![[at]](/mwf/v12/flags/at.png "Austria")
Here we go, the four game tie-break between Rybka and Deep Shredder at the Livingston Chess 960 Computer World Championship in Mainz has just begun. Shredder openened with 1.c4 and Rybka started with the cute move 1...O-O.
Good luck today, Vas (and Rybka) ;)
Good luck today, Vas (and Rybka) ;)
Wow, Rybka is slaughtering this poor Shredder.
Game 1 finished.
Deep Shredder - Rybka ... 0-1
Game 1 finished.
Deep Shredder - Rybka ... 0-1
Game 2 just finished.
Rybka - Deep Shredder ... 1-0
Shredder really went out of his way to pick a fight in this game. He (or she?) declined several possibilities for a draw by repetition around move 40 and kept pushing - until Rybka pushed back.
Rybka - Deep Shredder ... 1-0
Shredder really went out of his way to pick a fight in this game. He (or she?) declined several possibilities for a draw by repetition around move 40 and kept pushing - until Rybka pushed back.
Game 3 started.
Rybka only needs one draw out of two games to become the new Chess 960 Computer World Champion.
Game 3 finished.
Shredder - Rybka ... 1/2-1/2
Rybka only needs one draw out of two games to become the new Chess 960 Computer World Champion.
Game 3 finished.
Shredder - Rybka ... 1/2-1/2
![[il]](/mwf/v12/flags/il.png "Israel")
Hiarcs(the ccrl leader) was not invited to this tournament so I cannot consider this tournamebt as world championship.
Rybka can be at most the champion of the invitation tournament.
Uri
Rybka can be at most the champion of the invitation tournament.
Uri
Well, at least the organizer of this event disagrees and calls it proudly the
3. Livingston Chess960 Computer World Championship
But I see your point. :)
3. Livingston Chess960 Computer World Championship
But I see your point. :)
In that case we can all organise our own tournament and call it a World Championship. I think I will play 2 tomorrow ;-) - these kind of, invitational, events just bring Computer Chess into disrepute IMHO! A World Championship should be open to all.
Should Rybka have been invited to the ultimate challenge - yes. Can this 960 event be called a real world championship - no
Congratulations to Vas & Rybka on winning this event :)
Should Rybka have been invited to the ultimate challenge - yes. Can this 960 event be called a real world championship - no
Congratulations to Vas & Rybka on winning this event :)
OK, I see your point, too. At least it is fun to watch.
Game 3 ended as a draw and congratulation for the rybka team for winning the invetational tournamnent.
Uri
Uri
![[no]](/mwf/v12/flags/no.png "Norway")
By your logic, no event can truely be called a world championship, as NO event really is open to everybody. Just because one strong participant is missing doesn't mean you can't call it a championship. The legitimate reason not to call someting a championship event is if it isn't recognised as a championship event by a governing body. But that has nothing to do with who participates.
Ole M.
Ole M.
Most other world championships are open for others to qualify for or enter directly. This one had 1 engine in the top 5 at FRC invited. I am currently holding a world championship on the playchess server in the final Zap is playing Hiarcs.
The definition i used is the one given by the sponsors, Livingston, when I asked them if they were aware of how the event was being organised.
They said, "A World Championship should be open to all so that the best may win."
I also think that if Hiarcs had been 1 of the 4 invited engines that it still is not a World Championship.
Anyway - regardless of that Congratulations again to Rybka on a fine tournament win!
Harvey
The definition i used is the one given by the sponsors, Livingston, when I asked them if they were aware of how the event was being organised.
They said, "A World Championship should be open to all so that the best may win."
I also think that if Hiarcs had been 1 of the 4 invited engines that it still is not a World Championship.
Anyway - regardless of that Congratulations again to Rybka on a fine tournament win!
Harvey
![[us]](/mwf/v12/flags/us.png "United States")
Actually, how about the Rybka and Hiarcs teams getting together to play a sort of "unified championship"? This would be exciting in my opinion, though it would probably have to be relatively informal--but I don't see any problem with the Rybka and Hiarcs teams relaying the moves over some sort of server in something like a 12-game Fischer-Random championship.
We could call it the Ultimate Challenge! Now where have we heard that name before???
This is a difficult subject. Who is the "governing body" for chess engine world championships?
I think if an event is called world championship, then all (or almost all) relevant engines should be competing. This event clearly was not a world championship in that sense. There were only four contestants. Among others, the CCRL rating list leader - Hiarcs - was missing, so were many other top FRC engines.
Had Shredder won this event though, Chessbase would surely have celebrated this "World Championship Title" on their homepage.
I think if an event is called world championship, then all (or almost all) relevant engines should be competing. This event clearly was not a world championship in that sense. There were only four contestants. Among others, the CCRL rating list leader - Hiarcs - was missing, so were many other top FRC engines.
Had Shredder won this event though, Chessbase would surely have celebrated this "World Championship Title" on their homepage.
Chessbase has written stories each of the past two years on the computer part of the Fischer-Random tournament...let's see if they hold to it this year...
There is a governing body for everything concerning Chess...FIDE. So ultimately FIDE should be the governing body. I am of course aware of the fact that FIDE really does close to nothing concerning engine-chess. And of course only 4 participants is far to few to really have a legitimate claim on calling the tournament even an unofficial championship. My point was simply to point the finger at Mr. Williamsons argument as he, in my view, places far too much emphasis on the fact that Hiarcs didn't participate. And that alone is not a valid enough reason NOT to call the tournament a world championship.
If you read what I said I stated that even if Hiarcs was there I do not think it is a valid world championship. No event with 4 invited engines should be called a world championship even if they are the top 4 on the rating list. Unless it is widely accepted with plenty of notice that the top 4 on rating list x will be invited.
I said in my previous reply:
I also think that if Hiarcs had been 1 of the 4 invited engines that it still is not a World Championship.
So I do not know why you say i place to much emphasis on the fact that Hiarcs does not play? It is not that long ago that this forum was up in arms that Rybka was not invited to the ultimate challenge and Vas issued his $100,000 challenge which I supported.
I said in my previous reply:
I also think that if Hiarcs had been 1 of the 4 invited engines that it still is not a World Championship.
So I do not know why you say i place to much emphasis on the fact that Hiarcs does not play? It is not that long ago that this forum was up in arms that Rybka was not invited to the ultimate challenge and Vas issued his $100,000 challenge which I supported.
Inviting the top N engines from the ratings list to compete in a "World Championship" event seems like a pretty reasonable approach to me. This would have been problematic for Mainz because they wanted to have Rybka there, with good justification. On the other hand, not inviting the top engine on the FRC ratings list and calling it a "World Championship" seems downright silly. The obvious solution would have been to have a larger field. Its not clear to me why they didn't take this approach. Does anyone have any additional insight?
Regards,
Alan
Regards,
Alan
Hi Alan,
I agree with what you say. It is totally legitimate to hold a championship as you describe as long as it is widely known what the rules will be. Also if an engine, in this case Rybka, is dominating all other ratings lists but has not yet played FRC of course it should be allowed to enter.
I have had a lot of private contact with the sponsors and organisers and also the ICGA. I am not going to publish it here. After last years event which both Hiarcs and Rybka could not attend for various reasons it was announced that this year it would be a tournament with = hardware for all. Mark and I liked this idea and did a lot of preparation work. I even booked a week off work based in this - so I have now spent a wasted week at home.
So when a couple of months ago it was stated that it was now an invitational event we were understandably annoyed! The organiser told me the sponsors don't want Hiarcs. I emailed the sponsors who totally contradicted this statement.
But I state again that no tournament with 4 random invited engines can be a WCCC. Even if the random 4 include Hiarcs, Rybka and Shredder.
Best Wishes,
Harvey
I agree with what you say. It is totally legitimate to hold a championship as you describe as long as it is widely known what the rules will be. Also if an engine, in this case Rybka, is dominating all other ratings lists but has not yet played FRC of course it should be allowed to enter.
I have had a lot of private contact with the sponsors and organisers and also the ICGA. I am not going to publish it here. After last years event which both Hiarcs and Rybka could not attend for various reasons it was announced that this year it would be a tournament with = hardware for all. Mark and I liked this idea and did a lot of preparation work. I even booked a week off work based in this - so I have now spent a wasted week at home.
So when a couple of months ago it was stated that it was now an invitational event we were understandably annoyed! The organiser told me the sponsors don't want Hiarcs. I emailed the sponsors who totally contradicted this statement.
But I state again that no tournament with 4 random invited engines can be a WCCC. Even if the random 4 include Hiarcs, Rybka and Shredder.
Best Wishes,
Harvey
Thanks Harvey. Sounds like the organizer is not a fan of Hiarcs and allowed this to compromise the event. Unfortunately, these kind of things happen way to often in chess events and I think this has a lot to do with chess not being nearly as successful as it should be based on the number of players around the world.
Regards,
Alan
Regards,
Alan
It seems they decided not to play game 4 and agreed on a draw right away. Final score Rybka - Shredder ... 3-1
Congratulations to Vas and the Rybka team.
Congratulations to Vas and the Rybka team.
![[kw]](/mwf/v12/flags/kw.png "Kuwait")
Hehe ... yes ... I had to do a double take on that one. It almost seemed like Rybka declined to move and did a null move thingy. It will take some getting used to this type of chess. But that has to be the first time I have ever seen a castle on move 1.
![[za]](/mwf/v12/flags/za.png "South Africa")
I saw that, I wonder how long it will take me to understand the rules of this kind of chess. If possible, someone who have the rules, please post them. Hey, but castling in the 1st move was cute, hehehehe! I was just telling a friend of mine about that move of castling in the 1st move.
![[ee]](/mwf/v12/flags/ee.png "Estonia")
Thank you Linus, thank Svilponis
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