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Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Correspondence Chess / Relay Chess: H1N1 Junkies Vs. NATIONAL12 & Vempele 1/2-1/2
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Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-13 06:56
Aha! Must be the endgame around move 30, then. :)
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-13 07:06
Well even if the eval's are near ~0.15 I would not feel comfortable with black's endgame choices. Good thing you guys have a decent OTB player on your team because chess engines are caca in some of these positions for black, white on the other hand has a fairly easy game to draw if not win.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-12 12:53
12...Nf5
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-12 14:11
Weird, I got a post reply notification for this post.
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-12 14:15
weird indeed.i cant find any great problems in this line.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-12 14:43
Or any problems at all, for that matter.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-13 00:47
Good, yep that is right boys:) Black is safe and sound, so no worries right? ;)
Parent - By Dadi Jonsson (Silver) [is] Date 2009-05-12 15:05
It was posted as a reply to discussion about the previous move and then promoted to this level.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-12 22:19
maybe it is a secret message trying to explain we have a won game.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-13 06:51
13.0-0-0

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13.0-0-0

r3k2r/pp1qppbp/2np2p1/4Pn2/Q4P2/2N2N1P/PPPB2P1/2KR3R b kq - 6 13
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-13 07:14
13....dxe5

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13.0-0-0 dxe5
r3k2r/pp1qppbp/2n3p1/4pn2/Q4P2/2N2N1P/PPPB2P1/2KR3R w kq - 0 14
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-13 09:35
14.Rhe1

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1

r3k2r/pp1qppbp/2n3p1/4pn2/Q4P2/2N2N1P/PPPB2P1/2KRR3 b kq - 0 14
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-13 10:34
Whew! I was sweating that you might play g4 and toss my analysis in the dumpster. Good Job!
Parent - - By punter11235 (**) [pl] Date 2009-05-13 10:35
Interesting position. Was 11.Qa4 a novelty (in the sense no human played it) ?
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-13 10:48 Edited 2009-05-13 10:54

> Was 11.Qa4 a novelty


Nope, not to me. It is not a novelty because there was not massive amounts of theory in the position supporting another move. I also do not think it leaves white with a clear advantage/win.  It does however suit my playing style well :)
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-13 11:48
came as a suprise to me as well,but as you say there wasent much AN or games played in other moves either.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-13 15:00
14...Nfd4
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-14 04:15
15.Be3

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1 Nfd4 15.Be3

r3k2r/pp1qppbp/2n3p1/4p3/Q2n1P2/2N1BN1P/PPP3P1/2KRR3 b kq - 3 15
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-14 08:58
15...Rd8
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-14 23:35
I hope to not disappoint, if there's a move better than this I cannot find it with my current analysis method, so:

16.fxe5

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1 Nfd4 15. Be3 Rd8
16. fxe5

3rk2r/pp1qppbp/2n3p1/4P3/Q2n4/2N1BN1P/PPP3P1/2KRR3 b k -
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-14 23:39
I like it just fine. Also Nxe5 was playable(At higher depths Rybka preferred it) but I actually prefer your move(Naum4 liked it), it gives me the instant draw button if I need it.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-14 23:53
16...b5
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-14 23:55
did not know you had Naum 4.its a good program.whats your opinion.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 00:03
I bought Naum about 3 months ago when I upgraded to a Q9650 chip. I think it is only a good engine at higher depths, at blitz or low depths it is not very good compared against Rybka. I think it can be used next to Rybka in long time controls like this one but at that point they are almost identical engines.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 00:09
i have only used it at long time controls and found it to be very attacking in the opening and early middle game then Rybka takes over untill endgame when Naum again appears to play well.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 02:36
17.Qa6

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1 Nfd4 15. Be3 Rd8
16. fxe5 b5 17.Qa6
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-15 03:42
17...Nb4
Parent - - By punter11235 (**) [pl] Date 2009-05-15 06:08
Just to provoke some discussion : white is much better now right ? I mean this endgame with 2N's vs rook seems to be better than rybka thinks (at least mine shallow rybka 3).
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 06:16
Who knows, I would not say so if I knew anyways. I am not going to give anything away to the other team.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-15 09:18

> I mean this endgame with 2N's vs rook


On an open board.

Can't say more than the obvious without breaking the communication rule. :)
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 09:37

> On an open board.


Does that mean you prefer blacks position? If you had to pick which side to play in an OTB game who would you choose?
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-15 11:59
White.
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-15 06:10
18.Qa3
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 08:10
18...Nbxc2
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 08:43
19.Rxd4

1. e4 g6 2. d4 d6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. f4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c5 6. Bb5+
Bd7 7. e5 Ng4 8. Bxd7+ Qxd7 9. h3 cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qa4
Nh6 12. Bd2 Nf5 13. O-O-O dxe5 14. Rhe1 Nfd4 15. Be3 Rd8
16. fxe5 b5 17.Qa6 Nb4 18.Qa3 Nbxc2 19.Rxd4

3rk2r/p2qppbp/6p1/1p2P3/3R4/Q1N1BN1P/PPn3P1/2K1R3 b k - 0 19
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 09:04
Rybka thinks the H1N1 junkies are winning by about 11 centi pawns both games combined. That is of course by my analysis and if the moves I think will be played are played. :)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 10:54
i make it the other way round,with Nat12 and Vempele winning by 15 centipawns in my AN.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 19:34 Edited 2009-05-15 20:00
Ohhhh, goodie that means I have a surprise coming soon. I can't hardly wait, I love surprises :) :) :)
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 21:08
looks like i wont get much sleep tonight,worrying about this.
Parent - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 22:05 Edited 2009-05-15 22:08
LOL, I just re-read my statement. It sounds like I am saying that "I have a surprise for you" but I meant it to be understood as "You have a surprise for me". You should not worry, I am seeing the same things you are except in the case of the other game, where I apparently think you are much weaker then you are making it sound.

At my current analysis both game for white are scored less then 0.20 (Except by Naum) and neither team is losing with white. I think Rybka has whites chances in this game underestimated and I think that Rybka is confused but ultimately understanding the other game.
Parent - - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-15 18:29
19...Nxa3
Parent - - By Uly (Gold) [mx] Date 2009-05-15 22:17
20.Rxd7
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 22:22
20...Rxd7
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 22:28 Edited 2009-05-15 22:47
21.bxa3  
Parent - By Vempele (Silver) [fi] Date 2009-05-16 14:42
21...O-O
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 22:21
we are perfectly ok in both games,my eval of this game is 0.08.in game 2 we still hold the edge but i must admit i am expecting 2 draws.
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 22:30

> my eval of this game is 0.08


Close enough, it really depends on what position and what depth you are looking at. For days now I have been looking past this position because it was easy to predict due to the high amount of forced moves. Now we are in a unbalanced material endgame, Vytron and myself have experience here at these time controls. I am not sure if you guys have ever played this type of position?
Parent - - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 23:16
my eval is 0.10 probably same as yours
Parent - - By Bobby C (****) Date 2009-05-15 23:26
That is Rybka's eval, other engines have it worse for black. I like this endgame for white that is why I played Qa4, I can not say why but I think Rybka might be under estimating white's strength here. Might be a draw but sadly I think I pushed us into a very long endgame with several possible ways to play.
Parent - By NATIONAL12 (Gold) [gb] Date 2009-05-15 23:32
no probs,i dont just use R3.quite happy to go into a long endgame until TBS put a stop to it.
Up Topic The Rybka Lounge / Correspondence Chess / Relay Chess: H1N1 Junkies Vs. NATIONAL12 & Vempele 1/2-1/2
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