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Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / My first win vs the "Highe" !
- - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-04 12:27
Last night I had another game with Highendman, and finally came my first win. Here is the game:

[Event "Partita amichevole, 60m + 0s"]
[Site "Gioco con programmi"]
[Date "2009.08.03"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Highendman"]
[Black "Auryn"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B90"]
[WhiteElo "2562"]
[BlackElo "1843"]
[PlyCount "164"]
[EventDate "2009.08.03"]
[TimeControl "3600"]

1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} c5 {[%emt 0:00:16]} 2. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:11]} d6 {
[%emt 0:00:28]} 3. d4 {[%emt 0:00:07]} cxd4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 4. Nxd4 {
[%emt 0:00:04]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 5. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} a6 {[%emt 0:00:01]
} 6. f3 {[%emt 0:00:01]} e6 {[%emt 0:00:24]} 7. Be3 {[%emt 0:00:18]} b5 {
[%emt 0:00:05]} 8. a3 {[%emt 0:01:11]} Bb7 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 9. h4 {
[%emt 0:00:26]} Be7 {[%emt 0:00:11]} 10. g4 {[%emt 0:00:25]} Nfd7 {
[%emt 0:00:06]} 11. g5 {[%emt 0:01:37]} Nb6 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 12. Qd2 {
[%emt 0:06:07]} N8d7 {[%emt 0:00:54]} 13. O-O-O {[%emt 0:00:14]} Rc8 {
[%emt 0:00:23]} 14. h5 {[%emt 0:03:52]} Ne5 {[%emt 0:00:47]} 15. f4 {
[%emt 0:03:02]} Nec4 {[%emt 0:00:25]} 16. Qe1 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Qc7 {
[%emt 0:00:06]} 17. Bxc4 {[%emt 0:00:37]} Nxc4 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 18. Rd3 {
[%emt 0:01:27]} h6 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 19. g6 {[%emt 0:01:18]} Bf6 {[%emt 0:00:05]
} 20. Kb1 {[%emt 0:00:06]} O-O {[%emt 0:05:39]} 21. Rg1 {[%emt 0:01:17]} Nxb2 {
[%emt 0:00:11]} 22. Kxb2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} Bxe4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 23. Qe2 {
[%emt 0:00:49]} Bf5 {[%emt 0:00:45]} 24. Qd2 {[%emt 0:01:27]} Bxd3 {
[%emt 0:08:29]} 25. Qxd3 {[%emt 0:00:04]} d5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 26. Nce2 {
[%emt 0:00:05]} Qd7 {[%emt 0:05:26]} 27. Bd2 {[%emt 0:05:24]} Rc4 {
[%emt 0:01:59]} 28. Bb4 {[%emt 0:00:07]} Ra8 {[%emt 0:04:38]} 29. gxf7+ {
[%emt 0:00:08]} Qxf7 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 30. Rg6 {[%emt 0:00:07]} a5 {
[%emt 0:08:41]} 31. Bd6 {[%emt 0:01:07]} Rac8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 32. Be5 {
[%emt 0:01:26]} Bxe5 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 33. fxe5 {[%emt 0:00:07]} b4 {
[%emt 0:00:30]} 34. a4 {[%emt 0:01:36]} Kh8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 35. Rg2 {
[%emt 0:00:52]} R8c7 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 36. Qg3 {[%emt 0:02:40]} Qe8 {
[%emt 0:02:12]} 37. Kb1 {[%emt 0:00:15]} Qxa4 {[%emt 0:03:43]} 38. Rf2 {
[%emt 0:00:07]} Qe8 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 39. Nb5 {[%emt 0:00:14]} Rxc2 {
[%emt 0:00:09]} 40. Nxc7 {[%emt 0:00:06]} Rxc7 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 41. Qg6 {
[%emt 0:04:18]} Qc8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 42. Rf1 {[%emt 0:00:06]} a4 {
[%emt 0:00:06]} 43. Nd4 {[%emt 0:00:25]} Re7 {[%emt 0:01:16]} 44. Rc1 {
[%emt 0:00:14]} Qa6 {[%emt 0:01:06]} 45. Ka2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} a3 {
[%emt 0:00:02]} 46. Qb1 {[%emt 0:00:42]} Qb7 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 47. Qc2 {
[%emt 0:00:04]} Re8 {[%emt 0:01:04]} 48. Qc7 {[%emt 0:03:46]} b3+ {
[%emt 0:00:19]} 49. Nxb3 {[%emt 0:00:25]} Qb5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 50. Qc2 {
[%emt 0:00:32]} Qb4 {[%emt 0:00:15]} 51. Qd3 {[%emt 0:00:22]} Qf4 {
[%emt 0:00:05]} 52. Qe2 {[%emt 0:00:37]} Rb8 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 53. Rc3 {
[%emt 0:00:37]} Kg8 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 54. Kxa3 {[%emt 0:00:42]} Qb4+ {
[%emt 0:00:08]} 55. Kb2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} Qd4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 56. Kc2 {
[%emt 0:01:11]} Qa4 {Highendman offers a draw [%emt 0:00:08]} 57. Qe3 {
[%emt 0:01:55]} Qa2+ {[%emt 0:00:16]} 58. Kc1 {[%emt 0:00:01]} Rf8 {
[%emt 0:00:17]} 59. Rc2 {[%emt 0:00:01]} Qa4 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 60. Kd1 {
[%emt 0:00:01]} Qg4+ {[%emt 0:00:20]} 61. Kc1 {[%emt 0:00:09]} Qxh5 {
[%emt 0:00:02]} 62. Kb2 {[%emt 0:00:06]} Rb8 {[%emt 0:00:07]} 63. Qg3 {
[%emt 0:00:23]} Qf5 {[%emt 0:00:09]} 64. Rc7 {[%emt 0:00:12]} Qf8 {
[%emt 0:00:31]} 65. Qc3 {[%emt 0:00:17]} h5 {[%emt 0:00:10]} 66. Qc6 {
[%emt 0:00:11]} Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 67. Qc2+ {[%emt 0:00:08]} Kh8 {
[%emt 0:00:00]} 68. Qc6 {[%emt 0:00:14]} Qf2+ {[%emt 0:00:13]} 69. Qc2 {
[%emt 0:00:06]} Qd4+ {[%emt 0:00:01]} 70. Qc3 {[%emt 0:00:07]} Qg4 {
[%emt 0:00:03]} 71. Qe3 {[%emt 0:00:29]} h4 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 72. Rc1 {
[%emt 0:00:05]} Rb4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 73. Rg1 {[%emt 0:00:06]} Qh5 {
[%emt 0:00:15]} 74. Ka3 {[%emt 0:00:21]} Re4 {[%emt 0:00:24]} 75. Qc3 {
[%emt 0:00:30]} Qxe5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 76. Qxe5 {[%emt 0:00:29]} Rxe5 {
[%emt 0:00:00]} 77. Kb4 {[%emt 0:00:08]} Rh5 {[%emt 0:00:23]} 78. Nc5 {
[%emt 0:00:05]} Rh6 {' [%emt 0:00:43]} 79. Re1 {[%emt 0:00:01]} h3 {
[%emt 0:00:09]} 80. Nxe6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} Kh7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 81. Nc5 {
[%emt 0:00:02]} h2 {[%emt 0:00:12]} 82. Rh1 {[%emt 0:00:06]} g5 {
Highendman resigns  (Lag: Av=0.26s, max=1.3s) [%emt 0:00:01]} 0-1

I went close to win a couple of times in the other games I played vs him, but in all those games I had White. As Black instead... every  time it has been a real pain, as his strategy (except in this game) worked greatly: get me out of book as soon as possible with a new move, and once I was out of book, I hadn't big chances against his powerful computers, (combined with his amazing analysis skill of course) with only my Quad 6600 overclocked at 3 ghz which even has a very annoying lag when using all 4 cores, so when I do quick analysis or the time on clock gets low I have to switch to three processors, like I did in this game.
In this game, to my surprise, I found myself in a playable middlegame position, where I even had a little advantage, but even this time, my position was getting little by little worse and worse at every move! I tried to find a way to win in middlegame, but he defended greatly, until the score on my rybka dropped to 0.00. So I typed in the kib-window that I was happy with a draw, and I would have repeated the moves, but as always, he refused the repetition and tried to find a way to win anyway :-)
This time though, he took a little too long in his analysis, and at move 56, when he offered me a draw, he had only a few minutes left, and as the time control was 60 minutes with no increment, this time it was me who decided to continue, taking advantage of his little time left on the clock, and even if the position looked drawish, I found a way to overcome his knight with my pawns, and I won the endgame. Of course he could have probably defended if he had had more time on the clock, but games with no time increment are that way, in those you also have to be skilled to correctly dose your time carefully throughout the game. He told me after the game that he was surprised that I hadn't accepted a draw in what he considered a draw position. I told him that I was surprised too that he thought I would have accepted it in those circumstances, in fact I would have continued even if the position looked more drawish than that, as for me the clock is a major part of the game. if you thought too long, or are too slow and lose on time, your fault! A good centaur must also be skilled to manage his time on the clock carefully throughout the game. I also explained him not to expect to be "graced" by others in an important game if he gets so low on the clock... many sure would be "gentlemans", but many others will play on to win on time, like I would too for sure.
Ok, now he will go on holidays, I want to thank him, the "Highe" :-) for his availability to play these friendly games with me. As he said, it's so hard to find an opponent ... and even harder is to find a strong one! See you again in September.

Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2009-08-04 12:47

> with only my Quad 6600 overclocked at 3 ghz which even has a very annoying lag when using all 4 cores, so when I do quick analysis or the time on clock gets low I have to switch to three processors

Try to find one Rybka proc which is set with Normal priority (other 3 are Below Normal), and change it to Below Normal, too. This worked for me, lag is almost completely reduced.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-08-04 12:54
+1, though I only have a dual-core. This is with affinities (the Aquarium beta sets them automatically).
Parent - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2009-08-04 15:26
I wish future Fritz GUI reincarnations solve this.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-05 05:12

>> which even has a very annoying lag when using all 4 cores,

> Try to find one Rybka proc which is set with Normal priority (other 3 are Below Normal), and change it to Below Normal, too.

What's this "lag" you're talking about? Sounds like something critical I've been missing.
Parent - - By Dragon Mist (****) [hr] Date 2009-08-05 06:42
I believe Eros is experiencing what quite a few of us are; namely, under Fritz GUI, Rybka 3 running on all x (in my case x=4) cores, win XP Pro 64-bit, causes the PC to become very unresponsive; opening Win Explorer, etc., everything takes 10-30 seconds to materialize. I tried under Arena, the problem wasn't there. Everyone else that reported the same were using Fritz GUI.
I tortured the forum early this year in search for solution, but found it later myself by changing the single Normal Rybka process to Below Normal (when started, R3 will have 4 processes, 1 Normal and 3 Below Normal priority). Having all 4 on Below Normal solved the problem. The trade-off is that if you run anything else that is proc consuming while running 4 core Rybka, kN/s will drop significantly.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-08-05 07:25

> Arena, the problem wasn't there.

I haven't run into this in Aquarium either.
Parent - - By Highendman (****) Date 2009-08-04 13:03
Yes, it was a good lesson for me, and a good game by Eros.
I didn't play the opening well, and had to defend most of the game. I found some winning ideas for Eros, but he played different moves.
Then I equalized and even had a small plus, but not enough to win despite looking hard and far.

As the position was dead draw, and I only had 5 minutes left vs. 7 minutes for Eros, I offered draw realizing neither of us can make progress.
To my great surprise Eros declined - I took another minute or so to understand he wasn't joking and really wanted to win on time :)
At that time I had like 2 minutes left and had to stop playing with the engine as it was running on one machine and playchess on another.
And obviously as soon as I started playing myself solo I blundered and resigned with 30 seconds left.

I'm actually thankful to Eros for the lesson. In previous games against him and others I always told them when they were short on time that they don't need to worry and I'm not going to win on time if the position is drawn - didn't see much fun in that. But Eros' lesson to me was that not everyone play like I do - and I guess he REALLY wanted my scalp lol.

So congrats to Eros for the game, victory and lesson! I now owe him one hehe.
I had to lose eventually, and I'm happy to have lost in a way that allowed me to learn some more :)
Parent - - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2009-08-04 13:15
It really stings to lose to Eros!  He's a butcher; he kills without remorse, even takes delight in it.  What's more he doesn't play gentleman's rules, reasoning that this isn't a gentleman's environment!  No quarter expected, no quarter given!

Remember the scene in "The Godfather" when Don Corleone visits his old home town and gets revenge on the very old man who killed his father?  That scene is Eros.
Parent - - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-04 13:22
Yes Cato ! Chess is war to my eyes, my opponent, even if a friend, becomes an enemy to be murdered, on the chessboard. No Mercy! And yes, I enjoy the slaughter! (EMO_Kill)
So I will always use every weapon in my arsenal to kill the enemy... and this was only a friendly game! ;-)

P.S. thanks Dragon Mist for the suggestion, I will try it

Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2009-08-04 13:30
I appreciate your honesty!  Let all who tangle with this man be foreewarned!  What a guy.  Here's the lesson: you have to treat him the same way.  The slightest advantage of any kind must be pressed all the way without hesitation.  This is a blood sport.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2009-08-04 13:21 Edited 2009-08-04 13:46
A point which Eros brought up: do not--ever--let him play 25 moves out of book.  That is a sure way to wind up in time trouble.  Unless you have a monster book you have to avoid the Sicilian with him and if you are smart you'll play a novelty early on.
Parent - By Nelson Hernandez (Gold) [us] Date 2009-08-04 13:43

> I had to lose eventually, and I'm happy to have lost in a way that allowed me to learn some more

No, no, no.  You must never be happy to lose and you must never rationalize it.  This is a polite English attitude and it doesn't belong here.  In competition you must have the implacable and remorseless attitude of a Sicilian mafioso or a Russian gangster.  Eros achieved something far greater than a win here: he proved he could beat you, even if only on time.  From a psychological warfare perspective this was much more than just a friendly game; it was a critical breakthrough that he hopes will plant seeds of doubt in your mind and I am sure he hopes to leverage this in the desperate contests to come. 
Parent - By Vasik Rajlich (Silver) [pl] Date 2009-08-05 05:46
One small tip: you should always either run Rybka in centaur mode (in the Playchess sense) in your playchess client, or auto-kibitz the game from another account. This will save you needed seconds in these kinds of scrambling situations, and it will also sometimes find something interesting.

Parent - - By TGO (**) [si] Date 2009-08-04 14:02
I just have to ask...doesn't this feel a bit like when father wins againts rybka on time?
Parent - - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-04 14:15
For sure he enjoys winning that way. But in his case it's a little different, as it's the only chance he has to win vs rybka. He also uses a weapon, which may not seem a "gentleman" one. The time weapon. Rybka and other engines have that weak point? Hit on it! They don't understand closed positions? Hit on that too! Highe is a gentleman? Hit on that as well ! ;-)
Parent - - By yanquis1972 (****) [us] Date 2009-08-05 01:02
sure, but i for one like highendman's ethics better, purely from an aesthetic standpoint, & i hope this game won't change that.

it's certainly not much fun watching a couple clocks tick down, & i don't much see the fun or point in winning on time in a long TC game either, but to each his own in that regard. 

edit - that said i didnt see the TC for this game; at 60/0, obv the clock is a big factor. imo anything over 15 minutes should have good-sized increments.
Parent - - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-05 01:49
Everyone prefers things to go the standard way, acting "gently" is always better seen than acting "tricky"
In this case, Highendman is seen as the "good boy", and me as the "bad boy".
Furthermore, my tendency to go to the extremes made me look even worse ; it's a way I am, I like to go to the extremes in everything, with no brakes, I like to see the reaction of people that way, and that only brings me troubles, accuses, usually, that's normal. But that's a thing I like and look for! Making myself appear fakely and see what people say about me in that disguise.
In reality I know I didn't act nice playing on time, but the way I talked, I made people believe I really am a bloody "butcher", while in reality I consider myself quite the opposite, I am very fair in everything, and I am quite friendly. Making me appear the opposite way is some kind of provocations which is within me, it's my "style".
I had many discussions in the past with players firmly believing that playing on time is bad, (in reality I really think that playing on time should be allowed even in drawish positions, drawish I said, not draw positions. The position with highe was only drawish, but with a mistake, as he did, he could have lost, it was not an opposite bishop clear draw endgame) accusing me of being a cheater after winning that way, even in blitz games! So, I exaggerated things a little, yes, looking straight for someone accusing me again. I am surprised no one called me a sort of cheater yet here ;-) I had no fun in winning that way, that would be stupid, I consider that game as a draw, I know well my win that way was undeserved, and I admit that "the highe" is stronger than me, at least with his hardware advantage, and probably he would be stronger also if we played a match with equal hardware.

Parent - - By Watchman (***) Date 2009-08-05 02:03 Edited 2009-08-05 02:05
To: il mio amico del cuore Eros,

I think you're one great fighter* btw :-O

Edit: how to remove that asterix btw?
Parent - - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-05 02:06
Parent - - By Sebastian Boehme (**) [de] Date 2009-08-05 02:09
Hi Eros,

how are you? :-O
Parent - - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-05 02:10
so Sebi!
Shouldn't you have played the Highe today btw ? :-O
Parent - - By Sebastian Boehme (**) [de] Date 2009-08-05 02:12
Yes actually we agreed for the time 4 pm,

but maybe he had another important appointment, which of course is of priority in that case.

Parent - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-05 02:13
imagine he thought you were too weak for him, just imagine :-OoO
Parent - - By Ozymandias (****) [es] Date 2009-08-05 07:46
At least, going for the clock on a draw position is forbidden (by the FIDE, that is)
That also holds true for drawish positions where you aren't making any "progress" (aside from the clock) ;-)
Parent - - By Auryn (***) [it] Date 2009-08-05 08:54
That also holds true for drawish positions where you aren't making any "progress"

----> that's true in longer time controls than blitz, at least it was when some years ago I played a human blitz "marathon" (like 2 days non-stop playing 5 mins blitz games, at the end I had allucinations :-O) and one opponent, I don't remember the type of the position, but was like a blocked pawn position, with no progress possible by any side. I was lower on the clock, and when I tried to "beg for a draw" my opponent coldly told me like: I am sorry, you are lower than me on time, I will continue until your flag falls down. All I had to do was move my king as fast as I could, counting at loud voice the moves (one, two, three etc) hoping to reach the fifty number, but I didn't make it... I had to accept the loss. So, if someone is telling me I am a cheater when I win the same way, that thing I don't accept!
Parent - By Ozymandias (****) [es] Date 2009-08-05 13:18
Blitz it's a completely different beast, with very curious rules as:

"An illegal move is completed once the opponent’s clock has been started. The opponent is entitled to claim a win before he has made his own move. However, if the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves, then the claimant is entitled to claim a draw before he has made his own move. Once the opponent has made his own move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless mutually agreed without intervention of an arbiter."

The rule I was talking about in the previous message only refers to rapidplay, where:

A ‘Rapidplay’ game is one where either all the moves must be made in a fixed time of at least 15 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted + 60 times any increment is at least 15 minutes, but less than 60 minutes for each player.

Last year's Infinity Christmas tournament was rapidplay, btw, I wonder how many wins that should have been drawn were accepted because the losers didn't know about  this one ;-)
Parent - By keoki010 (Silver) [us] Date 2009-08-05 14:33
There is a reason for the clock.  Eros knows the reason, Highend just learned it! Eros is no cheat!
Up Topic Rybka Support & Discussion / Rybka Discussion / My first win vs the "Highe" !

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