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Up Topic Forum Assistance & Feedback / Questions or Suggestions Related to the Forum / Forum software updated to version 2.19
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- - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-09 23:00
The forum software has been updated to version 2.19.

Note that due to changes in this version some of the older styles had to be removed. If you used one of the incompatible styles you will now see the default forum style. Two new, very simple, styles were added.

Added: Attachment captions. Also shown in attachment list and on image pages
Added: Separate user profile page.
Added: Multipurpose user profile field with markup.
Added: Separate option for max. posts on forum overview page.
Added: Hints for board subscriptions and user ignoring.
Added: Topic-level reply button.
Added: HTML5 video element plugin example.

Changed: A few forum help text updates.
Changed: Don't auto-tag URL after ] to allow plugin to use URL.
Changed: Use CSS sprites instead of many small icons.
Changed: Show hints, errors and exec messages in similar boxes.
Changed: Replaced selection captcha with question/answer.
Changed: Various small OpenPGP improvements.
Changed: Misc. small changes.

Fixed: Emphasize new edit time even if post is new.
Fixed: User ignoring explanation text wasn't shown.
Fixed: Decode UTF-8 from GnuPG.
Fixed: Thumbnail filenames could collide.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-09 23:04

> Added: Attachment captions.


Can be used for important image notes, xkcd bonus jokes etc.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-09 23:06

> Added: Topic-level reply button.


The main reason why this feature was added is actually all the chess games being played here on the forum :smile: The other reason is to make it easier to post replies that apply to a topic as a whole, but are not answers to specific posts (in general, if a post needs quoting to be understood, it should be posted as a reply to the quoted post).

I see this as an experimental feature. If it helps improve the structure of topics (which I believe it will, if used correctly) then it will become a permanent feature. It's also possible to abuse it, making it hard to follow the discussion and understand who is answering whom.

Posting moves in forum chess games

Many chess games are played here on the forum between teams or individual users. The games that Rybka plays in important events are also relayed, often several moves at a time. Usually, some discussion takes place in response to each move. Users who are following the game give their opinion about the position, ask questions, discuss alternatives etc.

If you look at an annotated game in a book or a magazine it has a hierarchical structure, which often looks something like this:

1. e4
  [A last minute decision]
1...c5
  [1...e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is the Ruy Lopez]
  [2...Nf6 is Petrov's defense]
2.d4
  [Going for the Smith-Morra]
2...cxd4 3.c3 dxc3
etc.

Here we have the mainline at the top level, then variations at lowers levels (slightly indented), verbal commentary etc. You can also see this game structure when a game is being broadcast on a server or the web (e.g. the ChessOK broadcasts with Rybka analysis). Of course you always find the latest mainline move at the end of the notation.

This familiar structure can also be achieved in forum games by always posting the actual moves in the game as a reply to the first post in the topic. Previously, this required several steps in topics that had too many posts to fit on one page. Since this structure has some advantages for readers and solves certain problems that players have complained about, the new forum version adds a topic-level reply button, which allows you to achieve this structure with the click of a button.



The new "Reply" button can be found at the top and bottom of each topic page (highlighted in the image). When you click the button, the usual post reply page is displayed, except that the "In Response to" part is omitted.

The following reminder is also displayed on the post reply page:

"This board is threaded (i.e. has a tree structure). Please use the Reply button of the specific post you are referring to, not just any random button. If you want to reply to the topic in general, use the topic-level Reply button near the top and bottom of the page."
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-09 23:44 Edited 2009-07-10 02:12

> The following reminder is also displayed on the post reply page:
>
> "This board is threaded (i.e. has a tree structure). Please use the Reply button of the specific post you are referring to, not just any random button. If you want to reply to the topic in general, use the topic-level Reply button near the top and bottom of the page."


Is there any way to turn it off? It may be helpful for users that aren't aware of this, but it's a bit annoying when I know what I'm doing.

Edit test.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-09 23:55
+1

Plus the 'Report is not reply' thing.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-10 00:04
It was put there for a good reason and since then we have had much fewer reports that were supposed to be replies.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-10 07:33 Edited 2009-07-10 07:41
Yes, but some of us can tell it from the Reply page by how it's completely different! The text box is far too small, there are no style buttons, you can't preview, the Post button is called Report, report_add.png is not the same as post_add.png (but it'd help if it were a different colour or something).
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-10 09:36

> Yes, but some of us can tell it from the Reply page by how it's completely different!


If you were the average user it would never have appeared. I will consider this for 2.19+ :smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-10 09:56
Hey, what about making these king of messages:



Appear like this:



Or even:



?

I don't know, I remember these messages we're fine as they were, while now they feel invasive by comparison, just saying.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-10 09:58
Testing.

Yes, definitely.
Parent - - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2009-07-10 12:24
I hate some of the changes that have been made.  First off, it would be nice to have the old "check" when you have read all new posts in a subforum.  Second, we really need the old "checks" on the individual messages because now there is no differentiation between new posts that have already been read in a forum session and those that have just been added after logging into the forum.  I predict an increase by a factor of many in the number of new messages that people miss.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-10 12:28
There has been absolutely no change in that area since some ancient version. Hit refresh a couple of times.
Parent - By turbojuice1122 (Gold) [us] Date 2009-07-10 14:40
That's strange--it works now, though I hit refresh a couple of times yesterday when I saw that changes were taking place, and it didn't work.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-09 23:58

> Is there any way to turn it off?


It's been there for half an hour. Let's give it it a little more time. I'll be watching your posts and if I see that you actually understand it as well as you say, I may reconsider :smile:
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-13 21:18
It's been there nearly four days and it's still annoying.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-13 22:21
And it doesn't work, the first time people read it, and think, they may reconsider replying to a different (correct) post. But on afterwards, they don't read it because they know what it says, and reply to the wrong post anyway (i.e. Chess subforum threads.)
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-13 22:26
Of course it is the duty of the moderators to guide the common user in such matters :wink:

OK, I'll be keeping count from now on. Against: 2.
Parent - - By keoki010 (Bronze) [us] Date 2009-07-14 14:02
Make it +3.

Got a question???  Is there any way to attach a file to a pm message?  ie. like in the thread replys.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-14 17:18
No, you can't.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-08-10 17:11
Does it even work? For example, http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?pid=177682 .
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-11 18:27

> Does it even work?


No, but it's not because of the new feature, people will reply wrongly no matter what. Example:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=12103

I replied to the right message, someone#1 replied to me wrongly (by using "general reply to thread") and then someone#2 replied to me wrongly (by replying to someone#1.) I think the more complex a system is, the more possible ways of doing something wrong, and people'll do them, we wouldn't even notice the wrong doings if posts were sorted cron*Vytron is shot*
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-08-11 18:54
Perhaps the topic reply button should contain an EULA:

"By clicking 'yes, I want to reply to the topic in general, not to any particular post', I agree that the post I am about to make will, in no way, be a reply to any particular post rather than the whole post."

Add a few examples and a warning about voiding the Internet's warranty if you don't follow the directions.
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-08-11 20:35

> any particular post rather than the whole post."


The whole thread, I meant.
Parent - - By keoki010 (Bronze) [us] Date 2009-08-11 20:03
I like the way it's working now.  count me as for, that's +3
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-11 21:58
Wait, do you like the way we're shown a message that does nothing, or that doesn't do enough to justify its existence?
Parent - - By keoki010 (Bronze) [us] Date 2009-08-11 23:40
As confused as everbody else is in this forum what's a little more confusion?  No, what I meant was I like the way it indents now.  It doesn't seem to hook on to the first post in the topic. Maybe I'm wrong? :smile:
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-11 23:46
You're right, but to the post you replied, it seemed that you liked how the message "This board is threaded (i.e. has a tree structure). Please use the Reply button of the specific post you are referring to, not just any random button. If you want to reply to the topic in general, use the topic-level Reply button near the top and bottom of the page" worked, instead of how new indentation worked.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-08-11 22:10
You're for and against?
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-11 22:21

> You're for and against?


Ah, that would explain my confusion.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-16 21:53
It seems that the players don't use the new topic reply option, so it will probably be removed along with the message in the next update.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-16 22:20
It does save time when you want to reply to the thread in general and you don't need to search for the first post's reply button. I like it as a feature (instead of means of enforcing some member behavior.)

But I'll welcome the disappearance of the message :smile:
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-16 22:24

> enforcing some member behavior


Err, it was implemented to help solve/reduce problems that you and others had complained about. I guess they weren't that serious after all :smile:
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-16 22:41
I think one issue is that the new option looks identical to what people are using:



"I want to reply, what 'Reply' option should I follow? The closer one of course!"
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-08-07 07:22
How did you take that screenshot? Normal Windows screenshots don't have the mouse...
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-07 10:19
I went to Google images to search for the cursor picture, then I copy pasted it into the screenshot. Actually, my cursor didn't look like that at the time, but having a cursor in the picture was important for the argument (or so I believed.)
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-08-07 07:10

> I like it as a feature


And more now that you can actually reply to the thread with this button instead of being a quick way to reply to first post!
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-09-27 23:18
Ok, so the general reply button's problem is that people keep using it to reply wrongly to the thread, and the problem is that the context of the message they're replying to becomes lost in some unknown branch.

Since we don't want to lose this feature, my suggestion is to remove the bottom general reply to topic link, so people wanting to reply generally would use the link at the top of the page.
Parent - - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-09 23:09

> Added: Separate option for max. posts on forum overview page.


Set to 500.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-27 18:00
Where is this option?
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-27 18:20
It's not a user option. It's a forum option.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-09 23:24 Edited 2009-07-09 23:27
Removed: the ability to change one's signature?

Oops, it's in Profile.

The requested URL /mwf/pageicons/user_profile.png was not found on this server.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-09 23:36

> user_profile.png


Added.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-10 02:44
Why are smilies too dark unless I hover over them? (I guess it's because of the black background?)
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-10 07:40
They look the same as just before the update.
Parent - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-07-10 08:07
They do now, thanks :smile:
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-10 14:04 Edited 2009-07-10 14:08

> Added: Topic-level reply button.


Bug: the post you're replying to is already [age of OP] old. Are you sure that you want to reply to a post that old?

Methinks it should be [age of newest post in thread]. Also, you get the "in response to" thing after telling the software you have a good reason.
Parent - By keoki010 (Bronze) [us] Date 2009-07-10 18:50
I agree. It turned me off on using that topic reply.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-10 18:58
I have removed this warning for the time being.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-07-23 16:37
http://rybkaforum.net/mwf/pageicons/image_show.png is missing.
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-07-23 17:10
Thanks. Added.
Up Topic Forum Assistance & Feedback / Questions or Suggestions Related to the Forum / Forum software updated to version 2.19
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