/1p1p3P/1P6/2P2K2/7b w - - 0 1
Analysis by Rybka 2.3.2a 32-bit :
67.Qd6 Be4 68.Ke2 Kf7 69.Ke1 Kg7 70.Kf2 Kf7 71.Ke2 Kg7 72.Kd2 Kf7 73.Ke2 Kg7
± (1.38) Depth: 18 00:00:41 282kN
67.Qd6 Be4 68.Ke2 Kf7 69.Ke1 Kg7 70.Kf2 Kf7 71.Ke2 Kg7 72.Qc7+ Kf6 73.Qd7 Bg2
± (1.38) Depth: 19 00:00:45 568kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.40) Depth: 19 00:00:48 725kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.38) Depth: 20 00:00:51 989kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.38) Depth: 21 00:00:59 1538kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 22 00:01:08 2193kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 23 00:01:19 2984kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qf1+ Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 24 00:01:37 4300kN
67.Qc4 Be4 68.Qe2 Bd5 69.Ke1 Kf6 70.Kd2 Ke6 71.Qd3 Kf6 72.Qe2 Ke6 73.Qd3 Kf6
± (1.39) Depth: 25 00:02:10 6713kN
(, 09.09.2007)
Now we have the following: the white king cannot penetrate the black position at all, so it must be up to the white queen. The following are holding the black position together: the knight on c6, which is protecting the pawns on e5, d4, and b4, the bishop on the long diagonal that is protecting this beloved steed, and the king protecting the pawn on g6 that is protecting the pawn on h5. The king cannot be deflected because g7, h7, and h6 are all ways of protecting the g6 pawn, and the white queen cannot attack all of these simultaneously without going en prise to the king. Thus, white must get rid of the black bishop. This is impossible as follows: in the final position "type", if the white king is on f2 or g3, the bishop has safe squares on h1, e4, and d5, all protecting the knight. The white queen cannot attack all three of these without going en prise. If the white king is on g1 or h2, the bishop safe squares are d5, e4, and f3; again, the white queen cannot attack all three of these without going en prise. Finally, if the whit eking is on d3, the bishop has even more safe squares, all of which cannot be simultaneously attacked. Thus, the position is mathematically drawn (of course, if white pushes the c-pawn, he loses).
Question: shouldn't Rybka be able to understand these mathematical draws? Congratulations on seeing the route in this game to get into this position with 49...e5 and 50...Bxg4. How long is it before Rybka will be able to successfully evaluate such positions that one can prove with simple analysis to be drawn? This is, I guess, a subset of "fortress problems", but with perhaps a few extra "tricks". I have heard that much of the fortress problems are being addressed in Rybka 3--is this the type of position that will also be correctly evaluated?
![[de]](/mwf/v12/flags/de.png "Germany")
One important detail: if white tries to play Qe2 and then Kd3 with the idea Kc4, then the black king can come to the center and cover the knight, maybe black can also play e5-e4-e3 and put the bishop to f5...
It seems that Ktulu 8 correctly understands this ending:
Zorro Z - Rajlich, 7th Freestyle Tournament 2007
Analysis by Ktulu 8:
67.Qd6 Kf7 68.Ke2 Bg2 69.Kd3 Bf3 70.Kd2 Bg2
= (0.21) Depth: 7 00:00:00 15kN
67.Qd6 Kf7 68.Ke2 Bg2 69.Qd7+ Kf6 70.Kf2 Bh1 71.Kg3 g5 72.Qd6+ Kf5
= (0.12) Depth: 8 00:00:00 40kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qc8 Kf6 69.Qd7 Bh1 70.Qd6+ Kf5 71.Kf2
= (0.16) Depth: 8 00:00:00 46kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Bg2 71.Kd2 Bf3
= (0.13) Depth: 9 00:00:00 79kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Bg2 71.Kd2 Bf3 72.Kd3 Kg7 73.Kc4 Kf7
= (0.11) Depth: 10 00:00:00 133kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Be4 71.Qd7+ Kf6 72.Qc8 Bg2 73.Qf8+ Ke6 74.Qg7 Ne7 75.c4
= (0.12) Depth: 11 00:00:00 259kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Be4 71.Kd2 Bh1 72.Kd3 Bf3 73.Kc4 Kg7 74.Kc5 Kh7 75.Kc4
² (0.31) Depth: 12 00:00:00 461kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Be4 71.Kd2 Bh1 72.Kd3 Bf3 73.Kc4 Bg2 74.Kb5 Bf3 75.Qd7+ Kf6 76.Kc4 Bg2 77.Kc5 Be4 78.Qd6+ Kf7 79.Qc7+ Ke6 80.Qd6+ Kf5
= (0.21) Depth: 13 00:00:00 692kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kh3 Be4 71.Kg3 Bh1 72.Kf2 Be4 73.Ke2 Bg2 74.Kd2 Bf3
= (0.13) Depth: 14 00:00:01 1455kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Ke2 Be4 73.Ke1 Bf3 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Be4 76.Kg3 Bh1 77.Qd6+ Kf5
= (0.16) Depth: 15 00:00:03 2718kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Kh2 Be4 75.Kg3 Bh1 76.Qd7+ Kf6 77.Kf2 Be4 78.Qd6+ Kf5 79.Kg3 Bh1
= (0.16) Depth: 16 00:00:04 4124kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Kf2 Bh1 75.Ke2 Be4 76.Kd2 Bg2 77.Ke1 Bf3 78.Qd7+ Kf6 79.Kf1 Be4 80.Qd6+ Kg7 81.Qc7+ Kf6 82.Kf2
= (0.13) Depth: 17 00:00:06 6441kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Kf2 Bh1 75.Ke2 Be4 76.Kf1 Bf3 77.Ke1 Be4 78.Ke2 Kg7 79.Kd2 Kf7 80.Qc5 Bf3 81.Qd6
= (0.13) Depth: 18 00:00:11 12322kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kh2 Be4 76.Qd6+ Kf7 77.Kg3 Bh1 78.Qd7+ Kf6 79.Kf2 Be4 80.Qd6+ Kf5 81.Kg3 Bh1 82.Kf2
= (0.16) Depth: 19 00:00:17 20154kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Be4 76.Ke2 Bg2 77.Qd6+ Kf5 78.Ke1 Be4 79.Kf2 Bh1 80.Kg3 Be4 81.Qd7+ Kf6 82.Kf2 Bh1
= (0.09) Depth: 20 00:00:32 39631kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke2 Bg2 77.Qd6+ Kf7 78.Kd3 Bf1+ 79.Kd2 Bg2 80.Kd1 Be4 81.Ke1 Bf3 82.Qd7+ Kf6
= (0.09) Depth: 21 00:01:24 104mN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke1 Bf3 77.Qd6+ Kf7 78.Kf2 Bh1 79.Ke2 Be4 80.Kf1 Bf3 81.Ke1 Bg2 82.Kd2 Be4
= (0.09) Depth: 22 00:02:14 173mN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke1 Bf3 77.Kd2 Bg2 78.Kd1 Bf3+ 79.Ke1 Be4 80.Qd6+ Kf7 81.Kf1 Bf3 82.Qd7+ Kf6
= (0.11) Depth: 23 00:04:03 312mN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke1 Bf3 77.Kd2 Bg2 78.Kd1 Be4 79.Qd6+ Kf7 80.Ke2 Kg7 81.Qd7+ Kf6 82.Kd1 Bg2
= (0.11) Depth: 24 00:07:14 567mN
(, 09.09.2007)
This is the only engine I know of so far that evaluates the position as equal, though Aristarch 4.50 gives +0.50, which is "close".
Zorro Z - Rajlich, 7th Freestyle Tournament 2007
Analysis by Ktulu 8:
67.Qd6 Kf7 68.Ke2 Bg2 69.Kd3 Bf3 70.Kd2 Bg2
= (0.21) Depth: 7 00:00:00 15kN
67.Qd6 Kf7 68.Ke2 Bg2 69.Qd7+ Kf6 70.Kf2 Bh1 71.Kg3 g5 72.Qd6+ Kf5
= (0.12) Depth: 8 00:00:00 40kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qc8 Kf6 69.Qd7 Bh1 70.Qd6+ Kf5 71.Kf2
= (0.16) Depth: 8 00:00:00 46kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Bg2 71.Kd2 Bf3
= (0.13) Depth: 9 00:00:00 79kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Bg2 71.Kd2 Bf3 72.Kd3 Kg7 73.Kc4 Kf7
= (0.11) Depth: 10 00:00:00 133kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Be4 71.Qd7+ Kf6 72.Qc8 Bg2 73.Qf8+ Ke6 74.Qg7 Ne7 75.c4
= (0.12) Depth: 11 00:00:00 259kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Be4 71.Kd2 Bh1 72.Kd3 Bf3 73.Kc4 Kg7 74.Kc5 Kh7 75.Kc4
² (0.31) Depth: 12 00:00:00 461kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kf2 Bh1 70.Ke2 Be4 71.Kd2 Bh1 72.Kd3 Bf3 73.Kc4 Bg2 74.Kb5 Bf3 75.Qd7+ Kf6 76.Kc4 Bg2 77.Kc5 Be4 78.Qd6+ Kf7 79.Qc7+ Ke6 80.Qd6+ Kf5
= (0.21) Depth: 13 00:00:00 692kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kh3 Be4 71.Kg3 Bh1 72.Kf2 Be4 73.Ke2 Bg2 74.Kd2 Bf3
= (0.13) Depth: 14 00:00:01 1455kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Ke2 Be4 73.Ke1 Bf3 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Be4 76.Kg3 Bh1 77.Qd6+ Kf5
= (0.16) Depth: 15 00:00:03 2718kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Kh2 Be4 75.Kg3 Bh1 76.Qd7+ Kf6 77.Kf2 Be4 78.Qd6+ Kf5 79.Kg3 Bh1
= (0.16) Depth: 16 00:00:04 4124kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Kf2 Bh1 75.Ke2 Be4 76.Kd2 Bg2 77.Ke1 Bf3 78.Qd7+ Kf6 79.Kf1 Be4 80.Qd6+ Kg7 81.Qc7+ Kf6 82.Kf2
= (0.13) Depth: 17 00:00:06 6441kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Kf2 Bh1 75.Ke2 Be4 76.Kf1 Bf3 77.Ke1 Be4 78.Ke2 Kg7 79.Kd2 Kf7 80.Qc5 Bf3 81.Qd6
= (0.13) Depth: 18 00:00:11 12322kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kh2 Be4 76.Qd6+ Kf7 77.Kg3 Bh1 78.Qd7+ Kf6 79.Kf2 Be4 80.Qd6+ Kf5 81.Kg3 Bh1 82.Kf2
= (0.16) Depth: 19 00:00:17 20154kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Be4 76.Ke2 Bg2 77.Qd6+ Kf5 78.Ke1 Be4 79.Kf2 Bh1 80.Kg3 Be4 81.Qd7+ Kf6 82.Kf2 Bh1
= (0.09) Depth: 20 00:00:32 39631kN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke2 Bg2 77.Qd6+ Kf7 78.Kd3 Bf1+ 79.Kd2 Bg2 80.Kd1 Be4 81.Ke1 Bf3 82.Qd7+ Kf6
= (0.09) Depth: 21 00:01:24 104mN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke1 Bf3 77.Qd6+ Kf7 78.Kf2 Bh1 79.Ke2 Be4 80.Kf1 Bf3 81.Ke1 Bg2 82.Kd2 Be4
= (0.09) Depth: 22 00:02:14 173mN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke1 Bf3 77.Kd2 Bg2 78.Kd1 Bf3+ 79.Ke1 Be4 80.Qd6+ Kf7 81.Kf1 Bf3 82.Qd7+ Kf6
= (0.11) Depth: 23 00:04:03 312mN
67.Kg3 Be4 68.Qd6 Kf7 69.Kh2 Bf3 70.Kg1 Kg7 71.Kf2 Bh1 72.Kf1 Bf3 73.Kg1 Kf7 74.Qd7+ Kf6 75.Kf2 Bh1 76.Ke1 Bf3 77.Kd2 Bg2 78.Kd1 Be4 79.Qd6+ Kf7 80.Ke2 Kg7 81.Qd7+ Kf6 82.Kd1 Bg2
= (0.11) Depth: 24 00:07:14 567mN
(, 09.09.2007)
This is the only engine I know of so far that evaluates the position as equal, though Aristarch 4.50 gives +0.50, which is "close".
![[hu]](/mwf/v12/flags/hu.png "Hungary")
Ok, I have to admit that Erdo played this game quite well. My 17. .. Na5 was far too ambitious.
Re. the endgame - it's possible that some sort of Monte Carlo approach would work on such positions. However, setting everything up, figuring out when to invoke it, etc, is a nice medium-sized AI project. Maybe it could be a Ph.D. thesis - and maybe the result of the work would be that "approach X" doesn't work.
I bet Ktulu 'gets' it by valuing the queen lower or the advanced pawns higher.
Vas
Re. the endgame - it's possible that some sort of Monte Carlo approach would work on such positions. However, setting everything up, figuring out when to invoke it, etc, is a nice medium-sized AI project. Maybe it could be a Ph.D. thesis - and maybe the result of the work would be that "approach X" doesn't work.
I bet Ktulu 'gets' it by valuing the queen lower or the advanced pawns higher.
Vas
![[it]](/mwf/v12/flags/it.png "Italy")
An adapted Gibbs sampler?
Pardon my ignorance - is this supposed to be a Redskins joke? :)
Vas
Vas
No, it's simply a complex way ( :) ) to generate instances from a multivariate distribution
Actually, the Redskins do seem to be exhibiting "Gibbs Phenomenon" which is characterized by under-damped oscillation after being subjected to a forcing function (in this case, probably a good kick in the ass :-)).
Alan
Alan
Hi Vas,
Not just Erdo. More details of the Zorro Z team are here http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=238 but the openings are his!
Best Wishes,
Harvey
Not just Erdo. More details of the Zorro Z team are here http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=238 but the openings are his!
Best Wishes,
Harvey
Wow, a fishing consortium is doing extremely well in the freestyle! Congrats Erdo and Harvey!
Alan
Alan
Hi friend,
I would like to put to your attention one game of mine, in which I have lost for listening to Rybka.
To the 31° movement, I had thought about eating the pawn adversary a:b6. But Rybka suggested me to push 31. a6. I have listened to Rybka but the pawn "b" it will determine my defeat (it is united to the chain of black pawns, while my pawn is isolated).
In fact time 5 or 6 movements, and the assessment of Rybka will pass in adverse.
If I played listening to my thought, I entered a ending draw, all to be played.
Hourly I ask to you: do you think that my Rybka has mistaken analysis because I have an a little powerful PC (single core) or because the engines still have some evident limits?
Tracing with a quad core, would I have gotten different results?
I would be happy if I wrote me one opinion of yours. I attach game.
Hi
I would like to put to your attention one game of mine, in which I have lost for listening to Rybka.
To the 31° movement, I had thought about eating the pawn adversary a:b6. But Rybka suggested me to push 31. a6. I have listened to Rybka but the pawn "b" it will determine my defeat (it is united to the chain of black pawns, while my pawn is isolated).
In fact time 5 or 6 movements, and the assessment of Rybka will pass in adverse.
If I played listening to my thought, I entered a ending draw, all to be played.
Hourly I ask to you: do you think that my Rybka has mistaken analysis because I have an a little powerful PC (single core) or because the engines still have some evident limits?
Tracing with a quad core, would I have gotten different results?
I would be happy if I wrote me one opinion of yours. I attach game.
Hi
Attachment: game.pgn (4k)
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