well done for doing this. Poor Shredder is only on 1/3 after all this time!
I like the way Junior is playing
I like the way Junior is playing
It is too early to say anything really. Some slow starters faced tougher opposition in first rounds etc. I watched only Junior's 1st game against Shredder, and it rocks! I'll check now the other 2, before round 4 starts. I only hope someone will post the game progress here.
My impressions on Junior play so far ... well, it won Round 2 game with white v Toga, playing Poissoned Pawn famous e5 variation, and although Toga stayed in the book longer by some 5-6 moves, came out only equal or so. IMHO Junior didn't choose the optimal line. Anyway, Toga soon blunders, and it is all over against such a tactical monster.
Round 3 game v Jonny went quite good for Jonny, coming an exchange for a pawn up, but then Junior plays some moves other engines wouldn't even consider for seriously (...g4!) which slowly degenerate Jonny's King safety. And soon goes a punch. Ending played weirdly, not optimal, by Junior.
All in all, it is a good old Junior, whatever that means. :-)
Unpredictable!
Round 3 game v Jonny went quite good for Jonny, coming an exchange for a pawn up, but then Junior plays some moves other engines wouldn't even consider for seriously (...g4!) which slowly degenerate Jonny's King safety. And soon goes a punch. Ending played weirdly, not optimal, by Junior.
All in all, it is a good old Junior, whatever that means. :-)
Unpredictable!
I like the way Junior is playing
Maybe we will see a tough final. Junior is playing Rybka in the last round with white! And in the round before, Rybka has to beat Hiarcs with white.
PS: Maybe Shredder is the only engine making a draw against the new WCCC Junior (8.5/9)! :-)
Maybe we will see a tough final. Junior is playing Rybka in the last round with white! And in the round before, Rybka has to beat Hiarcs with white.
PS: Maybe Shredder is the only engine making a draw against the new WCCC Junior (8.5/9)! :-)
No way. I am pretty sure, from what I've seen so far, that Junior will be outplayed by R3, on account of many small mistakes.
Okay, but I have seen one big mistake from R3 (Qxf6)! She was lucky (?), that this mistake didn´t throw away the win. It´s like a dance on a razor blade.
You have a point there.
Anyway, still nothing from Beijing tonight. Games shoud have started 10 minutes ago, right? Shredder live is dead, too.
So, noone to transmit Rybka game from Playchess?
That bug was fixed
Nice flag. :-) Say "hi" to my girlfriend if you see her. :-)
from: http://www.hiarcs.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1677&start=60
[Event "95'/60+30'"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.09.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka 3"]
[Black "Jonny"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "55"]
[TimeControl "60/5700:0/0:1800"]
{319MB, BeijingA.ctg} 1. e4 {B/0 0} e5 {7} 2. Nf3 {B/0 0} Nc6 {7} 3. Bb5 {B/0 0
} a6 {6} 4. Ba4 {B/0 0} Nf6 {6} 5. O-O {B/0 0} Be7 {6} 6. d3 {B/0 0} b5 {6} 7.
Bb3 {B/0 0} O-O {7} 8. a4 {B/0 0} Bb7 {7} 9. Re1 {B/0 0} Re8 {7} 10. c3 {B/0 0}
Bc5 {644} 11. Bd2 {0.35/20 324} h6 {553} 12. Na3 {0.34/21 1} Qb8 {10} 13. Nh4 {
0.46/18 166} d6 {280} 14. Qf3 {0.94/18 205} b4 {31} 15. Nf5 {1.55/18 64} Bc8 {
251} 16. Nxh6+ {1.73/18 1} Kh7 {633} 17. Bxf7 {1.78/17 61} Rf8 {101} 18. Nc4 {
1.81/18 1} bxc3 {647} 19. bxc3 {1.83/17 39} Kh8 {97} 20. d4 {3.14/18 138} Bxd4
{315} 21. Bg5 {3.69/16 32} Nh7 {99} 22. cxd4 {4.01/17 1} Be6 {230} 23. Qh5 {5.
12/19 1} Bxf7 {102} 24. Nxf7+ {4.57/14 12} Kg8 {36} 25. Nh6+ {5.01/17 45} Kh8 {
11} 26. dxe5 {5.08/20 141} Qe8 {11} 27. Qh3 {5.41/20 137} Nxe5 {16} 28. Nxe5 {
5.36/16 26} 1-0
[Event "95'/60+30'"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2008.09.30"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rybka 3"]
[Black "Jonny"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "55"]
[TimeControl "60/5700:0/0:1800"]
{319MB, BeijingA.ctg} 1. e4 {B/0 0} e5 {7} 2. Nf3 {B/0 0} Nc6 {7} 3. Bb5 {B/0 0
} a6 {6} 4. Ba4 {B/0 0} Nf6 {6} 5. O-O {B/0 0} Be7 {6} 6. d3 {B/0 0} b5 {6} 7.
Bb3 {B/0 0} O-O {7} 8. a4 {B/0 0} Bb7 {7} 9. Re1 {B/0 0} Re8 {7} 10. c3 {B/0 0}
Bc5 {644} 11. Bd2 {0.35/20 324} h6 {553} 12. Na3 {0.34/21 1} Qb8 {10} 13. Nh4 {
0.46/18 166} d6 {280} 14. Qf3 {0.94/18 205} b4 {31} 15. Nf5 {1.55/18 64} Bc8 {
251} 16. Nxh6+ {1.73/18 1} Kh7 {633} 17. Bxf7 {1.78/17 61} Rf8 {101} 18. Nc4 {
1.81/18 1} bxc3 {647} 19. bxc3 {1.83/17 39} Kh8 {97} 20. d4 {3.14/18 138} Bxd4
{315} 21. Bg5 {3.69/16 32} Nh7 {99} 22. cxd4 {4.01/17 1} Be6 {230} 23. Qh5 {5.
12/19 1} Bxf7 {102} 24. Nxf7+ {4.57/14 12} Kg8 {36} 25. Nh6+ {5.01/17 45} Kh8 {
11} 26. dxe5 {5.08/20 141} Qe8 {11} 27. Qh3 {5.41/20 137} Nxe5 {16} 28. Nxe5 {
5.36/16 26} 1-0
A STUNNING game. What I want to know is - was 13Nh4 in book or not?
Looking at the game above the answer is NO.
That move was thought & played by rybka.
Mark
That move was thought & played by rybka.
Mark
Hi Jeroen
Is it not possible to talk to the WCCC organizers, and tell them to change the outcome of the game, where Rybka lost on time in a winning position, with a mate in 12 moves?
Damir
Is it not possible to talk to the WCCC organizers, and tell them to change the outcome of the game, where Rybka lost on time in a winning position, with a mate in 12 moves?
Damir
Yes sure and also the one where Hiarcs had mate in 8 against Jonny and lost on time. This is the blitz tourny and the rules are the rules.
either an increment or direct tranmission of the moves without board, so that luck and the human is not such a big factor
In an ideal world you are right. The blitz tourny is a bit of fun and a lot of fun to play - great sportsmanship shown by all - including Hans after he played with Fritz 5.32 in r1. btw - all those using remote use F 5.32 as you have to load something else before loading your remote engine - and as fritz does not pre-load tbs this is the obvious choice to save time.
I just noticed that the sentence in my last post was not finished :)
There are also some advantages with those rules, it's good that the chance for the weaker programs is better because of those rules. And even if Sjeng is not as strong as Rybka, it's a strong program and the victory is not undeserved.
There are also some advantages with those rules, it's good that the chance for the weaker programs is better because of those rules. And even if Sjeng is not as strong as Rybka, it's a strong program and the victory is not undeserved.
Hm, who copied the schedule into this thread!? It wasn't me..... Anyway, thanks to Harvey for publishing the whole schedule.
R4 games
Baron v Sjeng 1/2-1/2
Hiarcs v Mobile 1-0
Junior v falcon 1/2-1/2
Rybka v Jonny 1-0
Shredder v Toga 1/2-1/2
Standings after round 4
1. Rybka, Hiarcs 3.5
3. Junior 3.0
4. Sjeng 2.5
5. The Baron 2.0
6. Shredder, Cluster Toga, Falcon 1.5
9. Jonny 1.0
10. Mobile Chess 0.0
Wednesday round (starting 4:00 Central Eurpean time, 22:00 NY time):
R5 games
Toga v The baron
jonny v Shredder
falcon v rybka
mobile v junior
sjeng v hiarcs
Remaining rounds:
R6 games
baron v hiarcs
junior v sjeng
rybka v mobile
shredder v falcon
toga v jonny
R7 games
jonny v baron
falcon v toga
mobile v shredder
sjeng v rybka
hiarcs v junior
r8 games
baron v junior
rybka v hiarcs
shredder v sjeng
toga v mobile
jonny v falcon
r9 games
falcon v the baron
mobile v jonny
sjeng v toga
hiarcs v shredder
junior v rybka
R4 games
Baron v Sjeng 1/2-1/2
Hiarcs v Mobile 1-0
Junior v falcon 1/2-1/2
Rybka v Jonny 1-0
Shredder v Toga 1/2-1/2
Standings after round 4
1. Rybka, Hiarcs 3.5
3. Junior 3.0
4. Sjeng 2.5
5. The Baron 2.0
6. Shredder, Cluster Toga, Falcon 1.5
9. Jonny 1.0
10. Mobile Chess 0.0
Wednesday round (starting 4:00 Central Eurpean time, 22:00 NY time):
R5 games
Toga v The baron
jonny v Shredder
falcon v rybka
mobile v junior
sjeng v hiarcs
Remaining rounds:
R6 games
baron v hiarcs
junior v sjeng
rybka v mobile
shredder v falcon
toga v jonny
R7 games
jonny v baron
falcon v toga
mobile v shredder
sjeng v rybka
hiarcs v junior
r8 games
baron v junior
rybka v hiarcs
shredder v sjeng
toga v mobile
jonny v falcon
r9 games
falcon v the baron
mobile v jonny
sjeng v toga
hiarcs v shredder
junior v rybka
Thanks Jeroen. I noted hamsters have a decent coverage on their forum, thanks to Harvey being there actually. One thing though, their standing after round 4 is: Hiarcs, Rybka 3.5 ..., easily neglecting the fact that Hiarcs faced an order of magnitude weaker opponents so far. :-)
> ... their standing after round 4 is: Hiarcs, Rybka 3.5 ..., easily neglecting the fact that Hiarcs faced an order of magnitude weaker opponents so far.
What do you want them to do? This is the score. It has been reported correctly. And Rybka also has some strong opponents left (Hiarcs, Sjeng).
According to SB criteria, Rybka has 5.25 and Hiarcs 3.25 SB points, so Rybka should be first.
> ... so Rybka should be first.
She will be, don't worry. Unless she loses against the Phone tomorrow ;)
It was me. I also added a note to inform you about it :) you should have seen one at the start page of our forum...
Ah yes, now I remember :-).
R5 games
Toga v The baron 1-0
jonny v Shredder 1/2-1/2
falcon v rybka 0-1
mobile v junior 0-1
sjeng v hiarcs 0-1
Standings after round 5:
1. Rybka, Hiarcs 4.5
3. Junior 4.0
4. Cluster Toga, Sjeng 2.5
6. Shredder, The Baron 2.0
8. Jonny, Falcon 1.5
10. Mobile Chess 0.0
What's more today
Blitz World championship
Next round (on Friday, Thursday is a free day:
R6 games
baron v hiarcs
junior v sjeng
rybka v mobile
shredder v falcon
toga v jonny
Toga v The baron 1-0
jonny v Shredder 1/2-1/2
falcon v rybka 0-1
mobile v junior 0-1
sjeng v hiarcs 0-1
Standings after round 5:
1. Rybka, Hiarcs 4.5
3. Junior 4.0
4. Cluster Toga, Sjeng 2.5
6. Shredder, The Baron 2.0
8. Jonny, Falcon 1.5
10. Mobile Chess 0.0
What's more today
Blitz World championship
Next round (on Friday, Thursday is a free day:
R6 games
baron v hiarcs
junior v sjeng
rybka v mobile
shredder v falcon
toga v jonny
Jeroen, do you have a special gambit book for the game against the mobile? I mean Rybka should win the title for winning the quickest game against the mobile :)
Here's the hardware as reported on ICGA. Couple of things catch my eye: GCP has only 2.8 on his quad? Hell, even I got mine 24/7 stable up to 3.15 on air, without knowing anything what's in the box! Also, Israeli Falcon is on mere 2x2.1 Core 2 Duo?? This is considered below entry-level PC for mass market even here in Croatia, where everything is SO EXPENSIVE and SO OUT-OF-DATE for no reason at all!
Rank Program Origin Hardware
1 Rybka USA Cluster, 40 cores
2 Hiarcs GBR Intel Skulltrail, 8 x 4Ghz
3 Sjeng BEL Intel Core 2, 4 x 2.8Ghz
4 Junior ISR Intel Dunnington, 12 x 2.67Ghz
5 The Baron NLD AMD Opteron 270, 4 x 2Ghz
6 Jonny DEU Cluster, 16 cores
7 Cluster Toga DEU Cluster, 24 cores
8 Shredder DEU Intel Core 2, 8 x 3.16Ghz
9 Falcon ISR Intel Core 2, 2 x 2.1Ghz
10 Mobile Chess CHN Nokia 6120c
Rank Program Origin Hardware
1 Rybka USA Cluster, 40 cores
2 Hiarcs GBR Intel Skulltrail, 8 x 4Ghz
3 Sjeng BEL Intel Core 2, 4 x 2.8Ghz
4 Junior ISR Intel Dunnington, 12 x 2.67Ghz
5 The Baron NLD AMD Opteron 270, 4 x 2Ghz
6 Jonny DEU Cluster, 16 cores
7 Cluster Toga DEU Cluster, 24 cores
8 Shredder DEU Intel Core 2, 8 x 3.16Ghz
9 Falcon ISR Intel Core 2, 2 x 2.1Ghz
10 Mobile Chess CHN Nokia 6120c
Also Junior's hardware is interesting, 2x a 6 core cpu.
Yes, what is this Donnington? This a new Intel brand? Like Core7 or whatever it is called?
Edit: it is a Dunnington???
Edit: it is a Dunnington???
that's the new Intel 6 core cpu, planned to be released later this year.
Its already been released. Its very expensive though, so I doubt many here will be using it.
Regards,
Alan
Regards,
Alan
Yes, that is interesting. Someone told me in another thread that these were only supported in a four socket motherboard configuration.
Regards,
Alan
Regards,
Alan
> Also Junior's hardware is interesting, 2x a 6 core cpu.
fairly low clock speed though
Hans' report from sunday:
Sunday 28:
At 8:30 the bus brought us to the venue. I have no idea why we couldn't play in the hotel. The tournamenthall was on the premises of a golfcomplex. When they built the fence, it never crossed their minds that one day a bus may have to go through. To reach the complex they made a bumpy, sandroad to avoid the gate. In the building they changed a room into a sort of collegeroom. They put about 30 computers there in 3 rows of 10 very close together, plus some loose internetcables for those persons with a laptop. Half of the cables was not plugged in though. There also was no room for it in the router. The cables that were plugged in had internetcrashes sometimes after 10 seconds. We didn't have much time to think about it, because we were expected outside for the opening. The organisation had rounded up three busloads of chinese extra's, to clap their hands during the speeches. I have never seen so many people at a tournament, who clearly weren't interested in computers. Later, already half an hour passed the first round startingtime, we continued the playermeeting. After that, David Levy asked who wanted to play an exhibition game against the top chinese women grandmaster. Five fingers quickly went up, but since Rybka is the current titleholder, I was chosen. This lady, Gu Xiao Bing, was also the interviewer for the chinese television. When she interviewed me en heard who her opponent was, she looked startled and said, "Ribbèca, I always lose". She lost indeed 2-0, but her first game wasn't bad. Back to the tournamenthall, where the long wait began. Finally they found someone with knowledge about computers, who was able to 'pimp up' the internet in such a way, that our chinese host didn't have to execute a ritual suicide out of shame. Only 4½ hours late we started the first round. We decided to skip the second. All programs connected to the internet had 2 to 6 crashes. But luckily it was not of real influence to the game. I am curious what tomorrow will bring.
_________________
Sunday 28:
At 8:30 the bus brought us to the venue. I have no idea why we couldn't play in the hotel. The tournamenthall was on the premises of a golfcomplex. When they built the fence, it never crossed their minds that one day a bus may have to go through. To reach the complex they made a bumpy, sandroad to avoid the gate. In the building they changed a room into a sort of collegeroom. They put about 30 computers there in 3 rows of 10 very close together, plus some loose internetcables for those persons with a laptop. Half of the cables was not plugged in though. There also was no room for it in the router. The cables that were plugged in had internetcrashes sometimes after 10 seconds. We didn't have much time to think about it, because we were expected outside for the opening. The organisation had rounded up three busloads of chinese extra's, to clap their hands during the speeches. I have never seen so many people at a tournament, who clearly weren't interested in computers. Later, already half an hour passed the first round startingtime, we continued the playermeeting. After that, David Levy asked who wanted to play an exhibition game against the top chinese women grandmaster. Five fingers quickly went up, but since Rybka is the current titleholder, I was chosen. This lady, Gu Xiao Bing, was also the interviewer for the chinese television. When she interviewed me en heard who her opponent was, she looked startled and said, "Ribbèca, I always lose". She lost indeed 2-0, but her first game wasn't bad. Back to the tournamenthall, where the long wait began. Finally they found someone with knowledge about computers, who was able to 'pimp up' the internet in such a way, that our chinese host didn't have to execute a ritual suicide out of shame. Only 4½ hours late we started the first round. We decided to skip the second. All programs connected to the internet had 2 to 6 crashes. But luckily it was not of real influence to the game. I am curious what tomorrow will bring.
_________________
It is interesting to note how a poor internet connection can crash an engine. I noticed that a lot on Playchess when I have poor internet connectivity. I am not sure if it is the GUI that crashes or the internet. Last 3 months I have had the most unbeleivably poor internet connection possible. I pay around $300 a month for what is supposed to be a 1mb DSL connection and I am happy when I get 96kbps. Also the lag is so bad that I have given up playing rated games on Playchess due to the large amount of profanities I have had to endure ... somehow people think that when you have a poor internet connection then you are somehow taking advantage. Nothing could be further from the truth as I always gain at least 200 ELO points when I play on Playchess from Europe or the US.
Having said that, I think that really there should be an overhaul of how these tournaments are run. Chess is made for the internet ... I think the internet coverage of this WCCC has been nothing short of criminal. By far the most important thing is the live broadcasting of games and you would think that in 2008 we would get live moves + some sort of live video. There is really no excuse for not having a decent internet connection, and I for one am very disappointed. These tournaments don't happen very often and it would be great to be able to follow them live and get a real feel of the games.
Having said that, I think that really there should be an overhaul of how these tournaments are run. Chess is made for the internet ... I think the internet coverage of this WCCC has been nothing short of criminal. By far the most important thing is the live broadcasting of games and you would think that in 2008 we would get live moves + some sort of live video. There is really no excuse for not having a decent internet connection, and I for one am very disappointed. These tournaments don't happen very often and it would be great to be able to follow them live and get a real feel of the games.
I fully agree: it's unbelievable how amateur-like these "organizers" act on a world-championship! :-(
Well in fact the internet connection is now much better as they play in the hotel. Yesterday and today we had not a single disconnect. But I agree - a live coverage would be great. But some games have been brodcasted on Playchess.
> I pay around $300 a month for what is supposed to be a 1mb DSL connection and I am happy when I get 96kbps
This is tooooooooooooo much expensive.
Here in Pakistan 1 Mb DSL connection could easily be obtained in 30$ per month . Really !.
and monday... why isn't he posting in our forum?! :) :
Monday 29:
The previous evening we held a playermeeting, in which it was decided to try to play in the hotel. Harvey would try to make his Mac function as a wireless router. When it seemed not to work, I decided to go back to my room. Next day I got into the bus and 1 minute before departure someone asked me if I shouldn't be playing in the hotel. Apparantly Harvey made it work after all and nobody told me. The things they try to prevent Rybka from winning the tournament. There was a beautiful room available where 10 programs had more than enough room. And more important; not one internetcrash in 2 rounds. And a beautiful view at the lake and smog. In the lunchbreak I ordered a fruitsalad. It consisted of 2 types of melon and some tomato's. There are some strange things going on with the food. They don't know bread, but for us europeans they made
something looking like bread. Too bad it all tastes sweet. At breakfast the
orange and pineapplejuice are hot. If you order a juice in the hotel you get a whole liter. It took some days before the beer was finally cold enough to the taste of a foreigner. Stefan (Shredder) and I ordered a coke and got 1½ liter both. And I expect to encounter some more funny things the next days. Now that we played in the hotel, I finally had the time to visit the masseuse. It was a sort of chinese torture, but the doctor says I am able to play tomorrow.
Monday 29:
The previous evening we held a playermeeting, in which it was decided to try to play in the hotel. Harvey would try to make his Mac function as a wireless router. When it seemed not to work, I decided to go back to my room. Next day I got into the bus and 1 minute before departure someone asked me if I shouldn't be playing in the hotel. Apparantly Harvey made it work after all and nobody told me. The things they try to prevent Rybka from winning the tournament. There was a beautiful room available where 10 programs had more than enough room. And more important; not one internetcrash in 2 rounds. And a beautiful view at the lake and smog. In the lunchbreak I ordered a fruitsalad. It consisted of 2 types of melon and some tomato's. There are some strange things going on with the food. They don't know bread, but for us europeans they made
something looking like bread. Too bad it all tastes sweet. At breakfast the
orange and pineapplejuice are hot. If you order a juice in the hotel you get a whole liter. It took some days before the beer was finally cold enough to the taste of a foreigner. Stefan (Shredder) and I ordered a coke and got 1½ liter both. And I expect to encounter some more funny things the next days. Now that we played in the hotel, I finally had the time to visit the masseuse. It was a sort of chinese torture, but the doctor says I am able to play tomorrow.
They don't know bread, but for us europeans they made something looking like bread. Too bad it all tastes sweet.
Tell him not to worry about the sweet taste. That's probably just the melamine.
Regards,
Alan
Tell him not to worry about the sweet taste. That's probably just the melamine.
Regards,
Alan
Any thoughts on why Rybka is not performing (on 40 cores) as well as HIARCS is performing (on 8 cores)?
who says Hiarcs is performing better?
From the games I have looked at and bearing in mind the relative hardware difference - this is how it looks to me.
I think those few games tell you not much.
we will see in round 8 that's where the title will be won :)
Not interested in titles (especially this one where the playing platform is skewed) - I'm interested in the quality of chess being played - my point still stands I feel - HIARCS on 8-cores appears to me to be more or less in the same ball-park as RYBKA on 40-cores - why is that - this certainly is not what I expected.
Unless you are at least 2700 FIDE (and even then!), you are not able to spot subtle differences in the play of 3100-3250 ELO engines, and especially comparing one to another.
I can tell.
I do have a high OTB rating but this is not essential - I can see very clear evidence from the moves played by both the HIARCS and RYBKA engines to suggest that there levels of chess comprehension are very similar in so many ways - it would be interesting for those who have both engines to see how often they select the same move given the same position - I suspect there would be a high incidence of this occurring.
The main point I raise is that given the enormous hardware difference, the difference between the two engines doesn't seem that great - I would have thought the recent blitz tournament would indicate this more eloquently than I can put in to words.
I do have a high OTB rating but this is not essential - I can see very clear evidence from the moves played by both the HIARCS and RYBKA engines to suggest that there levels of chess comprehension are very similar in so many ways - it would be interesting for those who have both engines to see how often they select the same move given the same position - I suspect there would be a high incidence of this occurring.
The main point I raise is that given the enormous hardware difference, the difference between the two engines doesn't seem that great - I would have thought the recent blitz tournament would indicate this more eloquently than I can put in to words.
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